PC Gamer - Bioware and Sex

[Ripper]

I probably wouldn't bother if it was the straight up Westboro Baptist preacher hour - good old fashioned trolling. It's this new backdoor approach of pretending to be reasonable that I'm keen to expose as bollocks.

 

[Carnifex]

All this arguing over EA or Bioware or, worse yet, an Origin product. FFS, have some damn dignity.

 

[Arahael]

If they spent half the time they did doing romance and sex instead of fixing bugs, making a proper m&k controls and PC UI, perhaps there would not be 300.000 views and 3.400 replies just on their post ¨PC Community Concerns¨ in their forums. Constants crashes, game freezing, low fps even on high end pc, changing voices, incorrect decisions from the Keep, etc are all ¨concerns¨ apparently. There has been no official post in 11 days.
What really bothers me, and the main reason of my disappointment towards Bioware, is not the buggy mess that is DA:I but the total lack of feedback and information towards their customers. Even Ubisoft offered an apology for their mess (AC:U), kept people informed on their progress in Live Update and even went as far as offering free content. And Bioware?. Total blackout.
What a big disappointment Bioware. Keep your gay/straight/bi sex and instead give me a bug-free game that I can fully enjoy from release date.

 

[joxer]

Errr… Actually the game has less bugs than I've expected.
And when it comes to bugs and me…

- Yes it has crashes, but I believe they're related to forced 30FPS on cutscenes somehow. On my side the game crashed only on cutscenes. So? They'll patch it eventually, what's a big deal.
- Freezes? Never had any. You mean when your character is stuck? Just press F2-F4 and it'll do the unstuck. Or you mean when mouse click doesn't react on the war table? Just rightclick and it'll work then, or use ESC/SPACE/arrows like you'd be using a controller (just a sloppy code because the game *is* a console port Bioware lied that it's main platform is PC).
- For changing voices I've written how to avoid it.
- What incorrect decisions? I have yet to see one. Although I didn't finish the game so am not sure if I'll spot something different than my decision. If I do, I'll mention it. Should finish the game later today.


Ubisoft went completely wrong with Unity. "Season pass" is a scam business. They deciding in the end to cancel season pass was a proper move. And people don't need an apology, people need not to be scammed again.
If you mean bugs they still didn't get rid of completely, trust me, Ubi is not Bethesda. They will patch them, won't leave 500+ bugs in the game like Bethesda did.


And sorry, but you're just a troll. If you played the game, you wouldn't write any of that. In fact you'd state exactly what bug you found and where. And post a pic.

Like I'll do now. Just so you understand what kind of nitpicker I am:

On this spot (an arrow above the tent) you will find a quarry. And it's not displayed on the map while it should be (I have the perk for that). But another quarry that is displayed on the map (you can see it on the east part) doesn't get removed from the map when you claim it - and it should!
Must remind myself to report this onm EA answers HQ later… I bet noone else noticed this quarry that's not on the map.

Now this is not the only bugged thing in the game and you'll notice it only if you're alergic to bugs like I am.
But I still say the game is pretty polished and is definetly not bug-o-rama.
And honestly, DA3 and Risen3, both openworld with hundreds of quests and not many bugs, just prove that Bethesda deliberately decided not to fully patch their bug-o-rama but instead, invested millions in some bloody pathetic MMO.

 

[Ripper]

All this arguing over EA or Bioware or, worse yet, an Origin product. FFS, have some damn dignity.

Trust me, all the DRM platforms are ultimately as bad as each other - intrusive and peremptory.

Steam was monitoring DNS logs, and continues to scan your PC down to the kernel level to search for "cheats". If you care about control and privacy of your PC, you should boot to separate drive for gaming, so all these crappy "platforms" can do is monitor each other.

This business about EA and Origin being the bogeyman, compared to the others, is just a meme.

 

[Arahael]

So, people wrote 3400 replies and view that post 300.000 times just because they are all trolling? Apparently, according to you, people are both, mean and have a lot of free time. And trolling whom? Bioware is not posting in there.
Here is a list of all the bugs identified by the community so far.
http://forum.bioware.com/topic/522528-pc-community-bug-list-opinions/
Just because you haven't experienced them, it doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

[Kyrer]

If they dont listen and dont respect ideas and creative vision of devs.

