Skyrim - Hi-Res Screens

[rune_74]

Who is hating on it? Who is overly defensive?

@rune_17 Good or bad, screenies do not determine the goodness of an RPG.

And yet, we get comments on the game when all they have seen is screenshots.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

These screens leave me non-plussed. Nothing breakthough in them. Just looks like a slightly (and only VERY slightly) upgraded Oblivion. Is that the best they can do? Sigh….

I actually think the time of breakthrough GFX are nearing the end anyway, improvements have been incremental for a while now. Partly that may be owed to the lifespan of the current console generation, as Dhruin pointed out. But I think the technology per se has reached a level where progress is really on ly in the details and people are less likely to notice a game for the GFX alone. At least that is true for the rendering per se. There is room for improvement in the number of actors on screen and the way they interact, in facial and general animation and in the way scenes and NPC actors can be "directed" (the Witcher 2 conversation system, for example). Or in art style and design. But these are already things that don't show up on screenshots. It's a good thing, actually, it means developers may find it more profitable to focus on different things to sell their games.

 

[ToddMcF2002]

Creating the art assets is likely the limiting factor going forward - not rendering them. Games are already getting shorter because of it.

 

[Thrasher]

And yet, we get comments on the game when all they have seen is screenshots.

It's perfectly valid to criticize the appearance of the game based on screenshots.

 

[pibbur]

I don't really agree. You can tell a game is using Unreal Engine 3 the moment you see it, same with id Tech 4. Engines can often be instantly recognizeable despite artistic differences.

How can you tell the engine froms a couple of screenshots?

...

 

[DoctorNarrative]

How can you tell the engine froms a couple of screenshots?

The general look, the way the lighting is, the way geometry interacts with each other, character models, textures, etc. etc.. You can tell the UE3 look from a mile away, like I said... at least some people can.

I am not saying it won't be heavily updated, but that looks like the same basic tech as Morrowind and Oblivion to me. There's nothing wrong with that, I'm not criticizing the game really. I am just saying that the way they are talking about it as an "all new engine" might be deceiving if it is just updated tech again on the same base. They might change so much it won't bother anyone though, or the game might be Oblivion with better character models.

Again: we shall see.

 

[DArtagnan]

While I don't think you can be certain from screenshots, I do tend to agree that some engines reveal themselves in subtle ways. But it all depends on how much the developers change it and the various visual systems.

Mostly, I need to see something running before I can be sure - but there are cases of being able to spot the engine with reasonable certainty based on a screenshot.

Dead Space is a good example of how it can be hard - because it LOOKS a lot like the Unreal engine in the screens - but when you play it, it's obviously something else. It's about the "feel and flow" of movement/animation as much as anything else. Also about lighting, models, and textures.

I don't think I've yet to play an Unreal game without being aware of it within 5 minutes. I guess it's because most developers don't bother changing everything at the core - even though they love to claim how they rewrite all the systems. I bet Unreal is pretty good at handling lighting, models, and whatever - so what's changed at the core is probably pretty minor.

About the latest Gamebryo iteration, I think Skyrim - visually - looks quite fantastic based on these screens. Easily one of the best looking games in the genre - and perhaps THE best looking.

But that's just what I think.

TES always looked fantastic in screenshots. I'm much more concerned with how it will play.

 

[GothicGothicness]

Isn't it the gameplay that counts? Are we really saying this level of graphics isn't good enough?

I think a lot of people agree with my earlier posts. No one expects any good gameplay..... so we're going to use this as a world simulator.. for such a thing graphics is what matters.....

 

[bemushroomed]

I think gameplay is going to be better than Oblivion. You can see in FO3 that they're learning.. I'm quite hyped I think a _lot_ of people agree with me on that more so than those that are sceptical..

 

[DArtagnan]

I think gameplay is going to be better than Oblivion. You can see in FO3 that they're learning.. I'm quite hyped I think a _lot_ of people agree with me on that more so than those that are sceptical..

Not that I don't think it will be better, but I wouldn't be too sure that FO3 is particularly strong evidence.

Afterall, they based FO3 largely on the previous Fallouts in terms of many gameplay mechanics, and even so - they managed to reduce it in several ways.

