Skyrim - What We're Working On

Well personally I don't trust Steam that much. It fails frequently on offline mode which really annoys me (Skyrim is single player right?) auto updates on occasions when it shouldn't. It breaks games requiring cache validation in Skyrim's case.

The only reason I like it is because it is frequently the cheapest option and they maintain the library of games so I can clear out my hard drive at will.
 
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the major sales of a game take place in the first six months, and all of this will only really fully unfold months/years after the initial sales period
You forget about DLCs. They already announced plans and this time DLCs are going to be bigger than for Oblivion more like Morrowind expansions. AFAIR Tribunal and Bloodmoon were published respectively 6 month and 12 month after release of Morrowind which makes this argument of yours very shortsighted. Beth knows how to spend money and how to earn them.
 
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@screeg I did not detect any sarcasm from your statement above ;)
 
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The only problem that I see with the idea is in modder motivation. Why should a modder care if their mod makes it through steam authorization when they can put their mod up on the nexus without any hassle? I'll be curious as to how the creation kit's EULA reads this time around.
 
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Sure they broke it, but they have alot on their plate with multiple platforms and the PC is a mess with the open architecture + modding.

That's a bad reason and poor excuse. Just because the same bugs were across multiple platforms is not a reason that fixing the same exact in-game bug is any more difficult.

The open architecture had little or nothing to do with the problems of the PC version and much more to do with a sloppy UI implementation and insufficient play testing to find the vertical mouse movement tied to FPS bug. That bug had nothing to do with open architecture of the PC.

Modding had absolutely NOTHING to do with the patch whatsoever so why do you even bring that up?!?! (no don't answer that, please)
 
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The only problem that I see with the idea is in modder motivation. Why should a modder care if their mod makes it through steam authorization when they can put their mod up on the nexus without any hassle? I'll be curious as to how the creation kit's EULA reads this time around.

Exposure and ease of use for people getting hold of the mod. They also said you just push a button - that's easier for me as a modder than submitting to Nexus, even if there is then an authorisation delay - as a modder if it doesn't take my time then I don't mind.
 
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I think you misunderstood Daroou. Bethesda has to allow their game to be open to modification. That causes some issues when fixing bugs. If you fix issue A, it might make it where modders won't be able to manipulate a certain area of the game because of your fix. All fixes need to take future modding into consideration.
 
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Exposure and ease of use for people getting hold of the mod. They also said you just push a button - that's easier for me as a modder than submitting to Nexus, even if there is then an authorisation delay - as a modder if it doesn't take my time then I don't mind.

Good points. I wasn't thinking it through clearly, obviously. If the EULA isn't too restrictive, then this could be a good thing. I wonder if mods like HGEC are going to be nixed though.
 
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Steam Workshop. I presume it's going to be one of the biggest mistake in bethosft community strategy. For years Beth kept its hands clear from handling modding community. Of course they had some influence primarily through proxies like Nexus which claims to be independent. Still generally Beth was playing more like observation role rather than moderation one. Changing the stance will make them a likely target both for all sorts of moralist-purist idiots and antagonize big portion of modding community which is used to more anarchic and free environment.

I read others' responds to your post here and it looked to me like they misinterpreted your words. I agree with your concern. Before with Fallout3/NV/Oblivion/Morrowind/etc there was a clear and definite line of separation with mods. Now with Skyrim that line is blurred.

But I do like the idea that this might help migrate some great mods to the consoles. It will also help non-technical PC players install some mods. I am thinking that installing a lot of mods will not be possible with the Steam Workshop because it won't correctly set the mod load order.
 
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They also said you just push a button -


'… and something awesome happens'

I heard that one already. But seriously do you believe that a person who invested time\effort\passion into mod is ready willingly submit it for authorization to unknown corporate official. How many mods have you made? I've done a couple, both were mediocre and simple even by most lenient standards. But I hold them dear to my heart and would send into Oblivion anyone who dares to usurp the right to decide if they are good enough for release or not. How many those like me among ordinary modders? I guess majority.
Situation with famous modders who already known in community even worse. They are free artists in true sense of this word and are very delicate when it comes to dealing with them.
Take a look at Nexus they already lost many great contributors due to zealots like Buddah and Thandal and I don't believe Beth-Valve Workshop is going to be more flexible or smarter than Nexus team.
 
