Dragon Age 2 - Hands-On Preview @ Videogamer

But I think we should remember that Bioware themselves said that Mass Effect 2 was the best game they ever made - which is almost a direct quote from one of their top guys.

I'm sure they think so, but I certainly don't - and I'm getting a very strong vibe of them following that kind of mainstreaming approach.

I'm afraid that feeling of "We made one HELL of a game" will only be reaffirmed for them when they receive hundreds upon hundreds of "Game Of The Year" awards in December/January. Or at least that's what I'm afraid of.

As much as it pains me to say this, but there a probably a TON of people who like the direction they are taking. Personally I think they should be paying more attention to the people that have always been with them in the first place.
 
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As much as it pains me to say this, but there a probably a TON of people who like the direction they are taking.
Well I did like ME2 more than ME1, but then I've always struggled with Sci-fi RPGs and think the setting makes for better shooters. Megatraveller was probably the last Sci-fi RPG I really enjoyed.

Personally I think they should be paying more attention to the people that have always been with them in the first place.
Why? Do they buy more copies than the mass market? It's quite simple - they'll pay attention to the people who give them the most revenue, as any public business should do. If you think you're a minority then you have to up your spending to compete and make your voice heard. It's easily done - if every old-schooler bought three or four copies of Bioware games then they'd be much more inclined to listen.

That's why I have four copies of The Witcher (2x collectors).
 
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Well I did like ME2 more than ME1, but then I've always struggled with Sci-fi RPGs and think the setting makes for better shooters. Megatraveller was probably the last Sci-fi RPG I really enjoyed.

Why? Do they buy more copies than the mass market? It's quite simple - they'll pay attention to the people who give them the most revenue, as any public business should do. If you think you're a minority then you have to up your spending to compete and make your voice heard. It's easily done - if every old-schooler bought three or four copies of Bioware games then they'd be much more inclined to listen.

That's why I have four copies of The Witcher (2x collectors).

I would love to but I don't have the money to buy four copies of the same game unless it x-mas and im giving them as gifts.
 
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Speaking with great authority (I summer over at the bioware social forums), the PC version is no different from the console versions save two respects:

1) The camera can be detached from a character and flown around the map.

2) Auto attack is enabled (like DA:O).

Besides this, the only changes between them are UI tweaks (i.e. abilities can be mapped to buttons for quick accessibility on the consoles, ala Mass Effect).

If you want to know exactly what's going on with Dragon Age 2 under the hood, pay attention to this link: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/141/index/4715441/1&lf=8

That seems to be a little known thread on the Bioware social forum where one of the developers did an impromptu Q&A regarding mechanistic details. I have to set to only display dev posts and it runs 16 pages. No clue how it looks when viewed normally (you have to register to view it in the filtered form, I believe).

It's pretty damn depressing.. (and this thread predates the companion inventory nerf info).

*eDit: Here are some quick quotes —>

Dev said:
If you remove all weapons from a character, they will have default versions equipped, yes. Which weapon style it decides to give you hasn't had a system finalized yet.

i.e. No bare handed fighting. You will always have a weapon equipped.

Dev said:
Q: In Origins, there was a higher enemy count on the PC than the consoles, can you comment if that difference is staying for DA2 or will any eventual enemy count on screen be the same between PC and consoles for DA2?

A: The game is the same on both systems, so the PC and console versions will have the same number of enemies.

Dev said:
Q: Is the plan in DA2 to make the combat have the clarity of ME2's? I found that in that game you always knew what you were meant to do to fight a certain enemy. For example, in ME2 if you're fighting an armoured enemy you
know that you need to use a heavy pistol, warp or similar. I found stuff like that slightly hazy in DAO.

A: The differences in creature vulnerabilities are to be more pronounced in DA2. I don't know about any UI changes to communicate visually. It may end up being trial and error to discover what works and what doesn't. Each category of enemy is consistent in its strengths and weaknesses though.

Dev said:
Q: Are characters in your party going to have fewer abilities to draw on in combat? The way I understand it is that you are going to be upgrading the talents you already have rather than continually getting new ones to avoid that situation you had at the end of Awakening where the quick bar was stretching out across the entire screen.

A: One of the aims of DA2 is to make the abilities more distinct and unique. This, combined with upgrades and investment requirements within individual trees (you must have spent X points in this tree before getting the highest level abilities), characters will generally be more focused and have less overall active abilities. Balancing is still ongoing with requirements.

