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Sacred_Path
Guest
Recent MMO's wouldn't make a feature not innovative if used for offline single player games I guess. The question is though if innovation is really a feature that many CRPG players crave and reward. People are raving about Risen 3 so I guess innovation is pretty far down the list for CRPG players.
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DArtagnan
Guest
I crave evolution more than innovation, really.
But I have no problem with lacking innovation in PoE. It's not the kind of game I would expect innovation from.
In fact, I think it might be a mistake for them to innovate too much.
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Sacred_Path
Guest
They're between two chairs with this product as they want to serve IE fans while not getting dismissed as oldfashioned. I think they're doing amiably so far. The megadungeon is somewhat innovative in a story driven game as it a) is far larger than Durlag's Tower and b) isn't as linear as Watcher's Keep. It's gonna be like a mini TOEE. Then there's the kill XP thing. The way attributes and classes are set up is somewhat innovative (though I still can't see why you would use any other class but a ranger for an archer, for example). As a lot of people have trouble correctly locating a spot between two extremes I'm sure they'll get a lot of reviews that emphasize the "oldfashioned" side, but that was to be expected.
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DArtagnan
Guest
I don't think they need to worry much about reviews. They've already sold the game, basically - and though it's probably not going to be huge - I expect it to be successful simply because it's so obviously BG/IE in spirit.
As something like D:OS has shown us, there's a pretty big audience ready for old-school stuff.
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sakichop
Guest
Basically you need to take damage to use certain abilities. I've always played monks for their ability to avoid damage. Also they can use any weapon or armor. They're really just a fighter now.
I much prefer the restrictions of D&D.
I like to build stealthy party's. Sneak ahead with my thief, scout the area, place a thief in position to backstab a Mage, sneak my monk in to occupy a stronger guy then ambush.
I'll have to play the demo and see if this is a viable way to play but from what I've read it seems I'll have to play totally different than the way I enjoy playing these types of games.
Monk info:
Monks in Eternity are different than you might expect. There are no restrictions on armor and weapons – you could wear plate and use a sword, if you wanted to, and the talent system is flexible enough so you could build a great monk that specialized in that gear. But at the core of this class is a little rule about how monks take damage. You see, when a monk gets hit, only part of the damage is inflicted on him or her immediately. The rest is redirected to a Wound, which is an effect that causes damage over time (called a DoT effect) to the monk. That slowly-ticking Wound would only seem to be delaying the inevitable result except for one thing: the monk can get rid of that Wound by using special attacks.
The monk gets all kinds of cool special attacks that do extra effects beyond simply damage and, as a side effect, also eliminate his Wounds. Some of their special attacks include:
Torment’s Reach - this ability increases the range of melee attacks by 200% for a short duration. Enemies between the monk and his or her target are also attacked. Costs 1 Wound to activate.
Turning Wheel - if the monk suffers from a DoT effect (including Wounds ticking down), he or she adds a proportional fire bonus to his or her melee damage. This is a passive ability which works automatically whenever the monk has any DoT effect.
Clarity of Agony - when used, this ability cuts the duration of hostile status effects in half. It lasts for a brief amount of time, halving both incoming effects and ones that are currently on the monk. Costs 2 Wounds.
Each of these attacks makes monks stronger in battle, and many also consume their Wounds, hopefully before those Wounds have done the damage the monks were originally supposed to take.
And as monks level up, they get more than just these special attacks. They can gain room for more Wounds, so they can have more of them at once to use at the same time for an extraordinarily powerful attack or use them across multiple special attacks. Monks can also change how their Wounds function. For example, they can choose to have their Wounds do less damage at the start and more at the end, so getting rid of them faster is advantageous. Monks can also choose to do their damage sequentially, letting the monk build up a lot of Wounds to fuel a crazy powerful ability and not take much damage for doing so.
So as a monk, your goal is simple: you want to take damage, so you get Wounds, so you can perform extraordinary attacks. But remember when I mentioned the monk in plate mail using a sword? Sure, you can do that, but that plate armor will inhibit your ability to get Wounds, which means you don't get as many special attacks. And unarmed attacks are among the fastest types of attacks, so a weaponless monk can get rid of his Wounds faster than any armed monk, so he will suffer very little of their damage-over-time effects. That's like having extra hit points for free! FOR FREE! Who wouldn't want that?!
The monk gets all kinds of cool special attacks that do extra effects beyond simply damage and, as a side effect, also eliminate his Wounds. Some of their special attacks include:
Torment’s Reach - this ability increases the range of melee attacks by 200% for a short duration. Enemies between the monk and his or her target are also attacked. Costs 1 Wound to activate.
