Piranha Bytes - New Publisher: Deep Silver

[Corwin]

A good read, but this part intrigued me- "what we said was absolutely true except for a few details". Wonder what those details were!!!!

 

[The Wanderer]

... and he didn't want to comment "on who did what mistakes"...

Can't wait to see what they're working on.

Go PB GO!!!

 

[bjon045]

Sounds amazing, that is pretty much exactly what I wanted them to start producing. I just hope they can execute it.

If they had the ability to work with the Gothic 2 engine it would suit me just fine, and maybe just make a few tweaks/upgrades.

 

[HiddenX]

I am 99% sure that PB uses an enhanced G3-GENOME engine.

Especially as far as "The Return Of The Chapters" is concerned, this sounds very stale.
One would think PB should be able to come up with a better, more organic way of organising respawn, world progression and story advancement nowadays!

Balanced leveling of monsters in a complete free world is nearly impossibe (without cheating(*)), because you have very different gamer playing styles:

a) the "I do all and kill everything" - gamer
b) "I finish the game in 1 day" - gamer

you simply can't set up a world that satisfies gamer a) and gamer b). Oblivion, Two Worlds and Gothic 3 have failed in this category.

(*) game engine cheating: Level the monsters in dependency to the level of your character -> Wizardry 8 did a decent job with this method.

I think a chapter system

1) makes the monster placement and leveling a lot easier.
2) you can tell a story like a book - very difficult in a complete free world.

 

[bjon045]

I am 99% sure that PB uses an enhanced G3-GENOME engine.

Are you sure? I recall reading that the devs wanted to get rid of GENOME for any future projects. If they are using it I hope it has been "enhanced" a lot.

 

[JonNik]

Personally I have to agree with the sentiments expressed by some on the
"announced specs".

As much as I Love G1 (my personal favorite) going with a G1 size world these
days seems a bit obsolete. It does seem like overeacting after being stung
from the Criticism in G3. Building on what they have(read: fixing basic design
blunders, tuning and finding a way to implement a more involved story) seemed
more logical...

Still this will be much more low cost (and has more possibilities to actually work
as intended this time) as mentioned. Also they seem to have remembered that
the fanbase was the key element of their survival and they go to great lengths
to win it back...

For me their whole stance of late smells a bit fishy (yes I know they are a tiny
studio trying to survive). It will take a really comprehensive demo and favourable
reviews from the community to make me buy their next work.

No more release day "beta test" purchases for me (since the commitment to
fixing them is generally uncertain it seems) thank you...

 

[JDR13]

Are you sure? I recall reading that the devs wanted to get rid of GENOME for any future projects. If they are using it I hope it has been "enhanced" a lot.

I think GENOME is a great engine, they just need to make it easier to run by changing the way the map streams into memory. The single greatest complaint about GENOME is the ridiculous system requirements needed to make it run smoothly. It still has a lot of potential, it was just too ahead of it's time for Gothic 3.

 

[nameless hero]

A G1 size world isn't obsolete. If by obsolete you mean large (and nothing in it), then all my favorite games are pre-atari. The G1 world size was optimal. I'm sure PB will manage to pull off another "gothic" with their next game. I'm sure of it.

 

[JonNik]

Obsolete, as in too small, difficult to restrict the player inside giving him a
plausible reason and retain suspension of disbelief.

Particularly these days when people expect sizable worlds from their open
ended free roaming RPGs (this is gothic not NWN).

For G1, the barrier was an excellent device and was,ahem, magically concistent
with the unique setting. They'll have to repeat a similar trick perhaps ?
a tinee tiny island ? It will be tough to make it work... Perhaps if they recapture
their early touch... It will be a difficult sell I think...

Oh well we'll see

 

[titus]

Oh well, g1 was maybe not a big world and still the first time you played it, it felt huge whith all the places you could go and how filled it was, so if they can repeat that it is all fine by me, I don't know why but I trust PB can pull it of again

 

[Moriendor]

I think GENOME is a great engine, they just need to make it easier to run by changing the way the map streams into memory. The single greatest complaint about GENOME is the ridiculous system requirements needed to make it run smoothly. It still has a lot of potential, it was just too ahead of it's time for Gothic 3.

I think this is a bit too one-sided as you're only looking at it from the user perspective (which is not too great either as you rightfully pointed out the serious performance issues). From everything that PB have said, it sounds like Genome was a nightmare to work with. That precludes it from being a "great" engine. It would only be a great engine if it would allow the developer to easily create new, bug-free content and to achieve a general ease of use in linking all of their internal tools with the engine etc.

If PB was telling us the truth when they were complaining about Genome then it must be assumed that Genome is more or less FUBAR. That's why I always found PB's complaints a bit strange. I mean they made this engine by themselves and they were bitching about it as if it was someone else's fault. That's like pissing in your own bed and then complaining that the sheets are wet .

Well, I have a feeling (and this is sort of a continuation of my little conspiracy theory above ) that they will be using Gamebryo for real this time. They must have had that engine lying around for over two years now and who knows... maybe they did really have a side project next to Gothic III (for Koch/Deep Silver) and maybe they have become real Gamebryo experts over the last couple of years? I mean they knew that they were going to lose Genome (or actually the entire source code of Gothic 3 as is now becoming evident by JoWooD's offer to allow fans access to the source materials) to JoWooD so maybe the idea of licensing Gamebryo was always to use it for the next project. Maybe it was never intended for use with Gothic 3 anyway?

