Oldies Vs New Games

[Mareus Durante]

Hello everyone. I am new here and I didn't know how to introduce myself so here is a thread to see how you people are breathing. I have been searching for a good game forum, with people who know a thing or two about games. Tried RPGCodex recently and although some of them really know their games, you can expect your ass to get flamed for using smileys or mistyping... so let's hope it's different here and that I will be able to have a coherent gaming discussion here.

Now to the thread...

I have been playing games since I was 4 years old and you could say that there are very few titles worth mentioning that I didn't play. However in the last few years I have been having trouble making myself play anything for very long. At first I thought the years have finally caught up with me and that I was starting to grow up. I tried playing games like Gothic 3, Titan Quest, Oblivion, Bioshock, Stalker, Heroes of Might and Magic V, Fear, ... Needless to say, not one of those titles did I finish.

Then one day i got myself NWN2. I started playing it and after a very long time I started to have fun again. Sure, it had issues. Sure, it was not good as Baldur's Gate. Sure, the 3D camera annoyed me sometimes, but it was old school game that had everything I missed in games like Oblivion. That made me wonder, was I really growing up or do new games barely hit the average. Are old games really better or is it just nostalgia?

 

[narpet]

Welcome to the Watch! I think you will find that this is a great place to discuss CRPGs with a bunch of very intelligent, well spoken people... (yes, that's a compliment for all of you Watch'ers out there ).

That's a tough poll, considering that I too have played almost every CRPG made... and actually played them when they first came out.

So nostalgia does play a hand here... but I think I have to go with 1996 - 2001. Example: I'm playing Might and Magic VII right now, which I think was from around 1999... and it's a great game.

Each of those periods has had some great games... but in my opinion our current gaming "era" has less great games than past "eras"... just my opinion.

 

[Mareus Durante]

Glad we agree on this point. Just a side note... this thread is not about RPG genre exclusively. I should have written that I guess. It's about games in general.

 

[narpet]

Glad we agree on this point. Just a side note... this thread is not about RPG genre exclusively. I should have written that I guess. It's about games in general.

I could tell that you were talking about games in general by some of the titles you listed in your first post... it's just that about 95% of my gaming time is spent playing CRPGs... so I always have RPG on the brain whenever I'm here.

 

[Lucky Day]

Much of the thrill of the 1996-2001 era of games was because of an attempt to duplicate the experience of RPGs and CRPGs of 80's. There's heavy nostalgia feels of BG, IWD, FO's, M&M's, Wizardy 8, as well as Morrowind and Diablo.

There were failures in this regard with Ultima 9 and the new Pool of Radiance but there are exceptions in System Shock and Dungeon Siege for example.

 

[Jaz]

Tough question... my favorites are spaced evenly between 1990 and 2001 (stopped having time to play pretty much anything new after that), but a gut feeling told me to pick the 1990-1995 option and the area of Catacomb 3D, W3D, Doom, Heretic, Hexen, LoL... my most-re/played games of all times. Though I might just as well have picked the following era and RotH.

 

[JDR13]

There were failures in this regard with Ultima 9 and the new Pool of Radiance but there are exceptions in System Shock and Dungeon Siege for example.

Eh? I was with you until "Dungeon Siege".

 

[Mareus Durante]

When I posted this thread I was having trouble deciding the answer myself. Still when I look at the quantity of great games published by those eras and taking into consideration the quality of the titles, somehow I had to go with 1996-2001. Unfortunately you can't make the poll options to everyones liking. For example, my favorite era is from 1994-2002, but I had to make options. Here are some great games from 1996-2001:
1996:
Red Alert
Tomb Raider
Masters of Orion II
Phantasmagoria II
Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain
Broken Sword 1
Civilization 2
Discworld 2
Toonstruck
Daggerfall
Heroes of Might and Magc II
Leisure Suit Larry 7
Settlers 2
Star Ocean
...etc... some great games... note the diversity between genres. I didn't put in the legendery shooters and some other games like Diablo, because I just don't like them, but still the diversity is there.

