Dead State - Why isn’t Dead State Done Yet

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Brian Mitsoda has posted two interesting updates on the forum for Dead State where he talks about why the game isn't released yet. So here is the first post.
Why isn’t Dead State Done Yet?! Pt.1

Without a doubt, some of the most frequent comments we get at DoubleBear are about how we have been “Making this game forever” and “What’s taking so long?” and I’d like to take the time in this Design Update to talk a little about the business of game development and set the record straight about how this game in “5 years of development” could possibly not be done yet. If you’re one of the people who are frequently upset about the time it has taken for the game to be completed, please take the time to read this update.
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And his second post on the topic with more infomation.
Why isn't Dead State Done Yet?! Pt.2

So, you might be wondering: “It’s 2014, and if the game was Kickstarted and put into full-swing production in 2012, why isn’t it done?” Software development imprecision aside, as I said before, the skeleton crew needed for swift(er) RPG development is about 30-ish people. After the Kickstarter, we were at about 8 full-time people, 1 part-time team member, and 2 amazing professionals who were contributing sound and music support on the side for us. Most of the staff was inexperienced and was still getting used to working on a schedule and working together remotely (inexperienced does not mean bad at their job, it means not as fast as senior staff that have worked together before.) Our first shot at a production pipeline was enough to get the ball rolling, albeit very slowly. Usually an RPG has several people just on the design side (writing, systems/combat, level leads), but we didn’t have the budget for additional seniors or the time to train up anyone on the design side, so most of that fell to me. By late 2012, we were starting to get the game in shape, but it was obvious that we needed a few more people and a more efficient system to coordinate departments and keep track of finished assets.

So, you might wonder why I’m telling you this, and the truth is: it flat-out sucks to hear that our game is “taking too long” or starting an interview off with questions like “So your game has been in the works for a while now…” I know I’ve said it before, but I promise you, no one wants Dead State out more than us. The truth is, games don’t manifest out of thin air the moment they’re announced. Concept art, ideas, and mockups are not a game. If you’re hearing about an original game for the first time at E3 or PAX, chances are it was being developed 2-3 years before it was ever mentioned to the public (remember, we announced DoubleBear the week we formed a company with no budget and with a handful of people.)
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Well, its not the only game that's been in development so long. Look at
Grim Dawn, Age of Decadence, Kenji, or Underrail. What counts for me is the
end product, but hey I've lived 41 years so 1 or 2 don't mean that much to me. I
feel sometimes though that game developers are like people working in the building buisness, they always put in bids for best case scenarios, and things don't usually
work out as a best case scenario, meaning that their products are almost
inevitably delayed. I'd personally prefer more realistic projections, though they
must feel that they'd lose customers or backers by doing this.
 
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You want some cheese with your whine? Get over it, you took money and made promises. Next time, write this 'touching' editorial during the Kickstarter campaign, and mention your ETA as "no before than 2015".
 
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mbpopolano24 said:
You want some cheese with your whine? Get over it, you took money and made promises. Next time, write this 'touching' editorial during the Kickstarter campaign, and mention your ETA as "no before than 2015".
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Nah, next time people need to grow a brain before supporting game development, expecting everything to go perfectly in an industry where almost no games ever come out on time.

Just because you give money to a project, doesn't mean reality won't set in.

My advice is that if you don't understand the nature of the creative process, don't support crowd-funded development.
 
forgottenlor said:
What counts for me is the
end product, but hey I've lived 41 years so 1 or 2 don't mean that much to me.
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Don't count the years you've lived, but the years you have yet to live. That's what counts in this context. ;)
And it's said that people get the more imaptient the older they get...
 
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While I wish them luck, but they really should be posting this stuff to their kickstarter. Anyone who runs a kickstarter, please don't post major updates exclusively to your forums. Not everyone checks the forums.
 
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Morrandir said:
Don't count the years you've lived, but the years you have yet to live. That's what counts in this context. ;)
And it's said that people get the more imaptient the older they get…
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Perhaps in the short term. In the long term, time feels like it passes by more quickly.
Don't forget when one is 40, 2years makes up 5% of one's life. When one is 10 its 20%. That's the way it feels to me too. Also one never knows how may years one has left.
 
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Morrandir said:
And it's said that people get the more imaptient the older they get…
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If that is said I've never heard it, and it's not true from my (also middle-aged) perspective either.
And Underrail and AoD weren't Kickstarter projects.
 
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forgottenlor said:
Well, its not the only game that's been in development so long. Look at
Grim Dawn, Age of Decadence, Kenji, or Underrail. What counts for me is the
end product, but hey I've lived 41 years so 1 or 2 don't mean that much to me. I
feel sometimes though that game developers are like people working in the building buisness, they always put in bids for best case scenarios, and things don't usually
work out as a best case scenario, meaning that their products are almost
inevitably delayed. I'd personally prefer more realistic projections, though they
must feel that they'd lose customers or backers by doing this.
Click to expand...

