RPGWatch Feature - Risen Review

[skavenhorde]

I don't think I'm getting technical at all. If it's not being released till next year then it's obviously not part of this years games.

No, 2009 is not looking great, unless there's something I'm not aware of being released between now and the end of the year.

Mass Effect 2 - January 26th
Divinity 2 - January 5th

Both technically are next year, but who cares about a few days/weeks? I'll be playing them right after I get done with the current pile of games on my shelf. If even then and that is all that matters to me. Please don't say "BUT IT'S NEXT YEAR!" Yes, I know it is technically next year, but a few days/weeks do not matter to me. What does matter is that they are part of the storm of games that have appeared this holiday season and that I won't be finished playing until months after the new year.

So I take it a Gothic remake, Torchlight, Knights of the Chalice, Dragon Age and all the others that have been released recently is not what you would consider fun. What exactly would be fun then?

 

[Corwin]

Just to point out a technicality, but Div 2 has already been released everywhere BUT NA, so it's a 2009 release as far as I am concerned; the US is only a small part of the world!!

 

[JDR13]

Both technically are next year, but who cares about a few days/weeks? I'll be playing them right after I get done with the current pile of games on my shelf. If even then and that is all that matters to me. Please don't say "BUT IT'S NEXT YEAR!" Yes, I know it is technically next year, but a few days/weeks do not matter to me. What does matter is that they are part of the storm of games that have appeared this holiday season and that I won't be finished playing until months after the new year.

You have some interesting logic when you attempt to rationalize something skavenhorde, I'll give you that much.

Those game are next year, I'm not sure why that's so hard for you to accept. I don't care how early in the year they are, they're still next year. Oh, and the last time I checked, Jan 26th was definitely not part of the holiday season.

So I take it a Gothic remake, Torchlight, Knights of the Chalice, Dragon Age and all the others that have been released recently is not what you would consider fun. What exactly would be fun then?

Not sure what set you off on this tangent now, but I never implied that.

Seriously, did you forget to take your ritalin today or something?

 

[Gorath]

The question is "When do we consider a game released?"

AFAIR our standard at RPGWatch is "One English language release". In that sense Divinity 2 has been released, Venetica has not. One could also find arguments for NA, UK or first release in a major market (-> Germany, Poland, Russia).

 

[Daroou]

Just to point out a technicality, but Div 2 has already been released everywhere BUT NA, so it's a 2009 release as far as I am concerned; the US is only a small part of the world!!

Yes, and North America is much larger than just the US.

 

[Thrasher]

I wonder why the delay? Did they have to mod it to apply pasties to naughtie bits?

 

[Corwin]

I suspect they are changing the English accents to American ones, but I could be wrong.

 

[Alistair]

Accessibility, balancing, game performance (relative to the graphics), writing (international), voice acting (international), QA. The combat has not improved for True RPGers (tm).

Well, most of that is 'making it work ok' plus the writing and voice work, which was better. The stuff we actually play for, was the same old... until the later stages which were worse than the same old (as far as I can remember

 

[Dajjer]

Great Review Corwin and thanks for the hammer on the Risen ending. Someone posted that the game was a mixture of Gothic and Tomb Raider. Well, if the game started out like that, that would be fine, but to have that type of game mixture at the end only was a horrible design decision.

As far a 2009 being a good RPG year - no, it was a great RPG year
How come no ones mentioned Fallout 3? That was also a great game that had a somewhat nonsensical ending but Risen took the nonsense to a whole new level. And of course Dragon Age. (I'm about 2/3 of the way through)

Fallout, Risen and Dragon Age for 2009 and Divine Divinity, Venetica and Alpha Protocol looking to have what seems to be an imminent release. 2010 looks to be a good year also. Hmmm, We might be in the midst of some kind of RPG golden age.

 

[skavenhorde]

You have some interesting logic when you attempt to rationalize something skavenhorde, I'll give you that much.

Those game are next year, I'm not sure why that's so hard for you to accept. I don't care how early in the year they are, they're still next year. Oh, and the last time I checked, Jan 26th was definitely not part of the holiday season.

Didn't I say something about not saying "BUT IT'S NEXT YEAR?"

I'm not trying to rationlize anything. It's how I see it. Maybe this might help you understand. Take end of the year awards. Do you think that Mass Effect 2 or Divinity 2 will even be considered next year? I don't think so. They'll be too old and all the excitement will be for whatever is released next holiday season.

