PC is not dead, but is it dissapearing?

[Chekote]

That's incorrect. You're imagining something like the old IBM master/slave model where users only had access to dumb terminals. Client-server is a kinda similar but different.

Your platform will need to have the right hardware if it's going to generate graphics that require it. Server-side software can't compensate for that.

Actually he is correct. ATI is already developing a "cloud" that will render games at PS3 / XBox360 quality and stream the output to any device, even phones.

Not sure how well it's going to work considering the latency. But it *does* exist.

 

[Squeek]

Actually he is correct. ATI is already developing a "cloud" that will render games at PS3 / XBox360 quality and stream the output to any device, even phones.

Not sure how well it's going to work considering the latency. But it *does* exist.

Nope. Basic stuff.

Theres' room for all kinds of good ideas for making things work, but realities are realities. You can find work arounds, but those aren't exactly the same thing, are they?

 

[Lucky Day]

It's disappearing from retail for sure. But I think it's just evolving into purely digital distribution for two reasons:

1. PC is always ahead of the curve with tech
2. Digital distribution tools such as Steam are finally providing a solution for piracy.

It's very similar to the impact that iTunes had. I know a lot of people that used to pirate music. Now they get it via iTunes because it's so simple compared to pirating the music, where-as pirating used to be far simpler than going to the store and purchasing a CD.

I just hope Steam will start releasing sales figures so all this retail-only doom and gloom can be shut up for good.

This just proves what I'm saying. CD's are still available in stores and do brisk business in spite of things like iTunes. Heck, even vinyl is still around.

 

[GothicGothicness]

That's incorrect. You're imagining something like the old IBM master/slave model where users only had access to dumb terminals. Client-server is kinda similar but different.

Your platform will need to have the right hardware if it's going to generate graphics that require it. Servers can run software your platform can't, but server-side software can't generate all the graphics needed on your end.

It's a question of "making it work" on the one hand versus "compensating completely" on the other. Those aren't the same thing.

The technology is already here, server side software can generate all graphics needed on your end, that is already proven, you have to realise what graphics is. Graphics is pixels with colors, pixels with colors can be sent through internet. No matter what hardware based graphics card you have it will end up with a 2d-picture on your screen. OLGA is one of the project where it is tested.

This just proves what I'm saying. CD's are still available in stores and do brisk business in spite of things like iTunes. Heck, even vinyl is still around.

CD's will be availaible as long as people buy them. Another important difference is that music and movies can never be protected by server side technology, only games can. This will mean game companies has a great advantage to realese their games only by server-side technology, if they are released in another media as well, that media will be pirated, and it will kill the idea of server-side technology.

On top of that it will be great, anyone with a screen and a controller and a modem could play a game, the gamedevelopers will never need to beta test their games on different system ,and myriads of different graphics cards or focus on hard-coding for a specific console. All will be provided by the cloud, and they only need to know how to program for this cloud. Piracy, patching, and upgrading drivers, will be a thing of the pasts.

 

[Squeek]

The technology is already here, server side software can generate all graphics needed on your end, that is already proven, you have to realise what graphics is. Graphics is pixels with colors, pixels with colors can be sent through internet. No matter what hardware based graphics card you have it will end up with a 2d-picture on your screen. OLGA is one of the project where it is tested.

Well, I was responding to what you wrote and seemed to mean, and now you seem to mean something else.

What you're describing is very much like the idea behind centralized computing, the way things worked before the PC. I didn't read the previous thread you mentioned, but if you're suggesting that PC graphics capabilities will soon trend down (way down), I think you're mistaken.

I would have to read the stuff you're talking about, but from what you've discribed my guess is that it's a work around to facilitate a current lack in engineering standards that exists among parts used in various platforms, ones other than the PC. The main effort is, of course, to create those kinds of standards in the first place.

But today there are a whole slew of new computing devices, some that are quite inexpensive and can't very well contain some of the more expensive parts (like graphics cards).

What makes sense as a solution for those devices wouldn't necessarily make sense for the PC. I can't imagine anyone at ATI wanting to take things in an opposite direction.

 

[Zaleukos]

The technology is already here, server side software can generate all graphics needed on your end, that is already proven, you have to realise what graphics is. Graphics is pixels with colors, pixels with colors can be sent through internet. No matter what hardware based graphics card you have it will end up with a 2d-picture on your screen. OLGA is one of the project where it is tested.