I certainly don't see how we can be sure that they're going to turn Skyrim into Fallout in terms of mechanics. Well, they've decided to use perks - and that IS a good sign, but it's not clear exactly what those perks will do.

Naturally, that's just my opinion - but at this stage we have almost zero information about how Skyrim will truly play - so any negative or positive expectation is going to be loose speculation.

 

[Nerevarine]

I think a lot of people agree with my earlier posts. No one expects any good gameplay….. so we're going to use this as a world simulator.. for such a thing graphics is what matters…..

No one? I think you mean that the anti-Bethesda faction that has a huge bias against anything they ever do doesn't expect good gameplay. I certainly expect good gameplay, but that's because I actually like the Elder Scrolls and I also enjoyed Fallout 3. I'm a huge fan of other open world RPGs, especially the Gothic series, Risen, and Divinity 2 for example, but I've always found the Elder Scrolls to be more immersive for me, so I'm definitely looking forward to Skyrim. I'm sure there are others on this site who are also looking forward to Skyrim, but they probably realize that saying so isn't worth the admonishment that I'm likely to receive for saying something positive about Elder Scrolls. But hey, someone has to be brave enough to post something that is objectively positive to balance things out, right?

Edit: It appears that bemushroomed has actually beaten me to the punch with a positive comment. Well done, good sir!

 

[zadokAllen]

I actually think the time of breakthrough GFX are nearing the end anyway, improvements have been incremental for a while now.

I remember my mate once commenting on a game: "Graphics cant` get any better…this is it for videogames." For a second I took his words seriously - it was a chilling prospect.

The game in question was "Castle Master" on C64.

Until we reach videogame singularity - photorealistic graphics - there`s plenty room for improvement. Problem is even devs seem to be scared of it…

 

[bemushroomed]

Not that I don't think it will be better, but I wouldn't be too sure that FO3 is particularly strong evidence.

Afterall, they based FO3 largely on the previous Fallouts in terms of many gameplay mechanics, and even so - they managed to reduce it in several ways.

Which mechanics? I think it resembles Oblivion much more so than the old FO's. And yes, the perks are now also in Skyrim it seems (280 of them).

Like always i'm not expecting a 100% perfect game out of the box, just like all their other games i'm gonna play it on PC and fully modded (I'll probably wait a few months for mods). I needed far less mods to enjoy FO3 than to enjoy Oblivion though. Better combat, better animations, just those fixes will make it a lot better than Oblivion (which wasnt a BAD game, i've spent hundreds of hours with it to be completely honest, i love to pick on it anyways though ).

 

[pibbur]

Personally I go for "good enough" graphics. And in my book for instance World of Warcraft is good enough. The only thing graphics beyond that gives me is the "Awesome!" factor which is nice, but doesn't affect how much I enjoy a game.

I wish the developers spent their resources on other things. Which they won't do.

 

[GothicGothicness]

I certainly expect good gameplay, but that's because I actually like the Elder Scrolls and I also enjoyed Fallout 3. I'm a huge fan of other open world RPGs, especially the Gothic series, Risen, and Divinity 2 for example, but I've always found the Elder Scrolls to be more immersive for me, so I'm definitely looking forward to Skyrim.

Certainly everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However may I ask which aspects of the Oblivion gameplay it is that you enjoyed? ( I am speaking about the vanilla version )

 

[DArtagnan]

Which mechanics? I think it resembles Oblivion much more so than the old FO's. And yes, the perks are now also in Skyrim it seems (280 of them).

The entire SPECIAL system, which is pretty much entirely from Fallout.

In terms of gameplay, I think it resembles what would happen to Fallout if you streamlined gameplay and made it first person.

Like always i'm not expecting a 100% perfect game out of the box, just like all their other games i'm gonna play it on PC and fully modded (I'll probably wait a few months for mods). I needed far less mods to enjoy FO3 than to enjoy Oblivion though. Better combat, better animations, just those fixes will make it a lot better than Oblivion (which wasnt a BAD game, i've spent hundreds of hours with it to be completely honest, i love to pick on it anyways though ).

I don't expect anything, really - except something resembling what has come before.

I prefer to see something released, before I get really excited - unless I have something tangible to tell me what it's going to be.

So far, we have too little information for me to get excited.

I do know, though, that I used to get really excited about TES games - from Daggerfall to Oblivion - and they've all been hugely disappointing when compared to the hype.

