Witcher 3 - Insider on the Graphics Downgrade

[vurt]

You're not at all into reason or certainty since there's no way you could prove the extent of the downgrade which "it's all about".. you'd have to resort to video footage, which, in your own words, is speculating and doesnt say much etc etc.

In this case there's no publisher to blame. It's also very, very far from being a industry standard. The few times this has happened there's always a shitstorm. This game is different for many reasons though.

This is like pressing repeat over and over. I've said these things 20 times already, you've said your things 20 times already.

Back to discussing the final graphics, if anyone's interested

GPU benchmark:http://www.pcgameshardware.de/The-Witcher-3-PC-237266/Specials/Grafikkarten-Benchmarks-1159196/

Nvidia Gameworks (looks really nice): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Md4Hmgtl8q0

hopefully it will run acceptable with that turned on..

 

[DArtagnan]

You're not at all into reason or certainty since there's no way you could prove the extent of the downgrade which "it's all about".. you'd have to resort to video footage, which, in your own words, is speculating and doesnt say much etc etc.

You're confused. I'm talking about the downgrade from video to game, not game to game. That's because I understand the difference between videos, screenshots and actual games that have been configured properly running on my own hardware.

You're using pre-release videos as certain evidence of how the final game will look when properly configured - and you've been talking about videos and screenshots as if they were from the final game at release, and you've been doing so for days, long before these recent videos and shots were released. You've also been using PR videos as if they ever represented a real game - and you're upset that they never did.

In this case there's no publisher to blame. It's also very, very far from being a industry standard. The few times this has happened there's always a shitstorm. This game is different for many reasons though.

Unfortunately, it's very much the norm to downgrade from PR material to reality. It's just not always that people get so upset about it - or even notice it. Most people still don't.

It's the same way with marketing in general.

It's always been bullshit - but that doesn't mean people react strongly against all ads or marketing campaigns.

It takes a certain level of hype and a certain set of circumstances, like a company that's been beating its own chest about how fair and for-the-gamer they are, to provoke the bigger reactions.

It was bound to happen eventually - and they've been digging their own grave for years. The more you brag, the less it takes to fall on your face.

This is like pressing repeat over and over. I've said these things 20 times already, you've said your things 20 times already.

Yes, you've danced around the same thing 20 times already.

 

[zahratustra]

Here we go again...

 

[vurt]

It was CDPr who used the footage and said it was inferior to how it would look in the end. This is the issue and that is why i started doing comparisons, to prove that they were lying, which they've admitted, though they use other words for it. There for the 21th time.. hopefully we can make it to 100 soon.

No it's not the norm to downgrade, and since you're so much into reasoning and proof, i'm sure you could prove it.. no? I didnt think so Since you're not as into certainty as you may think, with you it's all about being right even if you know you're wrong.

 

[GothicGothicness]

I think such a pointless discussion could be taken in PM's and leave the thread for the real discussions.

 

[DArtagnan]

I didn't use the footage, it was CDPr who used the footage and said it was inferior to how it would look in the end. This is the issue.

Yes, you've been using the footage in your arguments to point out how the game has been downgraded.

No it's not the norm to downgrade, and since you're so much into reasoning and proof, i'm sure you could prove it.. no? I didnt think so Since you're not as into certainty as you may think, with you it's all about being right even if you know you're wrong.

How about you prove that it's not the norm?

 

[DArtagnan]

I think such a pointless discussion could be taken in PM's and leave the thread for the real discussions.

You could always try contributing something yourself?

 

[DArtagnan]

But you're right, this isn't going anywhere.

I apologize for the sidetrack.

Have fun

 

[vurt]

Yes, you've been using the footage in your arguments to point out how the game has been downgraded.



How about you prove that it's not the norm?

Yes i've used the same footage as CDPr, correct.. and i wasnt wrong, there's a downgrade.

I should prove it? Wasn't it you who said you were into certainty and i'm into speculation? Wasn't it you who claimed it's the norm, then it's obviously up to you to prove it.

How strange… If its a "industry standard" that happens with most or even all games, then why is this game singeled out? Why is everyone discussing this? Seems like rather boring topic for something that everyone should expect since it's the norm..

It's discussed everywhere because it's still very rare, hopefully it will stay that way.

 

[JDR13]

It's being singled out because this is one of the most hyped games in a very, very long time.

You simply look foolish if you're going to insist that deceptive marketing isn't used frequently in the gaming industry.

 

[DArtagnan]

Indeed, all you need to know about deceptive marketing is that it's a redundant expression.