It would be more difficult than streaming video though, as a constant latency that is acceptable for a movie would make a real time game unplayable...

 

[GothicGothicness]

yes, it is complex, one of the guys who worked on the project is a friend of mine ( and showed me how it worked out ETC) , OLGA is not there yet, but you can take a look at what they did so far:

http://80.68.192.83/olga/

What you're describing is very much like the idea behind centralized computing, the way things worked before the PC. I didn't read the previous thread you mentioned, but if you're suggesting that PC graphics capabilities will soon trend down (way down), I think you're mistaken.

We are already in the clouds, cloud computing is not so different from the old slave / terminal thinking, except the cloud is distrubted computing, with dynamical load between a lot of machines. MS is already offering it, accsess your desktop from anymore, cell, PC, TV, xbox wherever Skydrive is another example, all hosted by the MS cloud. Amazon is there, want to make a calculation take part of the amazon cloud. Google is there, most of their stuffs is already in the clouds, and more to come, soon all your data will be on google instead of your hard-drive, you never need to lose another file again, or run out of space, and you could access your data from everywhere.

The games are also moving into the cloud, wait and see, no need to believe me now Just put a memo on this thread? and go back to it 5 years from now.

 

[Benedict]

It'd be great if the mid market & indie did become a major force in PC gaming with the migration of graphics intensive gameplay light games to consoles.

Then my next gaming computer could be a laptop and it'd be far neater.

 

[txa1265]

This just proves what I'm saying. CD's are still available in stores and do brisk business in spite of things like iTunes. Heck, even vinyl is still around.

Thing to remember - in only a few years iTunes went from a 'pet project' from a computer maker that was always in the minority who was late in entering the market for MP3 players to THE #1 source for music ... not just digital, but overall, surpassing retail giants such as Walmart and online giants such as Amazon. And they continue growing, and other digital distro sources are also doing well - I don't think it can be disputed that digital distro of music is massive and highly significant.

Two things, though:
- a big appeal of digital is convenience.
- another is price - why pay $15 for a CD when the digital is $10?
- While iTunes is #1 and Amazon MP3 is likely in the Top 20, I don't think anyone doubts that TOTAL CD sales are larger than TOTAL digital sales still.

For me the second one is interesting for the game market - why should I pay $50 for a digital distribution with all these restrictions when the boxed game costs the same?

 

[Benedict]

This just proves what I'm saying. CD's are still available in stores and do brisk business in spite of things like iTunes. Heck, even vinyl is still around.

The main cd buying demographics are shifting though. Younger users who consume a lot of different types of music and have comparatively low disposable incomes are buying less physical media while older users who don't buy enough music to really affect their income enjoy having the proper box for things.

Vinyl's a bit different in some ways as well, I've got a heck of a lot of vinyl and if something I like is out on vinyl I'll buy it because it seems like a real object, cds are disposable media to me and I never buy them these days. Plus I hate them getting scratched so all my cds are kept in a wallet with the boxes and stuff thrown away, which defeats the object a bit.

 

[Squeek]

We are already in the clouds, cloud computing is not so different from the old slave / terminal thinking, except the cloud is distrubted computing, with dynamical load between a lot of machines.

These concepts can be confusing, and you seem to be referring to several as one, but I'm starting to see where you're coming from now.

The future is hard to predict, but it's important to remember two things. The first is that technology won't drive this kind of progress, because it's being made by businesses. Good ideas are better than bad, of course. But business realities stand in the way, and they're non-trivial. Market considerations will always be more significant.

The second is that it's wrong to ever expect steps to be taken backwards. Whatever evolves will only go forward.

The PC was the harbinger of distributed computing and seemed destined to revolutionize everything. Its impact on businesses can hardly be overstated, the largest ones in the world most of all. But its impact on individuals is still in doubt.

The best thing that could happen to the PC would be for its customers to become more discriminating. Up to this point most buyers have been first-time users who don't know diddly. That's what's been wrong. The PC's progress will evolve more sensibly once its customers work through their learning curve.

There's a little too much "cloud" in the cloud you're describing. So many cloud concepts have come and gone, I've lost track. OLGA looks like they have a pretty cool idea, and I wish them well. IMO, PCs won't have much to do with their foreseeable future.

 

[zakhal]

Death to PC piracy?

OnLive could threaten Xbox, PS3, and Wii

SAN FRANCISCO--Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo, look out. Your traditional video game console business model may be in danger.