Anyways….I think it was a great year and will only get better (hopefully) next year. All of these games were what I would call a fun game:Risen, Dragon Age, KOTC, Blood Bowl, Drakensang, Warhammer: Dawn of War II, Solium Infernum, NWN 2: Westgate, Hinterland, Trine, Torchlight, Borderlands, Ultima 6 (Beta still, but I'm enjoying it) and now King Arthur.

I have way too many good games to play now and it only gets better a few days after the new year. So for me a pretty darn good year (except for my wallet)

Oh, BTW, I said STARTED at the holiday season, not after. You know the storm of games that have been recently released. I won't be finished with those and the few that are released in January for quite awhile.

Not sure what set you off on this tangent now, but I never implied that.

Seriously, did you forget to take your ritalin today or something?

I wasn't on a tangent. I am really curious. What would it take for you to be content? No sarcasm implied here just actual genuine curiosity.

Oh and since I didn't personally attack you I would appreciate it if you layed off the jokes.

Just to be clear here, you can think all you want about the year. It doesn't matter to me, I'm just curious why you think it was bad. I'm not knocking you in any way shape or form…ok

 

[JDR13]

I'm not trying to rationlize anything. It's how I see it. Maybe this might help you understand. Take end of the year awards. Do you think that Mass Effect 2 or Divinity 2 will even be considered next year? I don't think so. They'll be too old and all the excitement will be for whatever is released next holiday season.

This really means a lot to you, doesn't it?

Not sure where you're going with awards thing, but to answer your question - yes, they will be part of next years awards. They certainly aren't part of 2009's awards now are they? That's totally irrelevant though, and doesn't change the fact that the US doesn't get those games in 2009.

I wasn't on a tangent. I am really curious. What would it take for you to be content? No sarcasm implied here just actual genuine curiosity.

Oh and since I didn't personally attack you I would appreciate it if you layed off the jokes.

Just to be clear here, you can think all you want about the year. It doesn't matter to me, I'm just curious why you think it was bad. I'm not knocking you in any way shape or form…ok

No offense skavenhorde, but sometimes you seem prone to knee-jerk reactions without really reading what's been posted. Go back and review this thread, and you'll see that I never once said was a "bad" year in gaming. I simply don't think it was a *great* year for crpgs, and I've already given the reasons.

Now then, maybe we can talk about Risen, since that's the original topic.

 

[skavenhorde]

This really means a lot to you, doesn't it?

Not sure where you're going with awards thing, but to answer your question - yes, they will be part of next years awards. They certainly aren't part of 2009's awards now are they? That's totally irrelevant though, and doesn't change the fact that the US doesn't get those games in 2009.

If they win I'll be a monkey's uncle. Maybe I shouldn't of said "considered" of course they'll be considered, but do they have a chance against games that are just released and people are playing them vs a game they played a long time ago? Just take a look at the comments on Drakensang. Everyone forgot that that game was released this year.

I've seen it happen more than a few times where games get overlooked because they we released too early in the year like January 5th. So while they are still not part of this year they are part of my gaming year. Keyword in that sentence was "my".

It does mean a lot to me to express my opinion to someone who doesn't quite understand it. Call it the teacher in me . A different way of looking at something is never a bad thing, imo.

No offense skavenhorde, but sometimes you seem prone to knee-jerk reactions without really reading what's been posted. Go back and review this thread, and you'll see that I never once said was a "bad" year in gaming. I simply don't think it was a *great* year for crpgs, and I've already given the reasons.

No offense taken. Although I do read everything, I just sometimes misinterpret what I read. Easy to do with the written language, at least it's easy for me to do anyways. Speed reading has it's drawbacks.

I do sometimes get peeved when I see more crying over spilled milk situations. It's been the best year I have had in such a long time that I can't even remember when. Hell around this time I'm usually hunting down indies or maybe 1 AAA game that is of any worth.

This year there are just far too many to choose from. I literally have 8 games right now on my shelf and I haven't even gotten to half of them. Some RPGs, some strategy, but all good fun.

Now then, maybe we can talk about Risen, since that's the original topic.

Sure, but I am not joking about being curious about what would make a good year for you? Maybe I'm not seeing it from a certain perspective. I would honestly like to know what you would think would make a good or great year?

 

[JDR13]

I've seen it happen more than a few times where games get overlooked because they we released too early in the year like January 5th. So while they are still not part of this year they are part of my gaming year. Keyword in that sentence was "my".

Ok, well "your" gaming year seems to be a bit different from the rest of ours.

Sure, but I am not joking about being curious about what would make a good year for you? Maybe I'm not seeing it from a certain perspective. I would honestly like to know what you would think would make a good or great year?

I'll humor you one more time skavenhorde, but I'll be honest, I think you're just dragging the topic out at this point, and the shit is starting to get old.

