Except here in Germany.
Of which I'm very, very glad …
More seriously, shouldn't it be rather, then :
"Are RPGs turning into Adventure games ?"
I always considered RPGs to be Adventure games (with numbers).
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Except here in Germany.
Of which I'm very, very glad …
More seriously, shouldn't it be rather, then :
"Are RPGs turning into Adventure games ?"
I always considered RPGs to be Adventure games (with numbers).
I agree with the idea that RPGs don't *need* numbers. Should many RPGs put their numbers up front for gamers to play with? Yes! I hope we always have RPGs with numbers. I do enjoy that meta game. But why not have something representing the other side? And why does it have to be considered dumbing down if we try? Think about this:
DM: You'd been trudging through the depths of the dungeon for days, but then you breached the grounds of the subterranean temple which was your target. After an epic fight with losses on both sides, you navigated the puzzles and locks leading into the inner sanctum. There, glowing with mysterious light, is a mace. It pulses with energy and you hear voices tickling the edges of your subconscious.
Player: OK, I grab the mace and whip it around a few times.
DM: You feel bolder, and more confident, as you take hold of the ancient weapon. As you swing the mace effortlessly, you marvel at its perfect balance. The +3 mace —
Player: Plus 3?! What? That's (1d8)+3? Nevermind. Put it back.
DM: But wait! It also — uh, it does plus 1d6 versus undead!
Player: My current weapon is 2d6+1, does plus 1d4 vs evil, and has a faster attack speed.
etc.
You might argue and say that the easy solution is to make a mace that's undeniably more powerful than the weapon already in use. But what's wrong with a little mystery? This weapon could be more or less the same as any other weapon in the game, but if it feels special to the player, and occasionally is special (in ways that pure, up front knowledge can't as easily manage), then I call that a win for all.
QUOTE SAGO
Please ban me so we dont windup with two codexes
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Shouldnt you be guarding a bridge or something?
On topic:
The reason for adding numbers i allways thought was fairly obvious: they tell you exactly what is going on.
Sure one can argue just howmuch information one needs wich id say depends on the difficulty of the game. Something like Bg2 would be prettymuch unplayable
without detailed knowledge of saves, damage ranges, defences etc where as your average hack&slash wich seems to be the preferred "rpg" model really does not require any indepth knowledge beyond hp/mana bars.
Apparently the latest generation of gamers have deteriorated to the point where the mere presence of numbers is intimidating so the obvious solution would be to simply make them optional.
I found Da 2 to be incredibly annoying with their vague spell/item descriptions forcing me to choose spells and item sets at random as i had no detailed information telling me what they did. Even tho i had no problems playing trough the game on nightmare a simple item description toggle would have made it much more enjoyable.
the dnd strawman you made up, did not make any sense get out of here newfag
He just doesn't like RPGs, what he is after is adventure games. The idea to hide all the numbers from the players sounds good on paper but is more frustrating than anything else in practice. Combat will be incredibly infuriating when you have no idea what's going on, and players will want to wield the best weapon and armor even if they can't see their stats.Luke Plunkett (the writer) claims that numbers in RPGs are well and good, and those types of RPGs should continue to be made, but it'd be nice if other people made other games that didn't push the numbers so heavily.
The whole premise of the Kotaku article quickly breaks down when you question the assumption "why, uh are we still using numbers now in 2011?" as if somehow, numbers have some kind of use-by date and oh ho ho it's so backwards to be using them in a modern game. This is just ridiculously biased short sightedness. There shouldn't be an either/or dynamic at play here.
The article has essentially gobbled hook line and sinker, the modern BioWare and Bethesda oriented visions of cRPG's as dress-up/social interaction based role-playing, and is erroneously pushing it as the only way forward.
Thankfully the article does accept the reasons for players' finding the joy and transparency in numbers, which is its saving grace.
He just doesn't like RPGs, what he is after is adventure games. The idea to hide all the numbers from the players sounds good on paper but is more frustrating than anything else in practice. Combat will be incredibly infuriating when you have no idea what's going on, and players will want to wield the best weapon and armor even if they can't see their stats.
The whole premise of the Kotaku article quickly breaks down when you question the assumption "why, uh are we still using numbers now in 2011?" as if somehow, numbers have some kind of use-by date and oh ho ho it's so backwards to be using them in a modern game. This is just ridiculously biased short sightedness. There shouldn't be an either/or dynamic at play here.
Hahaha. I realize you're probably trolling, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and "dumb it down" for you.
Luke Plunkett (the writer) claims that numbers in RPGs are well and good, and those types of RPGs should continue to be made, but it'd be nice if other people made other games that didn't push the numbers so heavily.
I agree.
In the Lord of the Rings, Bilbo had his elven sword Sting which he used to fight off spiders. When Frodo had it, the blade glowed blue when orcs were near. No mentions of numbers. Just cool lore and backstory, and neat stuff happening in the adventures.
If we're playing a game like D&D and you give me the numbers, I'll play the meta game and wield the best weapons for my character build to maximize his damage — and that'll be fun. Take the numbers away, and I'll go for the interesting lore and cool in-battle effects. That'll also be fun.
It's easy to differentiate a flint dagger from an atom bomb — and other similar extremes; I'll give you that bit of insight. But take away the numbers and system, and how do you tell if a mace is better than a morning star is better than an axe is better than a halberd, etc.? You go out and use them. And if you don't know all the variables, then performance in the field is going to determine your beliefs.
I know this isn't for everyone. Don't worry, if I decide to start up a numberless RPG campaign, I won't put you in the awkward position of declining my invitation. But there is a market out there for people who would enjoy a true, hard-core (maybe even turn-based) RPG experience without a heavy reliance on numbers meta-gaming.
PS I know you didn't say anything about dumbing down. That was something I was doing for your benefit. Sheesh, I have to explain everything to you. *wink!*
Note that there are pen'n'paper RPGs that don't use numbers.