Kingdom Come - GamerGate & Adam Baldwin

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Couchpotato

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DSO Gaming has news that Warhorse Studios supports GamerGate, and has asked Adam Baldwin the creator to voice an NPC in Kingdom Come: Deliverance.

Some developers are afraid to speak up, some developers are afraid of being blacklisted and some developers are Honey Badgers and they just don’t give a crap. Daniel Vavra is one of those Honey Badgers, he’s the creative director for the Kickstarted game, Kingdom Come: Deliverance – a game, I might add, that has garnered more than $1.9 million in crowd-sourced funding.

Note: If you don't know what #GamerGate is find out about it right here

Vavra is one of those badass mofos who just doesn’t care, and I respect him for baring his stance like a man with chrome-dipped titanium balls. He posted the following messages on Twitter, denouncing the radical “Social Justice Warriors” and their movement to kill the gamer culture.
More information.

Update: News-bit taken off front page, and thread is now locked.:cool:
 
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Well, their games are officially off my radar. Good job backing morons guys!
 
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As a side note, how does this even qualify as news here? Couch potato, don't get this website involved in this stupid mess. Heck, this "summary" is not even correct. It still pushes the whole "Grayson wrote about a game after banging a developer" line that is unambiguously wrong.
 
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Is there somewhere a short summary about this GamerGate thing?
Somehow I've missed it.
 
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"Is there somewhere a short summary about this GamerGate thing?"

I'll give you one right now:
1. Zoe Quinn, a female feminist indie games developers, makes a free game called Depression Quest.
2. Zoe Quinn has relations with some guys. One guy in particular, Nathan Grayson, works at Kotaku and worked, until recently, at Rock Paper Shotgun.
3. Zoe's ex-boyfriend leaks the story, but others tack on an argument that Grayson supposedly reviewed her game for RPS and/or Kotaku after relations occurred. This leads to a gigantic engine of anger about supposed "corruption" in gaming, even though this.. never happened. All over a free indie game about Depression that none of these people cared about to begin with.
4. Lots of drama occurred. Lots and lots of horrible things tossed at Zoe, Nathan, Kotaku, RPS, etc. etc. It's abundantly clear through all of this that it's really about anger directed at feminist critiques of gaming. Corruption is basically a red-herring. Slut-shaming is abundant through all of this (a common joke was to reference the "five guys" Zoe Quinn had sex with, and her ex-boyfriend was a central character to pushing this so-called controversy).
5. The controversy is dubbed GamerGate. Its proponents become a little bit better about hiding the anti-feminist roots here and try to make it actually about corruption. The problem is that the real corruption in gaming, AAA developers buying coverage, is basically the opposite of what these people are angry about. For them, corruption in gaming is really about attacking feminism. Anita Sarkeesian releases a new video. This whole thing ends up becoming about her, even though she had no part in even the non-corruption referenced above. Again, the campaign against "corruption" reveals itself.
6. Most people move on. Only a few rabble-rousers are out and about trying to whip things up. For the most part, this is a dead movement already, as they have no real goals or even real things to complain about. At the end of the day, their main objective is to get feminists to stop having opinions. Good luck with that!

There are other things people would bring up too: such and so Kotaku editor lived with a person whose indie games she covered. A bunch of websites wrote about the word "gamer" and what it means. Lots of GamerGaters took this as a war of identity, even though RPS has basically embraced the word gamer. There's also been a lot of doxxing and counter-doxxing, supposed fake-doxxing (though with no real evidence, lots of people claim that Zoe, Phil Fish, and others are leaking incredibly private details and photos to gain sympathy or something?), etc. etc. And I haven't touched upon all the controversy and mud-slinging over the Fine Young Capitalists gamejam.

A few interesting discussions have come out of all of this: about transparency, the ties between developers and so-called games journalists, etc. But most of this has been lost in a sea of anger and stupidity. I think games websites could be slightly more up-front about connections between staff and developers, but I don't think that's really what this is about for most of the people involved.
 
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Thanks.
 
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I have to totally disagree with killias2's assessment here and to me it is really obvious that this saga exposed some shady things going on concerning the popular gaming blogs and indie game developers. It's worth pointing out that Zoe and Anita have stopped being the focus for a relatively long while now, and it's all actually interesting to follow, the latest developments of which suggesting that a popular indie gaming award is a financial fraud.

I also don't think it's about intimidating someone with a pro-feminist slant to deprive them of a voice, other than maybe for a select few disturbed malcontents, but rather it's about the very haughty tone that many of these "social justice warriors" have toward their target audience, combined with the ubiquity of such politicized content on sites catering to gaming. That's what's being called out as a tangential point.
 
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I have to totally disagree with killias2's assessment here and to me it is really obvious that this saga exposed some shady things going on concerning the popular gaming blogs and indie game developers. It's worth pointing out that Zoe and Anita have stopped being the focus for a relatively long while now, and it's all actually interesting to follow, the latest developments of which suggesting that a popular indie gaming award is a financial fraud.

I also don't think it's about intimidating someone with a pro-feminist slant to deprive them of a voice, other than maybe for a select few disturbed malcontents, but rather it's about the very haughty tone that many of these "social justice warriors" have toward their target audience, combined with the ubiquity of such politicized content on sites catering to gaming. That's what's being called out as a tangential point.

This is the thing about GamerGate: it keeps changing. It started as #fiveguys and was all about Zoe and Kotaku and RPS and corruption and so-called SJWs. Then Anita's video came out, so it was all about that. Then they find something from three years ago with Phil Fish possibly involved in some shady doings, and they act like that it somehow part of the same discussion or justifies their views on SJWs and Anita Sarkeesian..?