Turning Wheel - if the monk suffers from a DoT effect (including Wounds ticking down), he or she adds a proportional fire bonus to his or her melee damage. This is a passive ability which works automatically whenever the monk has any DoT effect.
Clarity of Agony - when used, this ability cuts the duration of hostile status effects in half. It lasts for a brief amount of time, halving both incoming effects and ones that are currently on the monk. Costs 2 Wounds.
Each of these attacks makes monks stronger in battle, and many also consume their Wounds, hopefully before those Wounds have done the damage the monks were originally supposed to take.
And as monks level up, they get more than just these special attacks. They can gain room for more Wounds, so they can have more of them at once to use at the same time for an extraordinarily powerful attack or use them across multiple special attacks. Monks can also change how their Wounds function. For example, they can choose to have their Wounds do less damage at the start and more at the end, so getting rid of them faster is advantageous. Monks can also choose to do their damage sequentially, letting the monk build up a lot of Wounds to fuel a crazy powerful ability and not take much damage for doing so.
So as a monk, your goal is simple: you want to take damage, so you get Wounds, so you can perform extraordinary attacks. But remember when I mentioned the monk in plate mail using a sword? Sure, you can do that, but that plate armor will inhibit your ability to get Wounds, which means you don't get as many special attacks. And unarmed attacks are among the fastest types of attacks, so a weaponless monk can get rid of his Wounds faster than any armed monk, so he will suffer very little of their damage-over-time effects. That's like having extra hit points for free! FOR FREE! Who wouldn't want that?!
Yeah, I don't care for the way that sounds at all. It's like they're trying too hard to make monks different.
At least I know what class I won't be playing.
At least I know what class I won't be playing.
Planescape Torment didn't reward kills directly iirc. What about Wasteland? I seem to remember it had something weird with kills and experience.
Skyrim has a mod that does away with kill experience and instead rewards exploration heavily. That makes for a very interesting game too. No longer will you kill just to level up. In that game, I just outran mobs that didn't have loot. It was fun.
Skyrim has a mod that does away with kill experience and instead rewards exploration heavily. That makes for a very interesting game too. No longer will you kill just to level up. In that game, I just outran mobs that didn't have loot. It was fun.
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Hexprone
Thou hast lost an eighth!
VtM: Bloodlines
My understanding is WoD has always given quest XP only (could be wrong, never played the PnP games).
And in the ES games you could never kill something without building a skill to some extent because you'd have to use a skill to do it, but there isn't any separate "kill xp" as such, is there?
blatantninja
Resident Redneck Facist
What is no kill XP? You don't get XP for killing stuff? I admitedly haven't gotten very far in PoE due to time constraints and am starting over since having a thief as your main character is not a good idea for the Beta. I've only been in two battles and the second one I keep getting everyone killed (hence the need to start over!)
Hexprone
Thou hast lost an eighth!
Yes, you get XP in chunks for completing steps of a quest.
You get the same XP for a quest whether or not you kill anything in the process.
You get the same XP for a quest whether or not you kill anything in the process.
That's cool if you have alternative ways to solve quests, besides combat.
If I remember right Vampire: Bloodlines worked and Spellforce that way.
If I remember right Vampire: Bloodlines worked and Spellforce that way.
What difficulty and encounter?
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blatantninja
Resident Redneck Facist
The bugs when you go east out of the town. They just annihilate me.
They have high DT (aka armor) against all damage type but crushing. I personally use a lots of CC against them too (BB Rogue with bow, BB Wizard and BB Priest all have ranged CC).
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Hexprone
Thou hast lost an eighth!
Yeah, I died to those guys three times running. Then I came back the next day and found them so easy that I had to make sure I hadn't levelled without noticing or accidentally changed the difficulty setting.
Combat in this game really does require a little bit more management than the old IE games did -- and you don't expect the differences because everything looks so much the same. As soon as you start paying more attention to positioning etc, the game becomes dramatically easier.
Thrasher
Wheeee!
Positioning was key even with the Infinity Engine games. One of the things I liked about them, BTW. No just spamming attacks.
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Deleted User
Guest
So far it's sounding pretty good (positioning matters, weakness/strengths matter, you have to actually pay attention and use your brain during battles and you can die, it seems somewhat "hardcore" and very old-school, etc.) I hope they don't make the game easier or more casual for the final release...
I just wanted to point out that PS: T had regular kill XP. It's just that you could get a lot of additional XP by having high Wisdom and solving quests in an alternative way.
In PS:T, you almost always got FAR more XP for finding a non-lethal solution to a problem. It's one of the many reasons I love that game!!