It's too early to tell how much danger, of course, but a start-up called OnLive announced a brand-new game distribution system Monday night that, if it works as planned, could change the games game forever.

OnLive, which was started by WebTV founder Steve Perlman and former Eidos CEO Mike McGarvey, is aiming to launch a system--seven years in the works--that will digitally distribute first-run, AAA games from publishers like Electronic Arts, Take-Two, Ubisoft, Atari, and others, all at the same time as those titles are released into retail channels. The system is designed to allow players to stream on-demand games at the highest quality onto any Intel-based Mac or PC running XP or Vista, regardless of how powerful the computer.

The system will also stream games directly to a TV via a small plug-in device, and players can use a custom wireless controller as well as VoIP headsets in conjunction with it.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10797_3-10202688-235.html

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

I won't participate, because I still want CDs & DVDs, physical specimens.

Apart from that this looks interesting.

 

[zakhal]

I won't participate, because I still want CDs & DVDs, physical specimens.

They will propably release some games only through that to achieve 0% piracy.

 

[GothicGothicness]

I am sorry to say it Alrik but as stated earlier by me in several threads. Only a matter of time before every game will go through an online model.

 

[danutz_plusplus]

That Onlive sounds interesting. Especially since it has the potential of killing consoles. You'll be able to play console games from your PC or from your TV without the need for consoles. I really wonder if they can do it right.

 

[woges]

Maybe, maybe, that'll be the day I don't look back on video games though.

I'm getting tired of supporting an industry that devalues its products for its paying customers. I'll stick my money into more books or films. I'm already buying fewer games on the PC because of the industry's trends.

 

[zakhal]

Im sure its doable. If they create server farms all around world the latency wont be an issue at all.

I heard you can play quake arena online through browser nowadays btw.

 

[UK_John]

Two points: 1) People are getting two idea from the statement 'will PC gaming die'. One group, rightly in my view, take it to mean it dying as a mainstream commercial market, like being able to say the horse and buggy market has died compared to the 19th century, even though we know horses and indeed buggy's still exist! It's just that as a mainstream everyday market it doesn't exist.

The other group thinks the statement means nobody on the planet playing a single PC game. Which is patently ridiculous, given that their will always be a wealth of back product to access for years to come. It happening today, with DOSBox recently announcing it's TEN MILLIONTH download! It didn't get the attention of WoW's 10 millionth subscriber, but it was still big news!

2) Given that I believe in statement No.1, I believe PC gaming is already dead, to all intents and purposes. It now has zero driving force in the mainstream market, is already pretty much gone in terms of being considered as a choice for the gaming machine for the home, and it is already totally reliant on the console market for product, in the form of conversions.

If we end up with a few indie developers selling product through download, along with a thriving retro PC market, that won't be a mainstream market,it will be a very small niche market. Mom and Pop and little Johnny will not have one single thought of their home PC playing games beyond Mom playing Solitaire. Gaming will be what consoles do. PC's will be for the internet and work. Will there still be people playing PC games. Yes. Will they be visible in any meaningful way? No. That's a dead market.

It's not unusual to have hobby's disappear. In the 50's and 60's every kid played with marbles and collected cards, in the 60's and 70's most kids collected stamps or coins and in the 70's/80's we have had skipping ropes and Rubik's cube and break dancing and many other things that have come and gone.

I will always be a PC gamer. I have over 500 PC games in my collection, going back 15-20 years. On a personal level PC gaming will never die.

But as a cohesive mainstream market that impacts on the entertainment business and drives at least a portion of the market? No. It hasn't been that for over 3 years. From that business/market perspective, PC gaming is already going through it's death throws.

(See my thread 'PC gaming's future' in this forum.)

 

[thegreatsimoni]

I recently had this discussion with a friend too.

Its interesting to note how much the industry has changed in the last 10 years. Ever read PC Gamer? In the 90s I felt like I knew about every pc game coming out. Then game companies were small. There were only 50 titles a year. Only a dozen of which were good.

I go to FRYS nowadays and see titles and expansion packs I've never heard of. Games you can't even find reviews of online. The quality shrinks. Single player games are drying up. People want to play with their friends and compete. Multiplayer games require less ideas/thought/craft and more production lines, product development, eye candy, shipping. Lower costs.

But eventually I do believe there will be a rebound for a few small, independent companies, someday.