Or look at Starfarer / Starsector:
http://fractalsoftworks.com/
Alex is hammering away on this atmospheric & fun game since about 2009 with help of the game's modders - lots of mods even while in alpha state and its still in version 0.65a as of today.
In 2011 Starfarer 0.34a was released so Alex must have been hammering away from around 2009 on this thing.


Why isn’t Dead State Done Yet?!
Not really a relevant question, since the game isn't so good, it would warrant nail-biting waiting fever…
 
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Whole thing is just a disgrace. I don't think the original idea is all that strong anyway, it's going to be hard to execute and people who are not hardcore zombie fans wouldn't like it much even if it were done very well let alone semi-abortively as will end up being the case.

DArtagnan said:
My advice is that if you don't understand the nature of the creative process, don't support crowd-funded development.
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Just don't support the ones that lie to you about their status for years on end, like with Dead State. Even in 2008 they were talking about a release date in just two years or so. Now they guy says basically that the real work only started once they made the kicktarter. Until then they had literally nothing but mockups, which is not anything like nearly done, halfway done, or even quarter done.

I've been working longer than them. My combat was working perfectly 5+ years ago and it's more complex than in dead state, and I am the only one working on the project. Yet I would not come out and say "it will be done in two years" because my pants are not constantly on fire and I am not going to beg from strangers.
 
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The irony here is IMMENSE. You see, the very same people that rag on "those damnedable, accursed publishers releasing games before they're done!!!!" are the same going "No, we want it out NAO!!! There are no games to play, it's not like there are constant crazy sales on Steam and GOG!!!"

The very publisher-haters become publisher-lites!
 
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Personally, I have hundreds of unplayed games because I see games going for a dollar or two constantly! I WANT games to take time! I have yet to finish any of the Kickstarter games that have come out already (apart from Shadowrun Returns).
 
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I backed this.. and am not concerned. It'll come out. Hopefully, it'll be good. If not, it was 15 bucks. I've spent more on lunches before. I will survive.
 
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I doubt any Kickstarter promo anyway is going to advertise they are going to hire inexperienced staff to work remotely on the project. That might damper the enthusiasm for the product.
 
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PegasusOrgans said:
The irony here is IMMENSE. You see, the very same people that rag on "those damnedable, accursed publishers releasing games before they're done!!!!" are the same going "No, we want it out NAO!!! There are no games to play, it's not like there are constant crazy sales on Steam and GOG!!!"

The very publisher-haters become publisher-lites!
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Dead State is released. They have released it in a much earlier state than the usual by publishers.
 
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ManWhoJaped said:
Just don't support the ones that lie to you about their status for years on end, like with Dead State. Even in 2008 they were talking about a release date in just two years or so. Now they guy says basically that the real work only started once they made the kicktarter. Until then they had literally nothing but mockups, which is not anything like nearly done, halfway done, or even quarter done.
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It was announced in 2009 so...
 
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The delay and eternal development doesn't bother me much other than it DOES seem like their pace is amazingly slow. I've paid for 1-man projects that move way faster.

I also thought the posts were a bit silly because one might hope that when one is planning for and kickstarting a game that they have SOME plan and SOME idea of what's going to be involved. The way he writes it makes it seems like all of this became known after they got started. We decided to make a game. Then we discovered we'd actually need somebody to MAKE the game. Shocking as it was.

I dunno man, I have a lot of early access/apha games and read a lot of stuff like this about progress and some teams do better than others at actually getting stuff done. No big - it's not like we're all clones - but just own it and say, yes, we spend most of our time playing games or writing out thesis length excuses and not working but some day we'll get this done. It's ok.
 
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Lemonhead said:
It was announced in 2009 so…
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You're right, it's been 5 years not 6.

Voqar said:
The delay and eternal development doesn't bother me much other than it DOES seem like their pace is amazingly slow. I've paid for 1-man projects that move way faster.

I also thought the posts were a bit silly because one might hope that when one is planning for and kickstarting a game that they have SOME plan and SOME idea of what's going to be involved. The way he writes it makes it seems like all of this became known after they got started. We decided to make a game. Then we discovered we'd actually need somebody to MAKE the game. Shocking as it was.

I dunno man, I have a lot of early access/apha games and read a lot of stuff like this about progress and some teams do better than others at actually getting stuff done. No big - it's not like we're all clones - but just own it and say, yes, we spend most of our time playing games or writing out thesis length excuses and not working but some day we'll get this done. It's ok.
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Pretty much this. I don't think the game is going to be done any time soon, and probably won't ever be fully realized. It's just too ambitious and vague, and a little scripting experience is not enough to qualify someone to have any idea how to make serious software.
 
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Nice to hear some news about the game since the kickstarter page is never updated. I really appreciate how they created a paywall for updates halfway through the fundraising campaign. Must have been convenient for them to try to squeeze more money so they could not inform anyone of progress. Sick of the victim mentality and poor communication.
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Wow, this is messed up. I find it hard to believe this is true even though I always disliked how they handled the project.

You can have backer updates that are not public to everyone, anyway. Some projects seem like they must be talking about making games and apologizing more than they actually make them.
 
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