Gamasutra - Kickstarter, lemon markets, and bailouts

HiddenX

The Elder Spy
Staff Member
Original Sin Donor
Original Sin 2 Donor
Joined
October 18, 2006
Messages
20,092
Location
Germany
Mark Newheiser wrote an interesting article about the future of Kickstarter over at Gamasutra - some snippets:
Video game kickstarters rarely deliver on their promises. For the non-video game projects I've personally backed on Kickstarter, I've seen an average delay of two months over the original estimate. For the video-game projects I've backed, the average delay I'm currently tracking is over a year, but even that is tentative as more projects continue to push their dates back, and others may be on the verge of failure.

To take specific examples from the most funded video game projects, these are some approximate figures: Torment pushed its release date back 12 months (6 of which was called out during the campaign, due to stretch goals). Pillars of Eternity came out 11 months after its estimated date, Mighty Number 9 is targeting a date of five months after its original plan, Broken Age went two and a half years over plan to achieve a full release, Wasteland 2 achieved its full release 11 months late, Elite: Dangerous came out 9 months late, Homestruck is pushing a year overdue.

(…)

The point that concerns me is that systems like Kickstarter and Steam Early Access are in danger of becoming lemon markets. There's a principle in economics related to information asymmetry, that argues that when sellers know the quality of goods and buyers don't, there's no incentive to sell quality goods. If buyers who want to buy cherries can't tell the difference between cherries and lemons and lemons are cheaper, sellers who sell lemons will make more money than sellers who sell cherries. This results in a downward spiral where each lemon sold lowers the trust of buyers in the market, which in turn lowers what buyers are willing to pay since they're likely to end up with a lemon, which eventually drives cherry sellers out of the market completely.

(…)

Steam Early Access is in a similar position, the more games drop off the radar without ever achieving their promised full release, the less incentivized buyers are to take risks on future titles. If trust in the marketplace drops to zero, the only sellers who will remain are sellers who want to make a few bucks off an unpolished beta, and the only buyers who remain are the ones fine with paying for games of that quality. No one shows up to sell or buy cherries, when all they see on the market are lemons.

(…)

The risks taken by Kickstarter backers are one-sided. If I back the Oculus Rift and the creators use that funding to make billions, I don't see any of the benefit. We don't earn equity for our investments, or interest on our loans; money is donated in good faith. Faith is the currency of Kickstarter, and my fear is that as it continues to depreciate, the platform will end up being far less than it could be and deserving projects will be unable to raise funds. The end state of Kickstarter may be an advertising platform where the funds raised and the deadlines promised bear no relation to the actual budgets and schedules of the games involved, it simply becomes a marketing tool to assess the level of interest in a product. What else do you do when life gives you lemons?
More information.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
20,092
Location
Germany
Read the comment section, too - excellent replies.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
20,092
Location
Germany
One camp is quick to quote the "You aren't buying a finished product when you use kickstarter, you have no right to expect .... etc etc"

Another camp is quick to quote "You are not investing in the traditional sense, you are pre-buying for a product that won't be made unless its funded."

Its interesting to watch what people expect and what people think they have rights to.
 
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
2,871
without escrow or asset backing, kickstarter is setting your money on fire. not much else to say about that.
 
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Messages
470
The Gaming Nation will keep overpaying for crap and underpaying for treasures. That is all there is to remember about Kickstarter...
 
Joined
Oct 13, 2007
Messages
7,313
Good article and comments. :)

It's a gamble with the upside being modestly small, with the downside being the money you pledged. To treat it as venture capitalism is a bit askew. The money put up by individual investors is peanuts compared to venture capitalists (except maybe the platinum tiers, or some such, even then, not close, I think). So to expect large rewards or some ownership for the product comes off as a bit ludicrous.

Now if you pledged $100k or more, then you may have an argument for ownership and investment.
 
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Messages
15,682
Location
Studio City, CA
without escrow or asset backing, kickstarter is setting your money on fire. not much else to say about that.

Oh yes, the money I spent on Pillars of Eternity, Lords of Xulima, and Grim Dawn was set on fire. Oh, wait!? What are those great games doing in my Steam library?
 
Joined
Jan 29, 2014
Messages
2,719
Location
Vienna, Austria
We have an oversupply of games in general right now (not only Kickstarter games).
That leads to a high level of competition and many price cuts (Summer, Winter, Pre-Summer Sales,…).
Some game companies will not survive this, unfortunately.

It is the job of sites like RPGWatch to identify the good and the bad games, so that the good devs with interesting games survive on the long run.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
20,092
Location
Germany
Yes, I have seen duds and backed duds, but Kickstarter and Early access and Greenlight have led to a wondrous variety of games none of us would have ever seen just a couple short years ago. All of my favorite games recently and the ones I'm currently looking forward to the most have come from this model.

