RPGWatch Feature: Inside The Witcher, Part 2

[Dhruin]

Mikezz

Well, I mean that we are told a important NPC dies either way, a different one but still seems the same outcome, at least from our perspective of not knowing the world or having played the game.

I can see your point but it's hard to comment without playing the entire game multiple times and comparing the "real" consequences. From my perspective, I think a different NPC dying, which then changes the quest flow (because you need to talk to someone else and get their quests instead) is a pretty good consequence within the context of what we expect our of games.

You're right that exchanging one dead NPC for another can sound like a zero sum - NPC A, NPC B....who cares? Hopefully the story changes will make it work.

Bear in mind, they really need to balance both paths - people are going to get pissed if one choice is "better" than another.

Still hard to wrap my head around that, since I don't see the real world choices as lesser of two evils, so every time someone says "like in the real world", it gets confusing.

What I mean by this is you just can't predict and control every decision in real life. In this case (some spoilers but I think this subject has been covered so many times) you first meet a dwarf you used to know - he is surprised you don't remember him (amnesia) and explains it's hard to move around the city because of the racism against non-humans and the suspicion caused by Squirrel attacks. The squirrels (they have an elvish(?) name in-game that means "squirrel" but I can't remember the spelling) are non-humans who are pissed about their treatment by the humans and have resorted to terrorism-like tactics - which, of course, the humans don't appreciate.

(Sound like the real world? Arabic terrorists make people suspicious of every arab?)

So, you've just learned about these terrorists. You've doing a bit of work for this trader, protecting his stuff from "drowners" (criminals who drown in the river and rise up as monsters) when some squirrels come in the night and want crates of these weapons.

You don't really know what is going on - other than the broad details. In a perfect world, you'd say "come back tomorrow after I've figured it out", but terrorists aren't going to do that. So, do you sympathise with the squirrels? Is terrorism wrong no matter what the cause? You were instructed to protect the weapons against drowners - should that include the squirrels, who say the stuff is theirs?

You make you decision and you don't really know what it "right" -- but isn't that like the real world? If this were real, you wouldn't know what would happen down the track because of this.

 

[Dusk]

Sabre, the most of information is on the official web site. However, it is nice to see the summary is well-done even from the eyes of a Spakowsky reader.

As for how the sexual theme is treated, at least from reading Dhruin's post and this thread, people including myself are not offended by the existence of sex but the possibility of silly mini-games just as Dhruin implied. In fact, I didn't have my doubt on the little sister issue in Bioshock, confident with Levine and his team. Seeing most of people is taking it out of context, I think they are too tired of our world's political/religious disputes, of which I don't blame them. At least, my point is: If the designers are using social outcast theme tied with the world feel, then, it will be more than welcome to me but making it to a mini-game could rather make a parody of itself, weakening the theme. Even for sheer marketing purpose, I wonder if such mini-game would work.

As for the decisions and consequences issue, I am happy to read Dhruin's posts. I am looking forward to your follow-ups, Dhruin.

 

[Acleacius]

Dhruin

Bear in mind, they really need to balance both paths - people are going to get pissed if one choice is "better" than another.

That makes since then if that's their intent to make each equal.

(Sound like the real world? Arabic terrorists make people suspicious of every arab?)

Yes, that's a great explanation and a brilliant topic for the developers to take on and makes much more sense, with them trying to make both sides/choices equal and it really does reflect the RW situation, as both sides are equally wrong.

You make you decision and you don't really know what it "right" -- but isn't that like the real world? If this were real, you wouldn't know what would happen down the track because of this.

This is all excellent info and makes the game sound better and better.

I would have to say the RW comparisons would end there, as in the RW the answer is to disarm both sides and teach them to learn to live together, instead of fear and hate.
When all you know and all you see is decided by violence, that's only way for you to communicate, even though solutions exist in reality you would never know.

Dusk

As for the decisions and consequences issue, I am happy to read Dhruin's posts. I am looking forward to your follow-ups, Dhruin.

Yes and Dhruin has the perfect excuse for his girlfriend, but honey it's for work.

I knew I had this for a reason.
http://img522.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stopplayingmatriximgxu9.gif

 

[chamr]

I hadHell since they tackle with adult themes they could have gone the extra mile and drawn some parallels between the kind of social rejection witchers *and* prostitutes face (they are receptacles of loathing and disgust but their services seem to be ever in high demand by the hypocrites ready to cast the first stone at them etc ... )

Now that would be some sophisticated writing and a truly adult theme, in the intellectual sense. Good idea, JonNik!

For the rest of you, I'd say that the world of the Witcher sounds so layered and interesting that I could see spin-off games from this in which you could play as.. say.. a female character or a mage, or a dwarf or elf, with an appropriate story built around them. If I were CDProjekt I would give that some consideration. It would be a refreshing change to see a sequel to a game (or add-on) that wouldn't necessitate playing the same character all over again.