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But I do like the idea that this might help migrate some great mods to the consoles. It will also help non-technical PC players install some mods. I am thinking that installing a lot of mods will not be possible with the Steam Workshop because it won't correctly set the mod load order.
I wish good luck with that although it would be probably against laws of nature. Mods and consoles are not compatible at their core. The former are expression of ultimate freedom, the latter is synonym for absolute control. The mod which is not moddable is not a mod …
 
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'… and something awesome happens'

I heard that one already. But seriously do you believe that a person who invested time\effort\passion into mod is ready willingly submit it for authorization to unknown corporate official. How many mods have you made? I've done a couple, both were mediocre and simple even by most lenient standards. But I hold them dear to my heart and would send into Oblivion anyone who dares to usurp the right to decide if they are good enough for release or not. How many those like me among ordinary modders? I guess majority.
Situation with famous modders who already known in community even worse. They are free artists in true sense of this word and are very delicate when it comes to dealing with them.
Take a look at Nexus they already lost many great contributors due to zealots like Buddah and Thandal and I don't believe Beth-Valve Workshop is going to be more flexible or smarter than Nexus team.

People will go to where the mods are - as they do now. This will likely be the most restrictinve and (initially) could be the most problematic unless they already have conflict and load order managment down. Nexus has a huge content advantage out of the gate and likely will for quite some time.

What would be nice would be if they included the ability for the user to add RSS feeds from other other sites for the purpose of displaying mods and version info on installed mods - granted Steam, Bethesda, and third party sites would likely all want that to just be a link to the mod page. While I do see their Steam Workshop mod repository just another competing mod repository, it is uniquely advantaged and disadvantaged. If they do produce a superior mod-management tool then I would like to have the ability to use it with mods from other sites - even if compatibility with their content browser were out of the question. I'm fairly confident I'll still be getting a lot of my mods from Nexus (as I'll download half-finished works in progress that might not be up to their standards just to play around with them) so if they do develop a better mod-manager eventually I'd like to be able to use it.

And on a related and very important note:

Holiday Greetings from Sanguine, a random Argonian, Alduin, and Bethesda staffers old and young alike (the old guy is looking a bit crazed though)

and it's probably old and you've all already seen it, but...

Their Totally Real and Cynical Attempt to Cash-in on Skyrim Popularity by Producing a Skyrim-Themed Kids' Cartoon which Totally Proves They're the Types of Greedy Bastards who will Absolutely Monetize Player-Created Content Because this is Real
 
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I hate you for prompting me to rant so early in the morning. You are damned - and my broken coffee pot is twice damned.

No. The idiots aren't in the companies they're on blogs, in the sumpreme court, and in national and state legistlatures. This all stems from the fact that obscenity law in the United States is as ridiculous as it is vague and arbitrary and because the ESRB simultaneously offers a shield against liability in relation to obscenity laws while crafting their ratings to appease the noisiest reactionary prudes. Also while the US supreme court has ruled their ratings can not be given defacto force of law, they have still held that the obscenity of a thing on its own merits can justify legal restrictions on its sale and distribution.

PS On Steam Works, Team Fortress 2 has about 3000 mods but only about 40 of them have been approved for download. If everyone decided to put their mods on Steam Works it would kill the modding community unless they put the mods both places.

So the incestous machinery of video-game censorship starts (or ends) with how the ESRB crafts ratings around the loudest righteous-indignation over specific content (turns out that in the US the loudest prudes get their pilgrim-era-pantaloons in a knot over sexual content first and foremost and then certain types of extreme violent content but typically more so when crime or sex is also involved). Retailers seek to limit their liability in the face of 50 different states with inconsistent treatment of, reaction to, and ways of defining "obscenity" by treating these ratings as meaningful guidelines and adhering to ESRB recommended restrictions in policy if not in action.