We had one great crpg in 2009 in DA:O. Then we had Risen, a game that most of us here at the Watch seemed to enjoy, but only scored an average of 77% in its reviews. We also had Drakensang, which seems to be hit or miss depending on who you talk to, and scored an average of 75% in it's reviews. Now look at what's left after those 3 games for NA gamers…not much. You have Torchlight, which is great IF you're really looking for yet another Diablo clone, or you're just satisfied with a simple action-RPG.

Now what's left? I've only named 4 crpgs, one of which is an arpg, and I'm already struggling to think of another one that was released in the US in 2009. Geneforge? Avernum? Pretty bad when you're already down to indies at this point.

So there you have it, please don't try to tell me that it was a "great" year for crpgs in the US. You're more than welcome to believe it yourself if you choose, but I think we can agree that this discussion has run its course.

 

[Thrasher]

But JDR, you still haven't answered his question. What would be great year per your standards? Can you cite any great years in the past, and if so what makes them great?

I think this year was a good year, as I said before. Not great. Not sure if any year has been great, quite frankly. There have been a load of shitty ones though.

 

[skavenhorde]

So there you have it, please don't try to tell me that it was a "great" year for crpgs in the US. You're more than welcome to believe it yourself if you choose, but I think we can agree that this discussion has run its course.

Ok, back to Risen then. Although I think this topic is directly related to Risen. You don't have to give an example of a good year if you don't want. It's no big deal since I was just curious.

 

[txa1265]

We had one great crpg in 2009 in DA:O. Then we had Risen, a game that most of us here at the Watch seemed to enjoy, but only scored an average of 77% in its reviews. We also had Drakensang, which seems to be hit or miss depending on who you talk to, and scored an average of 75% in it's reviews. Now look at what's left after those 3 games for NA gamers…not much. You have Torchlight, which is great IF you're really looking for yet another Diablo clone, or you're just satisfied with a simple action-RPG.

You're seriously going to quote review scores? Then please toss out any support of Gothic 1, 2, VtM Bloodlines, Arcanum, ToEE, Wizardry 8, and on and on and on. Those are obviously not good and certainly not great based on *your own* criteria.

So 2009 wasn't great ... what about 2008? We had the decent console port Fallout 3, the other console port Mass Effect, the retread of the 2007 Witcher game, the non-RPG King's Bounty, and heck, the action-RPGs (best was Sacred 2) weren't even as good as Torchlight.

2007? Witcher - " which seems to be hit or miss depending on who you talk to" Other top RPG was an expansion (Mask of the Betrayer). Of course, many of us would rate those much higher than their review scores, but that just gets to the earlier bit.

2006 was Oblivion, NWN2, G3 and Titan Quest ... yeah, THAT was stellar!

2005 ... and so on ...

I'm not disagreeing with you necessarily, but I think 2009 is better than you give it credit for ... Risen is better than the vast majority of RPGs in the last 5 years, as is Drakensang. Torchlight is the most polished non-Blizzard action-RPG perhaps ever, and I consider it one of the very top games in that sub-genre.

But I also look at it this way ... RPGs might not have had a super year, but it was better than shooters!

 

[JDR13]

Seems there's more than one person here who's still missing the point . It's not about comparing it to other years, it's just about whether or not 2009 was a "great" year.

 

[JDR13]

You're seriously going to quote review scores? Then please toss out any support of Gothic 1, 2, VtM Bloodlines, Arcanum, ToEE, Wizardry 8, and on and on and on. Those are obviously not good and certainly not great based on *your own* criteria.

I'm really not worried about what you think of *my own* criteria, but it was just a general example, I don't actually put that much stock in review scores. Nevermind that neither Risen or Drakensang are on the same level as most of the games you just listed.

I'm not disagreeing with you necessarily, but I think 2009 is better than you give it credit for … Risen is better than the vast majority of RPGs in the last 5 years, as is Drakensang. Torchlight is the most polished non-Blizzard action-RPG perhaps ever, and I consider it one of the very top games in that sub-genre.

Drakensang one of the best RPGs in the last 5 years? Torchlight the best "non-Blizzard" action-RPG ever? The problem is that you're taking your own personal opinions and stating them as if they were facts.

 

[Corwin]

Your problem, is that this is an INTERNATIONAL site, NOT a US site!! Div 2 was released Internationally in 2009, so it is a 2009 release!! Just cause for once you don't get it at the same time as the rest of the world means squat!! With all the games that were released Internationally, 2009 was a very good year for RPG's!!

 

[DArtagnan]

I'm getting that deja-vu feeling