Another fantastic idea! You guys are on fire in this thread.

There's no doubt that CDProjekt is taking a big gamble with Geralt not being customizable and the skill tree being pretty narrowly focused, as Dhurin's said. For a vast majority of us that replay games, it's pretty obvious to me it would be for the alternate choices alone that we'd do so in the Witcher. However, from what I've seen so far, CDProjekt's done a great job with presenting a strong character, a strong setting and some compelling gameplay mechanics that probably will balance out if not completely eclipse the limited character development/customization issue.

 

[Dusk]

Now that would be some sophisticated writing and a truly adult theme, in the intellectual sense. Good idea, JonNik!

JoNik's idea is great, I agree. However, I'd wait for some reviews since while back, watching one of the videos at Game Trailers didn't make me happy with the actual presentation in the game. At least, there is no doubt that this game depends heavily on the content.

 

[Sabre]

Card minigame.

Well, it doesn't depend.
As you already said, it's just mini-game.

Those unofficial movies on GT are screwed up. For me, it even seems like GT post those movies to decrease The Witcher's image. I would not suggest with them .

I agree that for some, cheap minigame (as you say) could be just for marketing purpose. I try to belive it's not. Maybe such mini game is little silly, but I hope developers had good intentions.

For me it's nice... mmm... "conversion" of sex theme from books into game. Yes - from books - in Saga, Geralt have sex from time to time with women so it was almost obvious that sex theme will exist in game. Did I mention, that developers were trying to make PC Game as similiar to books as possible?

Moreover - AFAIR - playing this minigame is not necessary to finish game, so you don't have to play it.

In my opinion, such minigame is better than hardporn cutscene or "making monitor screen dark" (like in some games... BG2 AFAIR - for me, _that is_ silly, it's making me feel like little kid and the game like mother covering my eyes with hand... -_-). This solution is both artistic and "socially proper" (if you know what I mean ).

And tell me, how many developers (CDPR is even debutant studio!) "had balls" to add such minigame in places or situations ASKING for it? They treat players like kid or I don't know. It's like typing "f***" <- anybody knows what this mean, so why not type "fuck"? Anybody knows that if you are going to back alley with prostitute, you are going to have sex, not play chess.

The problem is that we - poles and Sapkowski readers - are satisfied with the game. The world in game has similiar atmosphere like the one in books. We understand why Geralt customization is so narrow and why there is sex and violence in game, and why Geralt fights only two sword. But we love this character and we do accept all those limitations and solutions.
But somebody who doesn't love Geralt (yet ) may be unsatisfied, beacuse of not knowing the realities of the witcher's world.

 

[Dusk]

Well, it doesn't depend.
As you already said, it's just mini-game.

Have you watched the presentation in my previous post? It looked cheap and the conversation was rather uninspiring. Is that a faithful presentation of "maturity" in Spakowski's works? Rather than just the prostitutes being placeholders for the sake of "mature" aspect, I hope they would have their places in thematic senses like in JonNik's example. As for the question whether the mini-game is easily avoidable or not, different from tavern fighting and gambling mini-games, I couldn't tell when Geralt stumbled upon the card mini-game. Are players expected to be wondering if a female NPC is a "mini-game" activator or important NPC tied to the plot/theme?

Also, I was not simply talking of the mini-games when I was talking of the content since I still have my doubts on how the everything will turn out especially about the issue about decisions and the consequences. Can the players get satisfaction at the end of the story? For something works well in novel doesn't always work in games although I appreciate the attempt by the designer of the Witcher (BTW, Thanx for sharing your information on the world of the Witcher, Sabre).

However, though, don't take my comments as rants since I am simply interested in how the new attempts will turn out and I am far from the position to judge the game yet. Then, again, it is probably high time for me to sit back and wait till the words from RPGwatch team.

 

[Dhruin]

I've played that part. I agree it's uninspiring and it demonstrates the occasionally awkward dialogue. That said, she's a generic prostitute - you know she isn't an important part of the plot, because she doesn't have a name.

 

[Vurt]

Are there NPC schedules in this game, or do they stay put on the same place dayy/nigt (something i really dislike)

 

[Crolug]

Are there NPC schedules in this game, or do they stay put on the same place dayy/nigt (something i really dislike)

No, they wander. Depending on night/day or weather or their activities. During GC in Leipzig I played the game for some time and found a guy in an inn, alchemist, who wanted several ghulls' hearts, so I took the quest, went out for some hunting and after killing a few ghulls I realized that I don't know a damn thing about their anatomy, so proper cutting out the heart would me somewhat problematic, so I headed back to the inn, talk to the guy and ask if he could tell me something about ghulls. It was like, I don't know, 2 minutes later? They guy wasn't already there and sadly, I hadn't got time to look for him because my playtime was limited...