That so many of them do so is really the core of the defense this offers them - since it is "universally accepted" they can protect against the allegation that they knowingly and improperly sold obscene material by arguing they took appropriate measures and acted in good faith compliance with state and local laws. By simply not carrying any "adult only" titles and restricting "M" rated sales they protect themselves against boycotts and legal threats with effectively though with the grace and elegance of explosive-backed ablative armor plating. Finally, as a matter of practicality, game developers conform to these ratings and the reality that "M" rated titles will see a smaller potential audience and that "Ao" titles will have little to no retail presence whatsoever.

Additionally "Ao" and "unrated" titles will attract the attention of the same loud prudish anti-video game zealots whose preferences inform the crafting of the rating system itself and highlight them as targets for boycott and potentially legal action claiming them to be obscene. While the supreme court has acknowledged that an "Ao" label does not automatically mean the material can be considered obscene, they still affirm that obscenity can be subject to legal restriction and if you're going to chose something as the target of your rabid self-righteous buffoonery then its probably going to be the things the rating-system which caters to your rabid self-righteous buffoonery says you'll hate.

So the gaming companies are being pragmatic in such decisions, even if they might lack a degree of courage in them. The retailers are also being pragmatic in a hamfisted way, though perhaps even less brave and with a bit of culpability since they give the extra-legal and unelected ESRB its real power. The ESRB is filling the vacuum caused by the inconsistent and vague legal concept of "obscenity" in the US - that they do so capriciously, lazily, are easily influenced by outside pressure makes them awful and sniveling but not necessarily idiots. I'd call them cunningly adapted parasites. The real idiocy can be found in the law and legal decisions surrounding it.

I don't know how what I said has anything to do with what you said. I wasn't talking about sex and extreme violence in that quote and was talking about developers and publishers specifically saying that Americans can't handle "nudity" in games. The only time I mentioned sex and extreme violence was in relation to what gets an AO rating. There have never been problems with any media (at least for a long time) that has nudity in it being accused of violating obscenity laws. A good example of what I was talking about with people saying that Americans can't handle nudity is with The Witcher but if I remember right the uncensored version eventually did get released in America with the Enhanced Edition.
 
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I bought the Witcher 2 just a few weeks ago from a brick and mortar Best Buy (a huge American big box retailer) and I'm pretty sure it shows female nudity in the very beginning. (scene in the tent before the prologue, though I haven't played it very much to be honest)
 
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Hey, I thought Bethesda rarely updated their games and put all their resources into consoles. What the hell? ;)

What patches for the pc version as well. Yes there commitment to the pc is over whelming.

Now stop bothering me so I can get to playing skyrim on pc.

Let me see, disable the default xbox 360 controller and vibration option. download laa user patch to use more than 2 gigs of mem. and stop ctd. edit my ini. settings, download texture mods to take advantage of the pc's extra power then disable sli as it's not needed. Edit my mouse buttons to act as keys that are editable as only 4 of my 13 mouse buttons seem to be editable in game settings. Download user patch so I can change hardcoded keys.

There ready to play just start up the game go in to setting and turn on all the dx 11 eye candy, sure is great having a pc capable of that. Now where are those settings can't seem to find them. Oh well i'm sure in all the time they were put in to tweaking pc controls just right they forgot about dx 11. I'll just play anyway and when my mouse becomes unresponsive in menu's i'll just ignore that as i'm sure it has nothing to do with the default 360 controller option.

I for 1 am very lucky to be a pc gamer having devs focus and cater to my every whim. Thanks for pointing that out.

Btw, what was left out on your xbox or ps3 version. What nothing??? You mean your not only using 1/2 the capabilities of your gaming system and your default controller options are fully supported. Wow your really missing out.
 
What patches for the pc version as well. Yes there commitment to the pc is over whelming.

Now stop bothering me so I can get to playing skyrim on pc.