Dev said:
Q: Will there be separate quick bars for alternate weapons?

A: Currently you cannot switch weapon sets.

dEV said:
Q: does displacement/magic resistance still use the 1-(displacement/magic resistance persentage) when considering if a spell/ability hits or not? Meaning player stats are irrelevant?
or does it use attack(a flat number)-MR(flat number)=persentage for spell to land?

A: Displacement has a 100-X percent chance of ignoring any hit result, where X is the value of that attribute.

Magic Resistance is slightly different. It reduces magical damage and effect durations by that percentage. This will be subject to balancing and we may need to rework that once more testing has been done.

P.S. These are mined from just 3 random posts by the dev on page 13 of the 16. There is MUCH MUCH more lurking.. soak it up.

*eDit #2: One more -->

Dev said:
A: Also personal view question i suppose, doesn't this new system make it feel rather silly if all weapons are identically effective against given armour type? I mean, DAO didn't have explicit slash/crush/pierce mechanics but the armour penetration was a rather elegant approximation of that, and allowed for system where certain classes could be either more effective against others or set up as specific counter. Does uniform weapon damage provide some benefit which outweights the simplification... or do you consider the simplification itself the benefit for some reason?

Q: Originally DAO did have slashing, piercing and blunt type damages, but that was removed. Armor penetration was useful in distinguishing different weapon types, but also served as a balance against how the armor stat was implemented. It was a fixed number and if that number was higher than your damage, you were out of luck. Armor penetration could counter that. Unfortunately for armor penetration, the bonuses give were usually 1 for 1, so it was always better to take the equivalent damage bonus instead.

With armor now being a percentage reduction of damage, armor penetration doesn't matter so much since you'll still always be doing some amount of damage. We're also trying to emphasize the different types of damage (physical, fire, cold, etc), so having a de-emphasis on armor (physical damage resistance) helps with that.

Wow..
 
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Why? Do they buy more copies than the mass market? It's quite simple - they'll pay attention to the people who give them the most revenue, as any public business should do. If you think you're a minority then you have to up your spending to compete and make your voice heard. It's easily done - if every old-schooler bought three or four copies of Bioware games then they'd be much more inclined to listen.

I'm going to sound quite silly/immature here, but I'm still going to say what I have to say.

First of all, that "buy more copies" doesn't make sense. I would be supporting games that I don't disagree with. Why would I buy four DA2's when I think Bioware is going in the wrong direction. They wouldn't be more inclined to listen, they'd just smirk at the huge amount of games they sold.

I think it's obvious that Bioware has grown into the large company they are now because they captured the hears of old-school RPG fans with a relatively accurate REAL-TIME translation of the AD&D ruleset with Baldur's Gate in 1998. They gained hordes of fans and collected huge critical acclaim with those games. I think a big part of their reputation is based on that original trilogy.

If I were ever to be involved in the development of a video game, I would be unable to deny my long-term fans the game they want. Sure, I can be an irrational bigot sometimes, but there's no denying that the people over at Bioware love video games and love their fans. So, why are they not paying attention to us? I know that everyone want to make a bunch of cash so that they can undertake bigger projects, but don't tell me there's no way to make a good, solid income WITHOUT making an interactive RPG movie, ESPECIALLY for a company with the reputation of Bioware. People will eat up anything they push out, because critics are going to praise the writing, story, characters and combat of their games no matter how good/bad it is (to a certain degree).

Long story short, I think the excuse of "they have to earn money to make a living for themselves" is not a good one IMO. They should be perfectly able to make a game that appeals to the majority of the people who attend the Watch here, and still make profit.

The problem is with mainstream video game reviewers I believe. Some of the reviews for Bioware's latest games have been totally unjustified in my opinion.

Look at the review of Jade Empire at IGN. Anyone recall that one? The reviewer gave that game a 9.9/10 and stated that he actually wanted to lower the scores of all other Xbox RPGs so that he could make Jade Empire look even better. Now, we all know opinions can be subjective, but they've got to appeal to a core of truth. I do not believe for a second that JE was worth a 9.9, because the story was dull (and had a TERRIBLE ending), the combat was an unfortunate failure, it had little depth in almost every aspect of gamplay, and it was pretty darn short and restricted to boot.