Like your posts on this thread are respecting the ideas and creative vision of Bioware? Seriously, I'm not trying to be combative, and would even agree with you on the general point: Developers (or any other creative) shouldn't be the subject of censorship. Good art needs the room to express what it wants and needs to; the public can then make up it's own opinion. My opinion is that there's isn't really an issue here, other than the reactions of certain players.

I doubt that Charles Dickens did that.

So obviously, you have read neither his books, or even his wikipedia article:

Dickens's novels were, among other things, works of social commentary. He was a fierce critic of the poverty and social stratification of Victorian society. In a New York address, he expressed his belief that "Virtue shows quite as well in rags and patches as she does in purple and fine linen".[129] Dickens's second novel, Oliver Twist (1839), shocked readers with its images of poverty and crime: it destroyed middle class polemics about criminals, making impossible any pretence to ignorance about what poverty entailed.

If you aren't a reader, then this is a podcast that might also inform you. I'm must profess, I'm not a big reader of Dickens' novels, though I do know a fair amount about his life.

And the politicizing does exist, there are quotes out there from the developers out there to prove it.

The only people I've seen making this a "political" point are those who want to cause a fuss. Really, in this day and age, the inclusion of a gay character really shouldn't be a problem. Including a gay character is no more "political" than including a straight one; the only reason it's an issue is because certain players demand it becomes one.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

I probably wouldn't bother if it was the straight up Westboro Baptist preacher hour - good old fashioned trolling. It's this new backdoor approach of pretending to be reasonable that I'm keen to expose as bollocks.

I've never hidden who I am, my posts in politics and religions are there for anyone to investigate. In spite of it I strive to treat all with grace, humanity and respect.

But to me this is apples and oranges. Among those who think Bioware is going too far I am in the minority; most are what you would call "progressives" who see their hobby instrumentalized. Gaming itself has always been a refuge for those who didn't fit the norm. I'm not for whitewashing any aspect of the world that doesn't fit traditional society. In a huge part, this is the medium of the outcasts.

What is a whole other thing however, is Bioware developers and writers who go on and on about how they want to be inclusive and for diversity and whatnot, but who seemingly rub their agenda in people's faces instead of integrating it as a normal and banal part of the game, and most of all use it as a guise to cover for their own mediocrity and some of their questionable fetiches.

If you'll look at this scene from Dragon Age II, it's not even the fact that a same-sex romance scene is presented in a videogame that raises some eyebrows, it's that the writing is on the level of a sleazy Harlequin novel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Nbd1LCf4zg

There is a huge contingent of people on the "Bioware social" forum who have very weird fetishes and obsessions (not homosexuality) and the Bioware writers are taking them into account, hence why we have a character who is a "fan of BSDM" and other oddities. So we have people who are not even that huge fans of videogames in and of themselves dictating how content should be like.

 

[joxer]

Here is a list of all the bugs identified by the community so far.
http://forum.bioware.com/topic/522528-pc-community-bug-list-opinions/
Just because you haven't experienced them, it doesn't mean they don't exist.

You sure all bugs I've noticed are on that list? I assure you they're not.

And that list contains stuff that are not bugs per se. For example "Game freezing in main menu for some players", oh, yeah, now check their dxdiag report then compare it to minimum requirements.
I've had plenty of that crap on Sims 4 techincal forum where after several performance problem troubleshooting suggestions turns out people are trying to run the game on a toaster.

Bugs exist. It's just I learn the game and play the game. I don't just skip buying the game then hate it based on prejudices.

And I didn't say 8734569342659365 people are trolling, I said - *you* are trolling.
In any case I just finished with the game, so feel free to troll more. Maybe people who didn't play the game will listen to your trolls. Me… I'll return to your objections once you at least play through the first main quest.

I've never hidden who I am

But why would anyone care who you are?

You preach that Bioware is only about sex. And it's not.
There is an optional part in the game about sex, you can play it or skip it completely.
As I've said previously, it has nothing with the story nor will change the story anyhow, it's just a bonus content there for those who want it.
Don't tell me, you'd rather them cut it out and sell as DLC. Horse armor ain't enough.