 

[vurt]

It's being singled out because this is one of the most hyped games in a very, very long time.

You simply look foolish if you're going to insist that deceptive marketing isn't used frequently in the gaming industry.

If we are a little more specific and talk about huge graphical downgrades, then no, it's not a industry standard. I could give you a list of some 50-100 games i've purcharsed over the last 1-2 years that came out (graphically) just as advertised in the gameplay trailers.. but meh..

I never said "deceptive marketing isn't used", nice try though.

 

[JDR13]

Yeah, the key word there would be "if". Even then, I'm not yet convinced that it's a "huge" graphical downgrade.

 

[Gorath]

Yeah, the key word there would be "if". Even then, I'm not yet convinced that it's a "huge" graphical downgrade.

I tend to agree with the GameStar here, after watching their video with the PC version and reading their editorial on this topic. The graphics downgrade is proven, but in some areas it's more relevant than in others.

 

[Roq]

Seems like a very minor transgression, if it was one at all. Maybe the marketing guy in question was himself mislead at the time, maybe the devs did think they'd be able to add some such bells and whistles, without affecting performance too much, who knows?

All this talk about "lying" is just absurd. When you look at a software project relating to something no one has ever done before, in its early stages, you really can't tell exactly how its going to turn out. It's marketings job to put the best light on everything of course, but quite often they too can be genuinely caught up in over optimistic expectations and hype. Its no different really to any design project. You can do all the planning you want up front, but shit (and sometimes good things too) happen, so you never really know what you'll end up with.

This expectation that companies (and politicians etc.) somehow have crystal balls, whereby they can see the consequences far into the future with perfect clarity and then are accused of deception when they get it wrong is pervasive - but extremely misguided. In the case of CDPR what they have ended up with seems to be rather good, which makes all the whinging from fans just seem like childish pique.

 

[vurt]

I tend to agree with the GameStar here, after watching their video with the PC version and reading their editorial on this topic. The graphics downgrade is proven, but in some areas it's more relevant than in others.

Yes, it's very obvious where it's worse. Lightning is especially bad (well, in comparison to the old footage, not compared to your average PC game).

There are also some comparison screens of geometry downgrades.

The grasses and leaves has also gone from looking highly realistic to something that often looks like paper cut-outs. Seems like the alpha threshold is set to a value that makes them appear very thick, probably to get away with less grass, it could also have to do with aliasing.

Hopefully Boris (of ENB fame) will release ENB for TW3, that can fix some of the lightning issues. Modding tools will provide fixes for geometry, flora and other stuff.. PC has many advantages here.

 

[zahratustra]

9 hours 24 minutes...

 

[Roq]

Yes, it's very obvious where it's worse. Lightning is especially bad (well, in comparison to the old footage, not compared to your average PC game).

There are also some comparison screens of geometry downgrades.

The grasses and leaves has also gone from looking highly realistic to something that often looks like paper cut-outs. Seems like the alpha threshold is set to a value that makes them appear very thick, probably to get away with less grass.

Hopefully Boris (of ENB fame) will release ENB for TW3, that can fix some of the lightning issues. Modding tools will provide fixes for geometry, flora and other stuff.. PC has many advantages here.

Vegetation is very expensive in terms of FPS - adding something like Flora Overhaul & Verdant grass on a Skyrim build can easy cost 20fps or more on ultra settings and Skyrim really restricts draw distance even at max settings. We don't yet know how configurable W3 will be in this respect, haven't seen anyone talking about high res texture options for PC in any detail either.

 

[vurt]

yeah, i get 7 less FPS with SFO compared to vanilla (on an old Titan 6GB). The grass in TW3 also reacts to your movements, i'm sure that is more expensive than the grass in Skyrim.

 

[kobold]

Vegetation is very expensive in terms of FPS - adding something like Flora Overhaul & Verdant grass on a Skyrim build can easy cost 20fps or more on ultra settings and Skyrim really restricts draw distance even at max settings. We don't yet know how configurable W3 will be in this respect, haven't seen anyone talking about high res texture options for PC in any detail either.

Yes, Vurt's Flora Overhaul!

I don't think its really fair to call it chilidish hand wringing. I agree with you about general errors of conspiracy thinking. But some of us us just graphics enthusiasts, and were looking forward to something that could stretch the hardware. My speculation is only about why they are giving mealy mouthed explanations that don't fit what we see in front of us. If they'd been able to say that they had to scale some elements back because of performance problems, that would be fine. I don't see the whole project as some terrible dishonest scheme.