Seriously, there are two different strands here:
1. Zoe Quinn, Anita Sarkeesian, Anti-SJWs
2. Corruption. Started with Zoe Quinn nonsense, but occasionally finds something actually worthy of discussion, such as Patricia Hernandez covering her roommates games. This Phil Fish stuff might fit in here too. But even this corruption seems less salient than, say, the revelations this summer that YouTubers make huge bucks by covering games: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-07-16-blurred-lines-are-youtubers-breaking-the-law, or last year's Doritogate stuff: http://www.vg247.com/2012/10/31/doritosgate-after-the-storm-lets-clean-ourselves-up/.

The problem is that this faux-movement keeps mixing the two to make it seem like there is a connection. There isn't. Attacking feminist discourse is not attacking corruption. Attacking corruption is not attacking feminist discourse. If you're not happy with feminist discourse in games, feel free to respond, ignore, or get your news from sites that don't engage on that topic. Don't act like you're on a holy crusade. The fact is that some of the main people who talk about feminism (like Rab Florence) have also been huge critics of corruption in games (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-10-24-lost-humanity-18-a-table-of-doritos)!
 
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I also have to disagree that the two points in question have no link between one another. It is what Daniel Vavra and Adam Baldwin here are pointing out. Daniel says he is afraid to speak out his mind on this matter that he perceives as tainted by radical activism because of possible repercussions on media coverage for this studio, and that he knows many other developers who stay mum and feel very intimidated.

He describes a system where indie developers, and writers of sites such as Destructoid, Kotaku, Polygon, etc., are in cahoots with one another to promote their political agenda, and blackmailing/firing/giving media blackout to developers and writers who simply disagree with them, or with their hijacking of the platform that is gaming journalism. One where the "SJW" movement is the very raison d'être of these cliques.

If people control the platform where you can be given publicity and aggressively push for a political agenda, the question becomes whether or not it is possible for an indie developer to have a career without actively embracing their cause.
 
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I also have to disagree that the two points in question have no link between one another. It is what Daniel Vavra and Adam Baldwin here are pointing out. Daniel says he is afraid to speak out his mind on this matter that he perceives as tainted by radical activism because of possible repercussions on media coverage for this studio, and that he knows many other developers who stay mum and feel very intimidated.

He describes a system where indie developers, and writers of sites such as Destructoid, Kotaku, Polygon, etc., are in cahoots with one another to promote their political agenda, and blackmailing/firing/giving media blackout to developers and writers who simply disagree with them. Where the "SJW" movement is the very raison d'être of these cliques.

Here we go with another mutation. Seriously, there isn't a movement here because there's nothing consistent except anti-feminism, unless you all just blatantly take on the anti-feminist label and run with it. How can I even respond to this thing when it changes every time I respond?

"ZOE QUINN IS A SLUT AND SHE GOT GOOD REVIEWS BECAUSE OF IT, FEMINISM, AND CORRUPTION!"
Actually that's wrong because there was never actually a rev—
"Whoa whoa, who is even talking about her anymore? It's just about corruption."
Well, there are all of these examples of corruption in gaming, and we should be vigilant against it. I just don't see how that relates to feminis—-
"Whoa whoa, it's not about corruption in gaming! It's about the secret feminist conspiracy! Everybody knows that low paid gaming enthusiast bloggers are all part of a secret pact to destroy gaming in the name of social justice!"

Seriously though. You've gone from partially having an argument (corruption in games!) to full on stupid (gigantic gaming media conspiracy to make gamers hate themselves for no reason!)

I also love that the so-called gamergaters often make the argument that they just want to have a discussion, but that they're being bullied out of public spaces or something. The discussion they want to have? "LETS NOT DISCUSS WOMEN AND VIDEO GAMES! ANYWHERE! EVEN ON WEBSITES I ALREADY AVOID!"
 
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He describes a system where indie developers, and writers of sites such as Destructoid, Kotaku, Polygon, etc., are in cahoots with one another to promote their political agenda, and blackmailing/firing/giving media blackout to developers and writers who simply disagree with them

Well, thats basically how non-gaming media works in my country. Political agenda is prime goal of their work. Is gaming journalism knee deep in similar s..… stable? :)

——
Well, this mess has at least one good outcome - there is a chance that Adam Baldwin will be voice actor in Kingdom Come. :)
 
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Like all grassroots movements, it is very chaotic, but one could say that about many different things such as "Occupy Wall Street". It is not relevant as to whether or not the "cause" in question has merit. And for the record I don't identify myself as a "Gamersgater"; much of the "gamer" scene doesn't particularly appeal to me, although I come from this background like all of you.

There is a lot of data to process, but that is true whether you are for or against. But let's take an amusing gaming analogy: when you begin a Call of Cthulhu investigation, you are faced with an multilayered onion of various clues and pieces of evidence which you are trying to peel at until you reveal Nyarlathotep and the various myth deities which you strongly suspect are behind it all; and while you are investigating, you will have to face their various allies and cultists who will try to misdirect you or make you go away.

Now back to seriousness, considering that some conservative bloggers have begun examining this from both a corruption standpoint and a political standpoint and find a link between both, it lends more credence to this. For example Adam Baldwin was recently on the Ed Morrissey show along with various guests for a roundtable where various of these points were discussed.

And no, it's not about trying to completely discourage this as a topic of discussion. But at some point, for some sites, you start beginning to wonder what they are trying to get at when it is repeated every day, where their readership is painted with the same brush as "chauvinists" who need to "check their privileges" and talked down to constantly, and when a game review can describe as much the gameplay as the degree of "progressivism" of the game. At some point you wonder whether you are reading Kotaku or Jezebel and it becomes too much.
 
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#gamergate ftw; good job Daniel and i wish u all the best with your game
 
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Wow. Glad I didn't back them.
Off my radar too if they're siding with vile people.
 
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