People are so short sighted. You can get angry at that one withered sapling that didn't grow, or you can broaden your view and enjoy the new vibrant and strange forest all around you. I don't cry over the $15-20 I've lost here or there — and, really, it's only been once or twice. It's been money spent so very well, even the money that went down the drain.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 16, 2010
Messages
4,813
$1500 pledged for KS games that have only recently started being released. I'm happy with most of what I've seen, although I'm fairly certain there will not be any more pledges from this guy. I would only do it again if it's the perfect storm of talent + infrastructure + subject of interest. No more disappointing pet projects by small teams who dream big, no matter how much I want to believe they can get their shit together and pull it off. Fool me once…
 
Joined
Apr 5, 2011
Messages
1,754
Location
San Juan Islands, WA
I agree with what Capt. Huggy Face wrote two posts above. Seems articles like these are published abundantly on the internet lately, or as they say click bait.

I'll continue to back any game that interests me, and if the project fails who cares. It will only cost me $15-30 to back a game, and most games are successful anyway.
 
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
36,424
Location
Spudlandia
Oh yes, the money I spent on Pillars of Eternity, Lords of Xulima, and Grim Dawn was set on fire. Oh, wait!? What are those great games doing in my Steam library?

and people have loved to gamble since the beginning of time.
 
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Messages
470
Stupid article.
 
Joined
Apr 17, 2007
Messages
5,749
To my mind, Kickstarter has been the best thing happening to the game industry for the last 2 decades, nothing less. I've backed a lot since Broken Age, and have been hugely enjoying the releases. Sure, maybe I'll lose money with projects that will never see the light of day, but for me, it's all been worth it. Infact I find all of these constant 'no one will ever make it on Kickstarter anymore', 'Kickstarter devs fail to deliver with YOUR money' articles that seem to have been trending for what, 2 years now, to come from a completely different universe than the one I am living in and experiencing.

As others said, I can stomach losing some money now and then (not sure I have lost money yet, but Sui Generis might be shaky ;)) to have this fantastic possibility for developers to do what they are passionate about and deliver to niché audiences who value their work. So what if it takes 1-3 years more than estimated, as long as they deliver and put their heart and soul in it. This is way better than not having those games.

Well, my opinion.
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
38
Meh, I've gambled and lost more on the lottery than I ever have on Kickstarter, and I've had bigger wins from the latter (FTL, Divinity:Original Sin, Pillars, Wasteland 2, hopefully Torment, etc) than I ever got from the former.
 
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
364
I would have to say most of the kick starter RPG go into it with the best intentions. It is also on us the backers to make sure we are fine with the gamble on our money on who we back and don't back.
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
3,381
We have an oversupply of games in general right now (not only Kickstarter games).
That leads to a high level of competition and many price cuts (Summer, Winter, Pre-Summer Sales,…).
Some game companies will not survive this, unfortunately.

It is the job of sites like RPGWatch to identify the good and the bad games, so that the good devs with interesting games survive on the long run.

Oh yes, review sites/magazines do such a great job. That's why Vampire: Bloodlines did so well (as did Planescape: Torment, thanks to wise, wise reviewers) and garbage like the yearly Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed get low scores for being rehashes of rehashes... OH WAIT...

As for the Kickstarter naysayers. It must seriously piss you off that we keep backing games we love and that the failure rate is so minimal/obvious... that the ONLY thing you guys can attack is delays (which are an industry wide reality, for EVERY release) and the market being full of titles. Don't see a single, convincing argument from you guys.
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Messages
274
Location
Toronto, Canada
The same whiners complaining about Kickstarter and Early Access today, were the same whiners complaining about how the industry ignores them and no longer makes RPGs. Basically when you are a miserable human being, nothing is ever good enough and you'll always figure out a way to be the victim.

I agree +1000000 Kickstarter has been nothing but a wonder for me! Apart from a few flops (which I invested small amounts in) I've been very happy! Thing is, many of these titles would just not exist, so peoples logic is confusing to be generous. How would you buy a game on a Steam Sale if it had never been funded?!?!


To my mind, Kickstarter has been the best thing happening to the game industry for the last 2 decades, nothing less. I've backed a lot since Broken Age, and have been hugely enjoying the releases. Sure, maybe I'll lose money with projects that will never see the light of day, but for me, it's all been worth it. Infact I find all of these constant 'no one will ever make it on Kickstarter anymore', 'Kickstarter devs fail to deliver with YOUR money' articles that seem to have been trending for what, 2 years now, to come from a completely different universe than the one I am living in and experiencing.

As others said, I can stomach losing some money now and then (not sure I have lost money yet, but Sui Generis might be shaky ;)) to have this fantastic possibility for developers to do what they are passionate about and deliver to niché audiences who value their work. So what if it takes 1-3 years more than estimated, as long as they deliver and put their heart and soul in it. This is way better than not having those games.

Well, my opinion.
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2010
Messages
274
Location
Toronto, Canada
I haven't lost anything by contributing to a Kickstarter yet. But I suppose there will always be exceptions. The currency of trust ties in with the desire to stay in the business; for that you need to deliver a worthy end product for those Kickstarter funds. Contributors will remember whether you succeed or not.
 
Joined
Mar 22, 2012
Messages
5,531
Location
Seattle
Back
Top Bottom