1997
Final Fantasy 7
Fallout
Age of Empires
Blade Runner (Adventure)
Broken Sword 2
The curse of Monkey Island
Grand Theft Auto
Ignition
Joint Strike Fighter
Little Big Adventure 2
MDK
Tomb Raider 2
Wing Commander 3
... I could go on... That does sound a great year. Just compare to the number of interesting titles coming out today.

1998
Baldur's Gate
Fallout 2
Grim Fandango
Half-Life
Hopkins-FBI
Metal Gear Solid (i think it was in 1998)
Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Might and Magic VI
Resident Evil 2
Sanitarium
Settlers III
StarCraft ( I think)
Thief
Tomb Raider III
Warhamer: Dark Omen
Commandos
...etc... Quite a lot of good games if you ask me.

1999
Age of Wonders
Sid Meier's: Alpha Centauri
Chrono Cross
Discworld Noir
Dungeon Keeper 2
Final Fantasy 8
GTA2
Heroes of Might and Magic 3
Jagged Alliance 2
The Longest Journey
Mech Warrior 3
Planescape Torment
Resident Evil 3
Rollcoaster Tycoon
Septerra Core
Silent Hill
System Shock 2
Ultima 9
Worms Armagedon
... phew... there is more, but... no time..

2000
Baldur's Gate 2
Deus Ex
Dino Crisis 2
Escape from Monkey Island
Final Fantasy 9
Hitman
Icewind Dale (i think it was this year..)
Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask
MDK2
The Sims (hey... it was original atleast)
Star Trek: Elite Force
Thief 2
Vagrant Story
Vampire the Masquarade: Redemtpion
...Still a good year but notice the diversity slowly disapearing...less adventures... more 3D... more shooters.

2001
Arcanum
Baldur's Gate: Throne of Bhaal
Black and White
Civilization 3
Final Fantasy 10
GTA 3
IL2-Sturmovik
Max Payne (it was really original back then)
Metal Gear Solid 2
Silent Hill 2
Zoo Tycoon
... there are more, but i m getting tired.
Anyway, just compare the list of great games comming out today. I mean today's shooters are getting better, but they don't offer anything new so I don't play them anymore. RTSes haven't offered anything revolutionary since Dune in 1992. They don't make anymore funny cartoonlike 2D adventure games. Hell, no more 2D isometric games either. RPGs are getting dumbed down to Oblivion level... God knows 3D camera has issues with party based games so even new games that could have been superb like NWN2 have the camera annoyence feature. Point is.. where is the diversity?

...Phew... that was one huge post.

 

[fatBastard()]

That made me wonder, was I really growing up or do new games barely hit the average. Are old games really better or is it just nostalgia?

This can be a pretty tricky issue. Have you tried replaying some of the golden oldies? Do they withstand the test of time?

I know I loved Star Wars as a kid and every time I watch the original trilogy as an adult I'm instantly filled with the wonder of seeing these great movies for the first time.

I also liked Knight Rider as a kid ... Blergh! That show is just too horrible to watch if I try to do so now. It was a phenomenon of the 80'ies and being a kid in the right age group made it enjoyable for me at that time, but not anymore.

When Jaz says that Hexen and Herectic and other games of that ilk are special to her, then believe it because she regularly replays them (I know of at least 2 replays within the last year and a half). Can you claim the same?

Personally, I can't decide what to vote for. I've been playing games since I was 12 years old. First on a C-64 from 85-89, then on an Amiga 500 from 89-93. In 93 I bought my first PC and last spring I bought my first console (a Xbox360 and a PS2). I still love playing games today so I don't really have a preferred era.

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Really difficult to say for me, since I came to copmputer gaming not earlier than the first half of the 90s.

But I have fond memories mostly of this age from the early 90s until the early new millennium.