Let me see, disable the default xbox 360 controller and vibration option. download laa user patch to use more than 2 gigs of mem. and stop ctd. edit my ini. settings, download texture mods to take advantage of the pc's extra power then disable sli as it's not needed. Edit my mouse buttons to act as keys that are editable as only 4 of my 13 mouse buttons seem to be editable in game settings. Download user patch so I can change hardcoded keys.

There ready to play just start up the game go in to setting and turn on all the dx 11 eye candy, sure is great having a pc capable of that. Now where are those settings can't seem to find them. Oh well i'm sure in all the time they were put in to tweaking pc controls just right they forgot about dx 11. I'll just play anyway and when my mouse becomes unresponsive in menu's i'll just ignore that as i'm sure it has nothing to do with the default 360 controller option.

I for 1 am very lucky to be a pc gamer having devs focus and cater to my every whim. Thanks for pointing that out.

Btw, what was left out on your xbox or ps3 version. What nothing??? You mean your not only using 1/2 the capabilities of your gaming system and your default controller options are fully supported. Wow your really missing out.

Uh, I play on PC. I installed it and started playing on High graphics settings. The only thing I've changed is tuning off antialiasing (seems to run a little smoother this way) and changing the FOV angle using the console.

I've had one crash in ~30 hours playing. The update didn't seem to mess with my game at all, or at least nothing I've noticed.

Sorry you're having problems. But the truth is games are going to run better for most people on the fixed, standardized equipment in a console. PCs are all over the place. Put the game down for a few months and come back after the next several updates and patches.
 
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I don't know how what I said has anything to do with what you said. I wasn't talking about sex and extreme violence in that quote and was talking about developers and publishers specifically saying that Americans can't handle "nudity" in games. The only time I mentioned sex and extreme violence was in relation to what gets an AO rating. There have never been problems with any media (at least for a long time) that has nudity in it being accused of violating obscenity laws. A good example of what I was talking about with people saying that Americans can't handle nudity is with The Witcher but if I remember right the uncensored version eventually did get released in America with the Enhanced Edition.

Yeah, that's the point - they don't think that. I'm saying you've fingered the wrong prudes and that thought comes from entirely outside the gaming industry. The behavior which leads you to feel like they think that way is the pragmatic response to the lack of clarity on obscenity in regards to video games specifically and the way in which the ESRB has poorly substituted for such clarity in such a way that is biased strongly towards a particular and peculiar viewpoint. The FCC and other regulatory agencies provide a great bit more clarity with regard to what is and isn't obscene but this clarity is limited to the mediums within their jurisdiction.

So yes some people do think Americans can't handle nudity, but they're not running the gaming industry or the retailers and online-distributors they rely on. They exert unwarranted influence that might make one think these value judgements originate within the industry because of the ambiguity in terms of obscenity as it applies to digital media and games in particular in part because of the influence their ideology has (or perhaps actual presence) on the ESRB.

The Witcher 2 and the Witcher are examples of how inconsistent this can ultimately be - so were the ratings changes (ultimately to all versions) involving Oblivion. How hard the ESRBs judgment is skewed in favor of the vocal prudes is largely related to things other than the actual content. Consider the cases of GTA San-Andreas being temporarily rated AO because of the hot-coffee mod as comparison. I say that developers erring on the side of caution is simple pragmatism rather than a statement on their part about Americans being able to handle it because you can't always count on your game not becoming the focus du jour of the sanctimonious crusade against smut. They do this, in large part but not uniformly, because they don't want their games pulled from shelves while retailers wait for stickers with new harsher ratings to be sent by the ESRB (as happened with Oblivion.)
 
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Ha. They're pre-emptively complaining and bemoaning the downfall of the modding community. You can never be too early with these things! Get the jump on 2012.

Well that's just silly. It is, however, never the wrong time to pontificate (with sanctimonious zeal) against the evils of regulatory and statutory ambiguity. Nor is it ever the too early to preach of the dangerous power it affords unqualified unaccountable censors and sanctimonious zealots. Its the kind of thing that could let someone like me decide whether or not Obsidian's Southpark game gets to be enjoyed by the wider audiences its unimaginable glory would naturally command.
 
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