 

[Ripper]

Among those who think Bioware is going too far I am in the minority; most are what you would call "progressives" who see their hobby instrumentalized.

How on Earth can you speak for and quantify the positions of these notional people?

Bioware developers and writers who go on and on about how they want to be inclusive and for diversity and whatnot, but who seemingly rub their agenda in people's faces

Bioware is in the business of providing people with an opportunity to roleplay and customize a character to suit their preferences; to allow them to interact and make consequential personal choices within their games. When they talk of maximizing diversity and inclusiveness, they are talking about maximizing these possibilities to suit the identities of as many customers as possible. This is a rational thing for them to do, and a USP for their marketing department. They do so in spite of pressure from political prejudice, not because of it.

You talk about their "rubbing their agenda in people's faces". I see no evidence for this. Ironically, the specific scene you linked to as Exhibit A only occurs if you clearly solicit it. This is hunting for outrage. Or possibly innocent curiosity.

There is a huge contingent of people on the "Bioware social" forum who have very weird fetishes and obsessions (not homosexuality) and the Bioware writers are taking them into account, hence why we have a character who is a "fan of BSDM" and other oddities. So we have people who are not even that huge fans of videogames in and of themselves dictating how content should be like.

First of all, once again, how do you imagine you know this? This is pure, unsupported assertion.

Secondly, I would draw your attention to the proper definition of a fetish. Given the specific fetishes of the theology you preach, you should not be inclined to scorn others for theirs. Particularly not ones to do with blood, whippings, etc…

Bioware's inclusion of the most diverse range of identities and tastes can be explained by straightforward artistic and commercial motivations - there is no need to invoke political prejudice to understand it.

You, on the other hand, have stated plainly that sodomy, and other sexual activities, are against the law of god, and that people will burn in hell as a consequence. You DO have a very clear, self-affirmed political prejudice, and it explains what we see here very well.

 

[Arahael]

You sure all bugs I've noticed are on that list? I assure you they're not.

And that list contains stuff that are not bugs per se. For example "Game freezing in main menu for some players", oh, yeah, now check their dxdiag report then compare it to minimum requirements.
I've had plenty of that crap on Sims 4 techincal forum where after several performance problem troubleshooting suggestions turns out people are trying to run the game on a toaster.

Bugs exist. It's just I learn the game and play the game. I don't just skip buying the game then hate it based on prejudices.

And I didn't say 8734569342659365 people are trolling, I said - *you* are trolling.
In any case I just finished with the game, so feel free to troll more. Maybe people who didn't play the game will listen to your trolls. Me… I'll return to your objections once you at least play through the first main quest.


But why would anyone care who you are?

You preach that Bioware is only about sex. And it's not.
There is an optional part in the game about sex, you can play it or skip it completely.
As I've said previously, it has nothing with the story nor will change the story anyhow, it's just a bonus content there for those who want it.
Don't tell me, you'd rather them cut it out and sell as DLC. Horse armor ain't enough.

I guess I could point to the fallacies in your argument, the false assumptions, I could show you a screenshot of Origin on my PC where it says how many hours I have played before deciding to wait for the patch, point you to different post on both EA and Bioware forums, even waste countless hours reproducing bugs and taking screenshot and making videos, compiling and uploading them, but I will not. Fortunately, my self-esteem is high enough that I don’t feel compelled to prove anything to random people on internet. Think and do what you want, and so will I. And I am waiting for the patch.

 

[Arkadia7]

Well, we obviously have some die-hard Bioware fanboys around, lol.

 

[Ripper]

Well, we obviously have some die-hard Bioware fanboys around, lol.

Yes, quite clearly the chief concern here is for the greater glory of Bioware's immaculate reputation. An impulse to confront poorly-disguised homophobia may creep in there somewhere, but mainly, you know, "Yay Bioware."

 

[ChienAboyeur]

In products that aim at gameplay (products formely known as games), sex and romance matter as they provide a support for gameplay. As it was shown, very few games in the past managed to translate sex and romance in gameplay, there are very few games about sex and romance, despite a large adult market.