Since then, nothing groundbreaking happened for my taste, which is to a huge part because the game genres I once loved have died out, more or less: Jump & Run, Adventures.

To RPGs I really came only in the last years of the 90s with Albion, Lands of Lore I and of course the Realms of Arcania Trilogy.

Divinity was kind of a milestone for me in terms of RPGing, and I admit that i played Blizzards D2 very much, too - until I kind of awoke like from an addiction-dream.

Since I've begun analysing the gameplay of D2 and LOD, I noticed how massively reduced it really is, up to the point of absolute minimalism, and that this collides HEAVILY with my ever since growing lust for stories.

Now, I want deep stories over everything else, something that appeals to me, like Indy and Atlantis, which still is and will ever be my personal favourite and cornerstone - at which everything else has to be measured, story-wise (and of course the whole athmosphere of the game: The mystery, the exploration, deep secrets ...).

 

[Remus]

Difficult for me to choose as well. But i would say the most thrilling gaming period was before 1996, simply because i just discovered the thrill of PC gaming!. It's like when the first time you discovered something new and awesome in live, like the first experience of love. I played Wolfenstein 3D, the first Warcraft, beside couples side scroller games.

After 1996, i'm mostly into RPGs like Baldur's Gate, Planescape: Torment and Fallout. It's also the period i spend almost my entire free time to PC gaming.

After 2004, due to limited free time, i started to go after only critically acclaimed games, instant classics, or titles that suggested by majority of gamers - whether it's CRPGs or not.

 

[Guest]

Hi, and welcome to the forums. I think you'll like it here.
Easy question for me. 1996-2001. Absolutely. Almost all of my faves are from that time perioid.

Second choice would be 1990-1995. Lots of classics there. On other platforms than PC too.

Last choice for me would be 2002-2008. Morrowind is the only truly wonderfull game that I can think of from that perioid. Bloodlines would also be worth mentioning. And you're right.. NWN2 was pretty good, especially the MOTB.

And it isn't just nostalgia.... I used to think so but after starting to play some games from the early to mid 90's that I had never played before I just noticed that damn.... the games really have gone downhill. Really.

 

[Mareus Durante]

This can be a pretty tricky issue. Have you tried replaying some of the golden oldies? Do they withstand the test of time?

Yep. I replayed Baldur's Gate Trilogy 2 months ago. It was better then ever! Replayed Final Fantasy 7 last year... Superb. Toonstruck... finished it a month ago and loved it. Heroes of Might and Magic, replayed it 6 months ago all except HOMM5 which is new and it sucked big time when i compared it to it's predessecors. Replayed Broken Sword a few weeks ago... GREAT! Little Big adventure 1 was a bit dissapointment because it was just too damn hard, but still beats the crap out of many new titles. Err... Fallout a year ago... was great. Mmm... Planescape Torment played it a 4 months ago (didn't finish it because I got distracted with some very important buisness, but it was better then ever. Its one of those games that gets better the older you are.)

 

[Guest]

Yep. I replayed Baldur's Gate Trilogy 2 months ago. It was better then ever! Replayed Final Fantasy 7 last year... Superb. Toonstruck... finished it a month ago and loved it. Heroes of Might and Magic, replayed it 6 months ago all except HOMM5 which is new and it sucked Big time when i compared it to it's predessecors. Replayed Broken Sword a few weeks ago... GREAT! Little Big adventure 1 was a bit dissapointment because it was just too damn hard, but still beats the crap out of many new titles. Err... Fallout a year ago... was great. Mmm... Planescape Torment played it a 4 months ago (didn't finish it because I got distracted with some very important buisness, but it was better then ever. Its one of those games that gets better the older you are.)

Yep. I agree with pretty much everything you just said.
Also, I played M&M3 for the first time last summer. And it truly was the first time for me, too (so no nostalgia coefficient). By modern standards - the graphics look like pixelated crap. The music is just repetitive annoying bleeping and the sounds are non-existent. And the interface is a clunky keyboard driven nightmare.