So, I don't really want to get caught up in hype - and I want to try to learn from the past.

But, if you loved Morrowind/Oblivion - I can certainly understand the excitement. I'm sure you'll get something resembling those games.

I liked both games after mods - but they both had severe flaws. But it took me a few weeks with each of them, before realising how flawed they were - as they were so huge.

I'm actually looking forward to a similar experience - and if Skyrim is equally flawed - it will still take me a week or so of being excited and entertained. That's kinda what I'm expecting - and I prefer to be pleasantly surprised if it turns out great.

 

[DoctorNarrative]

Bethesda's games are good for a lot of reasons that are different from why a Bioware game is good, or an Obsidian game (or Black Isle for that matter). If you like the things Bethesda does well (exploration, combat, world building, mod tools) then you will like Bethesda's games. If you consider one of the things they don't do well to be essential (choice and consequence, writing, character uniqueness) then you will likely be turned off their games.

I'm pretty easy going with RPGs... Western RPGs anyway. I liked Oblivion as an open world hack n' slash game with pretty areas to explore. I am sure Skyrim will be a good game for the same reasons, though if it improves in other areas it can be an even better game.

 

[DArtagnan]

They're particularly bad at certain basic design concepts, like the sensation of progression and challenging and meaningful combat - and those are some of the main reasons I didn't like the previous games.

I can live with the writing and the limited C&C in such a huge game.

It's a pity, though, because I think such things are incredibly simple to do in ways that work well.

 

[Nerevarine]

Certainly everyone is entitled to their own opinion. However may I ask which aspects of the Oblivion gameplay it is that you enjoyed? ( I am speaking about the vanilla version )

I would love to, but keep in mind that I used mods to remove level-scaling and de-randomize the loot. Other then that, I kept Oblivion very vanilla with no drastic or dramatic changes.

I would say that similar to why I enjoy any of the Elder Scrolls games and Fallout 3, I really enjoy the exploration and the overall atmosphere of the game world. I always feel compelled to simply explore the world in Elder Scrolls games; it becomes my "main quest" in a way, and it satisfies my desire to take a seemingly endless adventure in a foreign world. Random walks throughout the map just seem to yield new adventures and more sights to see. There's just something about randomly exploring the Elder Scrolls universe that captivates me more than exploration typically does in other open world games.

I can see why the lack of a good story would be off-putting, but the Elder Scrolls is one of the few series of games where I don't need a story to feel like my character is on an epic adventure; the open-ended nature of the game gives a player the freedom to almost create their character's own story. In a way, the random experiences created by exploration become a unique story by itself - if you use some imagination - and because of the open-ended nature of the game, no two "stories" will be the same. There is simply so much to do and see outside of the main storyline that a player could invest 100 hours into an Elder Scrolls game without ever touching the main story and still feel like they were part of an epic journey (if the sandbox experience and lack of direction appeals to them). This sort of player freedom is a very rare thing, and combined with what i personally find to be a solid and unique atmosphere, it is easily my favorite aspect of any Elder Scrolls game.

It's very difficult to describe why I enjoy the Elder Scrolls series, especially since not everyone enjoys open-world games for the same reasons that I do, and also because I recognize that the Elder Scrolls is more flawed in some ways compared to other open-world series. I guess I just enjoy letting my imagination run wild in a huge world full of potential adventure, and the Elder Scrolls has also always had an alluring atmosphere and intriguing lore that allows me to thoroughly enjoy exploring the game world in spite of the obvious (and to some, many) shortcomings.

 

[zadokAllen]

I can live with the writing and the limited C&C in such a huge game.

It's a pity, though, because I think such things are incredibly simple to do in ways that work well.

I don`t care much for writing - as long as it`s not atrocious, I`m writing my own adventure in my head anyway. This is the perk of being brought up with games where "writing" was a line of text every now and then. Sometimes even a full-screen graphic!

I also quite often think "sheesh, even I could fix this or that...sooo easy". But in case of Bethsoft I can sort of be more forgiving - the worlds they create are certainly not easy to build. Otherwise they would not be the only ones doing it.

I`m talking fully realised, first-person, trek-to-the-horizon, no invisible walls, total movement control affairs. Impressive stuff.