In products that aim at story (products currently known as games), withdrawing the inclusion of sex and romance would extremelly punish the writers for no reason other than respecting political correctness.
Romance and sex are common ingredients to be included in a story, with representation changing to fit the form.
In espionage movies, sex is represented as torrid and spies are advised to avoid romancing, no room for romancing in the world of espionage (as represented through story)
In war movies, it is the common representation of the romance that is going to endure the separation of war and will survive the atrocities, sex is represented accordingly.
In love movies, that's the power of love, two people who are too different to fall in love find out they are soul mate, sex is represented accordingly.

Romance and sex are essential ingredients in story. Very hard to find a story that does include them in some sort of way, even stories for kids include them.

On what ground games, when they are medium to deliver a story should deprive writers from including what so many other writers can include at will in any kind of story?

Indeed, when game are about gameplay, sex and romance are a difficult material to work with. Simultaneously, the avatar does not matter. Avatar can be a gay, who cares?

In story and the associated representation that come with, withdrawing sex and romance cripples.

 

[Thorwyn99]

Well first of imo the article is misslabeled, this isn't about sex in games it's about LBGT representation in games, slightly different topic.

Second I'm not sure where the controversy comes from either, imo this isn't an agenda to either side by bioware, it's just catering to a probably not small chunk of their fanbase asking for exactly such a romance option. There is a lesbian option too right ?
(And it's much better than everyone is hawk sexual anyways)
I hope they don't introduce him with a neon sign "Hello I'm your gay romance for today" like I thought they did in ME3.

Oh and since the author mentions the witcher 2 and the article is called sex in games, are the da sex scenes any better yet ?
Compared to the scenes in DA the Witcher 2 Triss Arc was an absolute masterpiece

 

[crpgnut]

Until they add incest, pedophilia and bestiality options it's just not cutting edge enough C'mon tackle something that is actually illegal in the real world! Of course, those Qunari look like goats, so maybe they did sneak something in....

 

[Sacred_Path]

In products that aim at gameplay (products formely known as games), sex and romance matter as they provide a support for gameplay. As it was shown, very few games in the past managed to translate sex and romance in gameplay, there are very few games about sex and romance, despite a large adult market.

In products that aim at story (products currently known as games), withdrawing the inclusion of sex and romance would extremelly punish the writers for no reason other than respecting political correctness.
Romance and sex are common ingredients to be included in a story, with representation changing to fit the form.
In espionage movies, sex is represented as torrid and spies are advised to avoid romancing, no room for romancing in the world of espionage (as represented through story)
In war movies, it is the common representation of the romance that is going to endure the separation of war and will survive the atrocities, sex is represented accordingly.
In love movies, that's the power of love, two people who are too different to fall in love find out they are soul mate, sex is represented accordingly.

Romance and sex are essential ingredients in story. Very hard to find a story that does include them in some sort of way, even stories for kids include them.

On what ground games, when they are medium to deliver a story should deprive writers from including what so many other writers can include at will in any kind of story?

Indeed, when game are about gameplay, sex and romance are a difficult material to work with. Simultaneously, the avatar does not matter. Avatar can be a gay, who cares?

In story and the associated representation that come with, withdrawing sex and romance cripples.

Yes, there are people who want to play romance simulators and there are developers catering to them. Personally I refrain from playing romance simulators and games where substantial amounts of development time go into the development of romances.
Of course, in the context of RPG's, I think the perfect place for these elements is lore. But of course it's much more complicated to weave sex and romance into the world rather than writing thousands of lines of hackneyed dialogue.

 

[Ripper]

Until they add incest, pedophilia and bestiality options it's just not cutting edge enough C'mon tackle something that is actually illegal in the real world! Of course, those Qunari look like goats, so maybe they did sneak something in….

They warned us this would happen - first you let the gays in, and then this is what you get.

Perhaps we should petition EA for new romance options, as the RPGWatch Quadruped Enthusiast community.

 

[The Walkin' Dude]

Great, so these "issues" are being discussed in the context of gaming too. The elf was annoying as hell already in DA 1, so I can't wait to see what they will have in Inquisition. Maybe have a macho guy constantly whine about his dead husband?

 

[joxer]

Whining was DA:O thing. Oddly noone used Alistairing instead of whining somewhere...

In any case, no whining in DA3.