Still, It was the best gaming experience of the whole year for me.
I still remember the dungeons and the feeling and music of all the different towns.

 

[narpet]

Yep. I replayed Baldur's Gate Trilogy 2 months ago. It was better then ever! Replayed Final Fantasy 7 last year... Superb. Toonstruck... finished it a month ago and loved it. Heroes of Might and Magic, replayed it 6 months ago all except HOMM5 which is new and it sucked big time when i compared it to it's predessecors. Replayed Broken Sword a few weeks ago... GREAT! Little Big adventure 1 was a bit dissapointment because it was just too damn hard, but still beats the crap out of many new titles. Err... Fallout a year ago... was great. Mmm... Planescape Torment played it a 4 months ago (didn't finish it because I got distracted with some very important buisness, but it was better then ever. Its one of those games that gets better the older you are.)

I also frequently play the oldies... and the classics (at least the ones I see as classics) hold up no matter how old they are. To this day I can play Wasteland, Gold Box Games, Dragon Wars, Bard's Tale Games, Might and Magic Games... (and I could name so many more) and many, if not most of them are so much better than the meager offerings we have today.

Yes, today's games have all the bells and whistles you could hope for. But the games of old made you use your imagination. And if you haven't lost that skill, the old games are still great.

I think that's one possible drawback to our current and upcoming crop of games. They have become so realistic (regarding graphics and sound) that it's hard for us to use our imaginations like we would when reading a good book. We are more at the mercy of the artists and designers now. I'm not saying that's a completely bad thing, it's just that those old games allowed you to see the world and action of a game in your mind's eye, which could really make them much better than just the sum of their parts.

That's probably one of the reasons that I like Jeff Vogel's games so much. Avernum and Geneforge force you to use your imagination. And... wow... those game worlds are so amazing when you do use your imagination, along with the descriptions that Jeff provides.

 

[Guest]

I think I'm gonna try Dragon Wars and Wasteland this summer.
I have and interplay collection cd-rom that has them.
And I've heard many good things about em and you and I seem to like the same games quite often.

 

[magerette]

Welcome to the boards, Mareus. I particularly welcome you because I'm very fond of polls, and now I have some back-up. I'm also fond of smilies and people here are very forgiving of that.

I had to go with 1996-2001. That's the era I came to gaming, and those are still, with the exception of The Witcher, my favorite games: MOO2, HoMM3, Alpha Centauri, Might & Magic, PS:T, Arcanum, Gothic, etc. Post 2001 has seen some good games, and I'm sure pre 1996 also, but for me that's the top period.

 

[Guest]

I had to go with 1996-2001. That's the era I came to gaming, and those are still, with the exception of The Witcher, my favorite games: MOO2, HoMM3, Alpha Centauri, Might & Magic, PS:T, Arcanum, Gothic, etc. Post 2001 has seen some good games, and I'm sure pre 1996 also, but for me that's the top period.

Alpha Centauri! I love Alpha Centauri! Still waiting for a sequel that allows me to do those horrible war crimes and atrocities like sinking entire continents and causing environmental disasters with fusion bombs and committing genocide etc etc that the lesser games (civilization) haven't even touched! You've got an excellent taste

....
....


.... Alpha Centauri!!!111

 

[magerette]

Yes, Alpha Centauri is classic. I love this website, which has a lot of the quotes from Plato, Aristotle, Machiavelli and the faction leaders that gave the game such personality.

My favorite varies, but this one is kind of topical right now:

Fossil fuels in the last century reached their extreme prices because of their inherent utility: they pack a great deal of potential energy into an extremely efficient package. If we can but sidestep the 100 million year production process, we can corner this market once again.

CEO Nwabudike Morgan
Strategy Session

 

[Guest]

Damn I really loved that game. I have the expansion too.
Just started the damn game. Propably gonna have to play it again
sometime soon.