Thrasher
Wheeee!
Disappointment because of opposition by Republicans in Congress. Remember that when you vote for you congressmen.
Herman Cain
- Thread starter BillSeurer
- Start date
zahratustra
SasqWatch
- Joined
- January 10, 2008
- Messages
- 4,721
Maybe. But I think that, with Republican siding so squarely with Wall Street and corporations, more and more people realize that voting for them might not be good for their wallet (unless you have a very thick wallet).
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2008
- Messages
- 4,721
dteowner
Shoegazer
Who do you think supplies all those paychecks that people put in their wallets? Obama? No, in spite of his best efforts to increase the number of people on the dole, business still fills wallets across the nation. Y'all are in such hurry to shoot yourselves in the foot and screw us all in the process. I always get a laugh when you lefties forget that inconvenient truth.
BillSeurer
Eternal Supreme Dictator
Business executives dump their current domestic workforces and go chase after fleeting "savings" overseas in order to pump up short term profits so they can earn ever higher bonuses while destroying their companies. Some are learning the folly of this (For example, http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/2010-08-06-manufacturing04_CV_N.htm) but others still have hard lessons to learn. Hopefully they won't be learned too late.
dteowner
Shoegazer
And yet you still don't get past the fact that those evil corporations that you want to destroy are still the primary source of wages for everyone— rich, middle class, and poor. You're screwing the people you're claiming to defend in the name of blind ideology.
BillSeurer
Eternal Supreme Dictator
Who said I want to destroy them? I want them to stop rewarding their executives for short term gains that hurt in the long term.
zahratustra
SasqWatch
- Joined
- January 10, 2008
- Messages
- 4,721
Yeah and they do it out of the goodness of their heart. If it was down to corporations and their Republican friends you wouldn't have minimum wages or labor protection laws.
dte is building another straw man. I doesn't matter what you have said.
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2008
- Messages
- 4,721
dteowner
Shoegazer
I really don't think you folks understand the concept of straw man. It's not a strawman if there's stacks of evidence that it's true. Y'all throw that nonsense around like some sort of trump card any time you're faced with something you can't handle. In this case, you've got OWS all over the world wanting to destroy corporations. I can understand your desire to seperate yourselves from those clowns, but unfortunately you can't.
dteowner
Shoegazer
Not all the OWS clowns are "merely asking for a touch of regulation", Thrasher. Some are, and a portion of those might actually have a valid point or two, but it's tremendously unfair for you to ignore the extremists clowning around in those groups just to create an opportunity to insult me.
As for your intended insult, you're putting words in my mouth and they're not even accurate, which I believe is a textbook strawman. Fortunately for you, I don't generally feel the need to be a pompous, self-aggrandizing ass with the whole logical fallacy shtick, so we'll just say that you're correct about the general philosophy but incorrect about a blanket application of said philosophy.
As for your intended insult, you're putting words in my mouth and they're not even accurate, which I believe is a textbook strawman. Fortunately for you, I don't generally feel the need to be a pompous, self-aggrandizing ass with the whole logical fallacy shtick, so we'll just say that you're correct about the general philosophy but incorrect about a blanket application of said philosophy.
Thrasher
Wheeee!
Your generalizing a VERY diverse group saying that OWS wants to destroy corporations. That's bullshit and you know it. There are some extremists in every group.
Just like you deny that the Tea Baggers are a bunch of racist bigots, even though there's proof of idiots in the group that carried racist signs. There are extremists there too.
Where are the OWS signs that say corporations should be destroyed, BTW? I have seen no evidence of this. Although, I'm sure a few odd cases are plastered over all the rightwing websites you visit as being representative of the whole group
We've already caught the righties false claims that the OWS demonstrators are all criminals, thieves, and communist panhandlers.
Just like you deny that the Tea Baggers are a bunch of racist bigots, even though there's proof of idiots in the group that carried racist signs. There are extremists there too.
Where are the OWS signs that say corporations should be destroyed, BTW? I have seen no evidence of this. Although, I'm sure a few odd cases are plastered over all the rightwing websites you visit as being representative of the whole group
We've already caught the righties false claims that the OWS demonstrators are all criminals, thieves, and communist panhandlers. zahratustra
SasqWatch
- Joined
- January 10, 2008
- Messages
- 4,721
Ok dte, here is your statement: "And yet you still don't get past the fact that those evil corporations that you want to destroy are still the primary source of wages for everyone— rich, middle class, and poor."
1- who is "you"? Me? Thrasher? BillSeurer? OWS? Unions? Democrats? Liberals?
2- provide evidence (no need for "stacks") that those "you" have a unified policy of wanting to destroy corporations.
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2008
- Messages
- 4,721
I think what Dte is trying to point out is that these groups are still biting the hands that feed them!! That is not a good idea in the long term!!
zahratustra
SasqWatch
- Joined
- January 10, 2008
- Messages
- 4,721
For whom? The biters or the bitten? Righteous hand biting have an honored place in history.
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2008
- Messages
- 4,721
Thrasher
Wheeee!
There is a false idea that large corporations provide most of the jobs here in the US. They do not. Most come from small businesses, who aren't interested in raping the country and destroying long term prospects to get big CEO bonuses and stock options.
Well, there is plenty of that on both sides of the issue.
Consider, however, that the combination of neo-liberal economics and the shareholder value management paradigm has combined to create an environment that has provided the greatest redistribution of wealth (from bottom to top) and the greatest disparity between rich and poor this country has ever experienced, and in the process has destabilized the economy, stagnated wages, created significant job losses, and has provide GDP growth LOWER than that of most of the big-government Euro economies.
In addition, average American CEO compensation is 2x that of average Euro CEO compensations, and 4x that of average Japanese CEO compensation.
Even Jack Welch, the guru of shareholder value, has called it "The worst idea ever".
- Joined
- May 28, 2011
- Messages
- 194
dteowner
Shoegazer
I think you're missing the proper assignments of blame for most of your post, but on this part at least we can agree. The over-emphasis on "paper value" versus growth is causing tremendous damage to the economy.
We are all to blame for it, and many of us, including me, have benefited greatly from the concepts of trickle down economics and share holder value management. However, neo-liberal economics has failed to deliver, and shareholder value is unsustainable.
- Joined
- May 28, 2011
- Messages
- 194
zahratustra
SasqWatch
- Joined
- January 10, 2008
- Messages
- 4,721
errrr Jhari, the only way one can have "benefited greatly from concepts of trickle down economics" that I can think of is a rich guy benefiting from having his taxes cut. So I am curious... Can you name some other benefits?
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2008
- Messages
- 4,721