 

[mark]

No, they wander. Depending on night/day or weather or their activities. During GC in Leipzig I played the game for some time and found a guy in an inn, alchemist, who wanted several ghulls' hearts, so I took the quest, went out for some hunting and after killing a few ghulls I realized that I don't know a damn thing about their anatomy, so proper cutting out the heart would me somewhat problematic, so I headed back to the inn, talk to the guy and ask if he could tell me something about ghulls. It was like, I don't know, 2 minutes later? They guy wasn't already there and sadly, I hadn't got time to look for him because my playtime was limited...

Ha, this is soooo different from Oblivion. I like it

 

[zima98]

Dhruin

By not allowing us any customization, we English speaking potential fans will identify with Geralt less, it will be more like, "oh were playing some guy from a book" instead of a guy we helped build.
It's sort of like someone telling me well we sell 31 flavors of ice cream (RPG), but you can only have vanilla.
Vanilla is good but so are the other 30 flavors.

Well, all games are made under English speaking world - so I am glad at least one was made under me . Sapkowski books are popular in Estern Europe, also known and liked in Germany. So we're satisified that someone take us under concideration when the game was made. We invite you to Geralt's world, you would discover it with him. And to the game (as far as I know) will be added one of short stories about Geralt, so you'll able to know sth more about him.

And discussion about pre-definied characters in rpg reminds me: "Planescape: Torment" - one of the best rpg I played, though I couldn't change the gender, race or a hair colour of my character.

 

[Vurt]

No, they wander. Depending on night/day or weather or their activities. During GC in Leipzig I played the game for some time and found a guy in an inn, alchemist, who wanted several ghulls' hearts, so I took the quest, went out for some hunting and after killing a few ghulls I realized that I don't know a damn thing about their anatomy, so proper cutting out the heart would me somewhat problematic, so I headed back to the inn, talk to the guy and ask if he could tell me something about ghulls. It was like, I don't know, 2 minutes later? They guy wasn't already there and sadly, I hadn't got time to look for him because my playtime was limited...

Thanks, that sounds great I really hope this game'll kick ass, was a long time since i played a really good RPG (Gothic2)..

 

[Dhruin]

Can I just say that we should be careful with comparisons to Gothic 2? The Witcher doesn't have a continuous, seamless world, the combat premise is very different and I'd say that Gothic's AI (scripts, schedules) are more cohesive for me, although The Witcher might have more variation overall. On the other hand, The Witcher looks like a stronger story to me (so far)...there are definitely some similarities (that darker "Euro" feel, set protagonist, limited armours, "living" gameworld), but anyone that thinks this is just like Gothic will likely be disappointed.

 

[Dusk]

I've played that part. I agree it's uninspiring and it demonstrates the occasionally awkward dialogue. That said, she's a generic prostitute - you know she isn't an important part of the plot, because she doesn't have a name.

Thank you, Dhruin. The scene made me feel bitter with this aspect of the game but I think at least I should wait for your final report.

Can I just say that we should be careful with comparisons to Gothic 2? The Witcher doesn't have a continuous, seamless world, the combat premise is very different and I'd say that Gothic's AI (scripts, schedules) are more cohesive for me, although The Witcher might have more variation overall. On the other hand, The Witcher looks like a stronger story to me (so far)...there are definitely some similarities (that darker "Euro" feel, set protagonist, limited armours, "living" gameworld), but anyone that thinks this is just like Gothic will likely be disappointed.

In fact, it offended the feeling of a designer when a naive interviewer compared the Witcher with Oblivion. Following the information, the Witcher seems to be much more of narrativist (story-focused) than simulationist (sandbox-style) just like Planescape: Torment. Talking of PS:T, zima 98, if someone likes it recommends Spakowsky, it is a good sign to me. However, as I wrote, the narrativist aspect has a significant difference when there are no morality consensus and cause-results time-lag don't exist.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Thanks again, Dhruin. I have to admit that your description of the skill system left me feeling intellectually challenged, but the accompanying screens helped a lot.
Overall I am fairly confident that this is a game I will enjoy, although its once again RPG lite fare. I am pretty sure I won't be a fan of the combat system, although at least it seems more interesting as standard Diablo-clickery. But at least the game seems to come with a lot of interesting interaction with the gameworld, a fresh story and interesting setting.

 

[Dhruin]

I felt intellectually challenged writing it. I think I revised it too many times and ended up just muddying the waters. :/

 

[zima98]

There is an "old friend" that *looks* like a full romance - several quests in and I keep dropping hints but she isn't biting. Yet. I could be wrong, though.

mhm..is it possible? CdProjekt hasn't mentioned sth about sorceress with complicated personality and black, curling hair?

 

[p53]

mhm..is it possible? CdProjekt hasn't mentioned sth about sorceress with complicated personality and black, curling hairs?

Cause it seems it will be an old friend with a bit simpiler personality and RED curly hair. Am I right Dhruin ?

 

[Dhruin]

Actually, short red hair. I could be wrong but it *feels* like a romance at this point.