Dragon Age 2 - The decline of the Classic RPG at Hooked Gamers

Some people actually timed it and they are very similar across the board. I didn't so it myself though, and have no link handy, so I can only say what I was told. Still, I believe it and I think it's part of the way the fast animations and movement have gotten people to view the game differently.
 
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
1,830
Article said:
Everyone can sympathise with their decision to add real-time combat to the game and make it easier for new players to get into the game, in fact we support it.

I really can't sympathize, or support it. I'm sick and tired of everything being pandered to the lowest common denominator. If people can't stick with a game long enough to learn how to play it, they can go back to reading the airbag warning labels plastered all over their cars.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
18
The problem lies with publishers and developers. If anyone here remembers a man named Brent Knowles. He was a level and lead designer for a couple of bioware games. He left bioware because he refused to make DA2 and bioiware wasn't the same company anymore. Here a little info on how he felt.
Changes
We were nearing the end of active work on design content for Dragon Age… there was still a lot more bug fixing/polishing/ and fill-content generation ahead but the core plot/writing and level design was finished. My work was rapidly shifting into that of reviewing what the team had put together.

Discussion on Dragon Age 2 began around this time and looking ahead I knew that I wasn’t going to be satisfied with what Dragon Age 2 would be. Party control/tactical combat are huge factors in my enjoyment of a role-playing game as is adopting the role of the hero (i.e., customizing my character). I was fairly certain Dragon Age would transition towards more of a Mass Effect experience, which while enjoyable is not the type of role-playing game I play. Could I be the lead designer on such a title? Certainly… though if I were going to work on a game adopting a set-in-stone protagonist I’d rather work on something lighter, like a shooter.

Through a series of circumstances it was decided that with my not wanting to participate on Dragon Age 2 it was time to transition in a new lead to finish the Dragon Age console versions and ramp up for Dragon Age 2. I moved out of an active lead role though I stayed on for several months performing quality assurance and helping with the transition. I completed the game several times during this period and racked up the second or third highest bug totals… so, still busy but doing something quite different.

After this was over and the content locked down I took a sabbatical.

Sabbatical
I wrote a lot during my several weeks of sabbatical time. One of the stories I wrote — “Digital Rights” — went on to win the Writers of the Future contest (though I wouldn’t learn that until late in 2009). While I enjoyed devoting my time to writing and spending more time with my kids I still had the ‘game design’ itch. When I returned to work I was hoping that there would be a new project lined up for me.

There wasn’t, not really. I did some high level design for a potential new project but a few months later I realized that, given cutbacks and other things that it really seemed unlikely that the project I had been ‘assigned’ to was ever going to materialize. I can’t/won’t go into any other details other than to point to an old entry I made about this and reiterate: “I’m not the same person I was when I started, and BioWare isn’t the same company. ”

The End

So I quit, giving a couple months notice to finish up my obligations on the new/hypothetical project and then in early September 2009 I left BioWare. I had a great last lunch with many of the designers I had helped train over the years. I definitely miss all the interaction at the office; there’s nothing like a couple hundred uber creative folk running around to stir the imagination but I am very much enjoying my stress reduced life.
 
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
36,554
Location
Spudlandia
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
6,027
Some people actually timed it and they are very similar across the board. I didn't so it myself though, and have no link handy, so I can only say what I was told. Still, I believe it and I think it's part of the way the fast animations and movement have gotten people to view the game differently.

They're not though. All you have to do is boot up DA:O and play for awhile to see that. The spells are similar, but the Warrior and Rogue talents definitely have shorter cooldowns in general. It felt like I was practically spamming talents with those classes in the demo.

I could use a certain talent, and then by the time I used 2 or 3 other talents immediately after, I could use the first talent again. I also seemed to have a lot more stamina compared to DA:O.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just different. It's not for me, but others will enjoy it.

@JemyM - I laughed out loud at that vid.. button=awesome!
 
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
39,536
Location
Florida, US
rune_74 said:
You played the witcher by any chance?
Yup. Didn't finish it.
Then you do realize that it is based off of twitch reflex for their combat, even more so then dragon age 2. But it is held as great around here. I like the game a lot myself.

It's generally lauded by people on this site because of its morally grey plot. The combat is hit or miss - some people like it, some do not. But everyone who enjoys RPG's loves how the game's plot branches out and is never cut and dry when it comes to choices.

Bioware is a cliche' joke these days when it comes to storytelling. A typical Bioware writer will have the player choose between skinning a guy alive for his safety deposit box key or saving his firstborn from some burning wreckage. There's rarely anything in between... and once you've played, or tried to play Bioware titles for over a decade, you tend to get tired of that trite mechanism.

So, what have we? A predictably black/white plot with (this time around) even fewer villain/do-gooder choices in favor of cinematics PLUS less customization options.

Sign me up for Witcher 2 instead of this borefest.
 
Joined
Nov 10, 2008
Messages
5,982
Location
Florida, USA
I could use a certain talent, and then by the time I used 2 or 3 other talents immediately after, I could use the first talent again. I also seemed to have a lot more stamina compared to DA:O.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just different. It's not for me, but others will enjoy it.

@JemyM - I laughed out loud at that vid.. button=awesome!

I felt the same way about stamina/mana. I could use abilities quite liberally and never run out of stamina. I wonder if that was done just for the demo.