As far as the world size is concerned, I don't quite get what the problem is for those who think it's too small. I think Gothic I is fairly big (especially since it's "real" 3D and there is a lot to be discovered via the Z axis, i.e. by climbing up to higher places etc). In the end it all depends on how they manage to fill it with content anyway. It's always better to have a smaller world and a less epic but more captivating and dense story than to have a huge world with a uber epic but boring as hell story in my opinion.

 

[Maylander]

The thing is, PB is excellent at using 3D to make worlds seem bigger than they really are. A world being "only" as big as G1 can still feel pretty damn big if there are mountains and valleys and what not, instead of just open plains. It's not about the size of the area, it's about the content in it, and how well things work together (as Moriendor mentioned).

Also, I agree on guilds - bring them back please, but make them a bit more unique this time (as was intended in G1 I think, that each camp had their own story, or at least bigger differences). It feels good to be a part of such a community, instead of just a freelancer all the time, and as previously mentioned: It adds replayvalue (at least for me).

I will be very interested in hearing more about this game, definetly looking forward to it.

 

[txa1265]

I thought that G2 was wonderful in the way that it felt completely alive from end to end, unlike Oblivion & G3 which had pockets of planned life and occasional stuff in between.

I love the sound of things from the interview.

 

[cutterjohn]

Well, well. They had two pretty solid releases, and a crap one, and they have correctly analyzed that they bit off too much on G3. I'm optimistic that they will be able to concentrate on their strengths again. It might even help that they can focus on a new IP, and throw the Gothic balast over board. In most series things tend to get stale after a while anyway.

Reputedly the first two Gothics were also as buggy as hell. In particular the second one was considered by many, or so I am told, to only be complete when Night of the Ravens shipped.

Personally, I never saw/played any of them until the other year when I picked up the re-released Gothic II Gold (w/NotR) here, and later found a copy of Gothic 1.

As to the state of Gothic 3, sorry but I place blame for release of extremely buggy games squarely on the publisher and the publisher alone, especially in two particular cases: Jowood AND Dreamcatcher, surprising how they're part of the same company now isn't it... Two bugmeisters together at last!

 

[nameless hero]

A G1 size world isn't obsolete. If by obsolete you mean large (and nothing in it), then all my favorite games are pre-atari. The G1 world size was optimal. I'm sure PB will manage to pull off another "gothic" with their next game. I'm sure of it.

Oops. I just re-read my post- It didn't make sense. I MEANT "If by obsolete, this means too small". ***.

 

[Ragon der Magier]

The thing is, PB is excellent at using 3D to make worlds seem bigger than they really are. A world being "only" as big as G1 can still feel pretty damn big if there are mountains and valleys and what not, instead of just open plains. It's not about the size of the area, it's about the content in it, and how well things work together (as Moriendor mentioned).

Sure,
I could have been more clear 'bout that - but i took it for granted:
Of course it´s not about sheer size, but instead about size/content ratio.

All i was trying to say has been:
You don´t need to go back as far as G I.
G II was offering more than enough in that department, either... and in fact with NOTR it scored brilliantly here!
But againg, also original G II already gave me a finely believable and dense game world - and a lot of fun to play through!

Also, I agree on guilds - bring them back please, but make them a bit more unique this time (as was intended in G1 I think, that each camp had their own story, or at least bigger differences). It feels good to be a part of such a community, instead of just a freelancer all the time, and as previously mentioned: It adds replayvalue (at least for me).

I will be very interested in hearing more about this game, definetly looking forward to it.

Yes, the guilds, mhm.... *think*
Well, regardless of whether it's the guilds of G I or G II or even the factions G III.
The major problem of the latter IMHO just has been how poorly they had been set into scene and how many of the original design about them had again been scrapped due to the overall problems (time constraints, engine issues) along the game's dev cycle.

Key would rather be:
- feeling attached to a certain party
- through a bond of some (more or less intense) degree
- that party pursuing sound interests
- presented to him by intriguing and believable NPCs of theirs or information from 3rd parties
- that (i.e. those interests) the player can make his own to some extent in certain ways and act accordingly
- which in return has effects and consequences on him, the game world and the said party
- ...


Rgds,
Ragon

 

[Gorath]

The small world could be an indicator for a rather short development cycle. If we assume they had the right to re-use certain parts of the Genome engine and spend the time since October mostly on fixing technology, tools and pre-production, they could create a game like the first Gothic quickly. It´s not unrealistic to release such a game near Christmas next year. G2 only took from April 2001 to ca. Oct. 2002, including pre-production, small technology upgrade and patching for Gothic.

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

a tinee tiny island ?

Why not ? You were never on an island were you ?

Besides, I'm not very fond of that "chapter" thing either, but the rest reads very good.



However, the whole list as posted by hiddenx implies probably two things :

- JoWood wanted the big world and everything else like in G3, not PB.

or

- they've learned from their mistakes

I don't quite know what I should thing about this.

 

[Moriendor]

JoWood wanted the big world and everything else like in G3, not PB.

or

- they've learned from their mistakes

The second one. PB have repeatedly stated that they had full creative control over Gothic III. They admitted that the project's scope turned out to be too ambitious in the end and they simply ran out of time and couldn't fill the huge world with all the content that they had originally planned on.

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

I do hope they will finally put women in, not leave them out because of the low quality of their clothes, so to say.
That was the far lamest explanation I've ever heard.

Well, all in all I'm relatively positive about their "new project".