Who will win the 2012 US Presidential Election?

[zahratustra]

It's called the law. Give it a try from time to time.

Make a citizen arrest. Don't forget Reagan and Bush while you at it.

 

[Ovenall]

Thousands of people in the upper midwest and other places in the US are still employed thanks to the US auto bailouts. They're getting paychecks, cashing them and spending the money at other US businesses.

So f*ck john boenher and anyone supporting him. A free market is only free when it is protected and regulated by the government -- from the military, to laws protecting consumers. You can holler on about free markets and bang your fists against unions, but these are real people, real americans who need employment. And if it was up to the republicans, the major US auto companies would be bankrupt right now.

 

[Ovenall]

Heh... the response is...

Crickets...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg

 

[dteowner]

A free market is only free when it is protected and regulated by the government

I believe this says everything we need to know about your understanding of basic concepts.

 

[DArtagnan]

There is no free market, as you will never be free from the influence of others.

So, essentially, it's a very bad name for what it actually is.

Then again, so is the title of being a Liberal.

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

I believe this says everything we need to know about your understanding of basic concepts.

Dream on. Free markets just don't exist. Just look att how Microsoft works. Or EA.

The bigger the company is, the less it wants a thing called a "free market".

All they want is monopoly. It's natural. It's greed.
Because only Monopoly provides them with the biggest revenues. It's like pressing out an orange - and the orange is the customer.

Free markets just don't exist. They are a dream.

What exists is either coruption or corporatism.

A Free Markt would consist of tjousands of smaller firms - but this just doesn't exist. They are all bought away by the big ones - and then closed down or incorparated like a parasite feeds on his victim.

Free market just doesn't exist. Business has become a tool for expanding and increasing revenues - and that nly for the heads of the companies. The workers they won't ever get some.

 

[blatantninja]

Why are you crying about the creditors and following bankruptcy laws, when bankruptcy was being purposely avoided?

Because that's the only way that Obama's actions can be portrayed as "blatant violation" of something or other.

Because you can't reassign creditor claims outside of bankruptcy without all parties consent (which they did not have). They did do a bankruptcy, it was just highly irregular.

The issues isn't even GM and Chrysler in particular. Those companies were dead men walking. It was going to end badly one way or another and the govt, right or wrong, did it such as to minimize the pain.

The problem is the precedence it sets. It is going to make it significantly harder to secure financing for troubled companies and keep them out of bankruptcy because there is now precedence that secured creditors are only as secure as the govt decides they are.

I find it rather amusing that the same folks that cry about those bastards on wall street that raped the market and investors to the tune of billions of dollar, even though most did nothing that was technically illegal, then have no problem with the govt effectively doing the same. It wasn't just financial institutions that got hurt by the govt's thievery in GM and Chrysler. Individual, institutional and pension investors held a lot of that supposedly secured debt and took a bath on it.

 

[dteowner]

Whether it exists in pure form or not, defining the free market as something that is chained down is just plain ignorant. Double-speak at its leftie finest.

 

[blatantninja]

Thousands of people in the upper midwest and other places in the US are still employed thanks to the US auto bailouts. They're getting paychecks, cashing them and spending the money at other US businesses.

Which is fine, but they could have accomplished the same thing without illegally handing a large chunk of the company to the unions and screwing the secured debt holders.

So f*ck john boenher and anyone supporting him. A free market is only free when it is protected and regulated by the government — from the military, to laws protecting consumers. You can holler on about free markets and bang your fists against unions, but these are real people, real americans who need employment. And if it was up to the republicans, the major US auto companies would be bankrupt right now.

Bankrupt doesn't mean out of business unless it is chapter 7, which was never contemplated realistically. Understand what you are talking about or STFU.

 

[Ubereil]

DTE, what is a free market?

Übereil

 

[DArtagnan]

Whether it exists in pure form or not, defining the free market as something that is chained down is just plain ignorant. Double-speak at its leftie finest.

Well, it's chained down in the sense that the people with money is in control of it.

So, in never-never land where the government actually tried to curtail the unfathomable exploitation/corruption going on - it would be "more free" for more people.

 

[Ovenall]

You see on the money in your pocket where it says In God We Trust?

That paper means nothing without the backing of the US government with cooperation from other world governments. A free market like ours is based on government protection and control. Without the government it'd be a pure barter system.

Copyright law, consumer protection laws, etc. There is no "free" market… the very idea of a "market" is based on the fact that it's designed and regulated and protected by a government.

 

[Ovenall]

Wait, so the US auto industry is thriving right now, correct? And boehner and mccain wanted to keep it from getting bailed out.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.ph...c4686a34b77c7d4c8.4e1&show_article=1&catnum=0

Pathetic that you guys support these clowns.

 

[Zaleukos]

From where I am Obama is not left. He would probably be right of the centre of the political spectrum.

I think that is a mirage. If Obama raises taxes from 20 to 25% and a Swedish lib-con PM lowers taxes from 55 to 45%, who is the right winger?

Obama is probably a social democrat, but he works from a starting point that is very different from what he would have to deal with in a European country. Looking at positions on individual issues you will find that the democrats match the European center-left fairly well (in their view on anything from unions to government interventionism). Moderate republican governors such as Romney, Huntsman or Schwarzenegger tend to align ok with the European center right.

The loud fringes of the republicans that make a lot of noise in primaries dont match mainstream European politicians. Santorum would only fit in some reactionary party such as the League of Polish families, and he isnt even the most extreme.

Actually, I believe it was over 95%, and yes, most will vote for Obama again no matter what.

The dems usually poll in the 90s in that demographic, regardless of the candidate.

 

[dteowner]

Speaks for itself, me thinks.

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/wa.../09/poll-americans-2-1-fear-obamas-reelection

In our New Year's poll, when asked what news event they fear most about 2012, Americans by a margin of two-to-one said Obama's reelection. Only 16 percent said they fear the Democrat won't win a second term, while 33 percent said they fear four more years.

The actual question asked:

As we enter the presidential election year of 2012, what potential news event do you fear the most?

President Obama wins reelection 33%

Taxes will increase 31%

Iran will get a nuclear weapon 16%

Obama will lose reelection 16%

North Korea will attack South Korea 4%

 

[Myrthos]

So that means 67% does not fear his reelection?

@zeukolos, From my perspective the Democrats used to a party left of the centre and not socialists. They have moved to the right, like the Republicans.
My perspective might be skewed being way, way on the left side

 

[zahratustra]

Must be Myrthos Besides, why would anybody (except dte) want to pay any attention to "Washington Whisper" poll?

 

[Thrasher]

Well that is about the shittiest rigged poll I've ever seen. You should be ashamed of yourself for posting that DTE. To imagine a shameless troll is also the moderator. tsk. tsk. RPGWatch declines...

 

[zahratustra]

He is grasping at straws Thrasher

 

[Myrthos]

…..To imagine a shameless troll is also the moderator. tsk. tsk. RPGWatch declines…

It should be clear that I do not share his political views, but DTE's political views are irrelevant to his tasks as a moderator. He never ever misused his powers as a moderator nor at the infrequent times when we was a super moderator. He takes some hits and deals out some blows as well, but always as a poster and not as a moderator.
DTE is able to separate his moderator tasks from how he acts here. He has never used that here. I want to suggest others not to mix this either.
I couldn't wish for a better person doing what he does for RPGWatch.