And yes, that video was "awesome" :lol:
 
Joined
Nov 18, 2010
Messages
1,022
They're not though. All you have to do is boot up DA:O and play for awhile to see that. The spells are similar, but the Warrior and Rogue talents definitely have shorter cooldowns in general. It felt like I was practically spamming talents with those classes in the demo.

I could use a certain talent, and then by the time I used 2 or 3 other talents immediately after, I could use the first talent again. I also seemed to have a lot more stamina compared to DA:O.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing, just different. It's not for me, but others will enjoy it.

Well I don't agree. After I got quite a few talents in DA:O the first one I used was ready to go again by the time I used a few more... that's nothing new at all. Like I said, some people timed it... if I had a link I would post it, but I don't.

In any event, my opinion that the fast-looking combat is altering people's perceptions of how tactical it is has not changed. That's my personal belief, you can obviously feel otherwise.
 
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
1,830
The problem lies with publishers and developers. If anyone here remembers a man named Brent Knowles. He was a level and lead designer for a couple of bioware games. He left bioware because he refused to make DA2 and bioiware wasn't the same company anymore. Here a little info on how he felt.

Most of that he seems to be lamenting the switch to a defined character, which is fine and all but did he like Deus Ex? The Witcher? KOTOR? I take it as silly when people complain about RPGs with defined characters not being "RPG enough"... Deus Ex is one of my two favorite RPGs ever.

As for switching away from tactical combat... well, they didn't. I mean I don't know how else to say it, complain about some streamlining or simplifying all you want but it is still a tactical party-based RPG. It is not a real-time action game with RPG elements like Mass Effect is, and frankly I tire of the comparison. "Dragon Effect" is a cute little dig at the game people like to use but it's in no way accurate from a gameplay perspective, they could not be further apart. The Witcher is ten times closer to being Mass Effect in a fantasy setting than Dragon Age 2 is.
 
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
1,830
Well I don't agree. After I got quite a few talents in DA:O the first one I used was ready to go again by the time I used a few more… that's nothing new at all. Like I said, some people timed it… if I had a link I would post it, but I don't.

In any event, my opinion that the fast-looking combat is altering people's perceptions of how tactical it is has not changed. That's my personal belief, you can obviously feel otherwise.

What exactly did people "time"? Most of the talents in DA2 are new talents that weren't even in DA:O to begin with, so I'd be very curious as to how people are claiming to have compared them. I'm not claiming they sped up all the existing talents, just that the cooldowns in general seem faster.

Somehow I doubt that the faster combat is altering that many people's perception of the cooldown times.
 
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
39,536
Location
Florida, US
The cooldowns aren't shorter, you simply have more stamina/mana before running out. No idea if that is the case in the full game.

You can pretty much spam abilities like a mad man in Origins as well, provided you have enough stamina/mana. Which you don't. It's only possible by using specific gear with massive regeneration (Cailan's stuff, for example) or by chain-chugging potions.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
7,586
Location
Bergen
The problem lies with publishers and developers. If anyone here remembers a man named Brent Knowles. He was a level and lead designer for a couple of bioware games. He left bioware because he refused to make DA2 and bioiware wasn't the same company anymore. Here a little info on how he felt.

Yeah...um...interesting about that, where have I heard it before? Oh that's right!
I posted on him back on page 2! /facepalm.

And kudos to Booboo's post about the erroneous comparisons between DA2 and the Witcher. Hit the nail on the head.
 
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
1,975
Location
Australia
You can pretty much spam abilities like a mad man in Origins as well, provided you have enough stamina/mana. Which you don't. It's only possible by using specific gear with massive regeneration (Cailan's stuff, for example) or by chain-chugging potions.

I agree, it was very hard to to spam talents in DA:O. Like you say, it could done, but it used up a lot of resources. By contrast, I never used a single stamina drought in the DA2 demo.
 
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
39,536
Location
Florida, US
Yeah…um…interesting about that, where have I heard it before? Oh that's right!
I posted on him back on page 2! /facepalm.

And kudos to Booboo's post about the erroneous comparisons between DA2 and the Witcher. Hit the nail on the head.


T wasn't going to read three pages of comments sorry if you mentioned him. As for people who say its his fault I can name five people that left bioware for the same reasons if you want. Some people just dont like the truth when its given to them.They left because they hated the direction bioware was taking. But hey what do they know they worked inside company and we dont right?
 
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
36,554
Location
Spudlandia
So I found a pretty funny video that sums up some of the feelings we tend to have about some of the newer RPGs, particularly the streamlining and "dumbing down" of RPG elements. I laughed pretty hard the first time I watched it, and I think it's a good parody. Enjoy :lol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ep_OTLZOQsU&feature=related
 
Joined
Nov 18, 2010
Messages
1,022
I wasn't keen on the demo myself, but hopefully will find the full game rather more appealing.
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Messages
2,351
Location
London
bros. i have a genius plan to share with you.

instead claiming to boycott biowears shitty games, why don't you actually stop buying them?

also, blame shareholders
 
Joined
Feb 22, 2011
Messages
315
Location
Virgin Islands
Remember that time when Bioware was pitching that new cool real time strategy game to Interplay, and then some guy named Feargus Urquhart came running into the office and told them they should stick the d&d-licence to it 'cus that would make it sell more…?
 
Really? I had no idea Feargus was involved in Baldur's Gate at all.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
7,586
Location
Bergen
Back
Top Bottom