Another example: the Gamespot review of Dragon Age. My arch-nemesis, Kevin Van Ord, gave the game a 9.5/10. Some of you might say that he is correct, but I believe the reason why is not correct. Some of the reasons he gives for awarding the game a 9.5 is that the writing is simply "THAT GOOD!!!" (this line includes a zoom-shot on his face in the video review). I think the writing is decent, definitely above average for a video game, but in the end it still comes off as silly a lot of times. Praising the story through the roof is also not plausible for me. I thought the storyline was terribly clichéd (which is not uncommon in an RPG, I admit) and for all the "details" Bioware crammed into the game, there were surprisingly few details on what the hell the deal was with the Darkspawn and the Arch-Demon. But then again, Van Ord is the same man that said Eternal Sonata had a brilliant story and beautiful graphics…

In the Mass Effect 2 review over at IGN the reviewer (the ever-incompetent Eric Brudvig) stated that Mass Effect 2 also had a brilliant story and was one of "the most personal experiences ever". C'mon guys, let's be serious here, did anyone really think that ME2's story was good? There was barely any story to speak of, and what story there is doesn't built on the previously established story/universe of ME1 (I sort of liked it's simple old-school Sci-Fi storyline) and it only poses more questions without answering one. I mean, I'm hunting a race of synthetic humanoids and I can't even comment on The Illusive Man's (What a horrendous name BTW) cybernetic eyes? Shepard must be blind. Calling it one of the most personal experiences ever when you can barely customize Shepard or make a whole lot of choices in the game makes it even more unbelievable. Bioware said that the original ME1 savegames stored up to something like 150 choices you made in the game (not that I recall making 150 choices in that on-rails Shooter/RPG), but the only conversations I recall were of this type:

A random NPC triggers a conversation when walking past it

Random NPC: "You are Shepard right? Weren't you dead?"
Shepard: "I was, but now they resurrected me with Billions of Space-cash to kick some alien butt."
Random NPC: "I see. I wanted to thank you for saving me on Noveria/Feros/Vermire/Whatever."
Shepard: "No problem. I live to serve."
Random NPC: "Cool."

And then you can't talk to Mr./Mrs. Random NPC anymore.

And does anyone recall that scene when Garrus walks into the Comm room when he should have been in the sick bay?
"You do realise this plan has me walking into hell too? Just like old times!"

and
"Hell Garrus, you were always ugly. Slap some face-paint on there and no one will even notice."
Garrus: "Ha-ah! Don't make me laugh, damn it. My face is barely holding together as it is."
Garrus: "Everyone was always ignoring you and hitting on me. Time for you to get a fair shot at it."

Yeah, superb writing there guys! And let's not mention Joker/Seth Green shall we? I almost started to weep out of anger when I found out he survived the Normandy crash.

Mega-long story short, I believe mainstream media has been encouraging Bioware's latest games for all the wrong reasons. I'm not saying those games were BAD, but the rave reviews only make Bioware want to make "BIGGER" and "BETTER" games, thereby ignoring more than a few what I believe to be key elements of the genre.
That's why I have four copies of The Witcher (2x collectors).

Also, I don't think most of us have the cash to pay for that.

Anyway, I realize my post will irritate most because it's perhaps a little on the childish/juvenile/immature side of things, but it is sort of how I feel about Bioware's latest games, and certainly how I feel about the reviews that have been popping up on "mainstream" video game sites. I apologize if I irritated someone with it, but I just had to say it :)
 
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I'm going to sound quite silly/immature here, but I'm still going to say what I have to say.

First of all, that "buy more copies" doesn't make sense. I would be supporting games that I don't disagree with. Why would I buy four DA2's when I think Bioware is going in the wrong direction. They wouldn't be more inclined to listen, they'd just smirk at the huge amount of games they sold.
I meant buy more copies of games that you think are going in the right direction - in my case, The Witcher. It won't work unless you excercise some discretion in what you play and when you buy it.

If I were ever to be involved in the development of a video game, I would be unable to deny my long-term fans the game they want. Sure, I can be an irrational bigot sometimes, but there's no denying that the people over at Bioware love video games and love their fans. So, why are they not paying attention to us?
They are, to some extent, but why should they ignore the rest of the market too?
I know that everyone want to make a bunch of cash so that they can undertake bigger projects, but don't tell me there's no way to make a good, solid income WITHOUT making an interactive RPG movie, ESPECIALLY for a company with the reputation of Bioware. People will eat up anything they push out, because critics are going to praise the writing, story, characters and combat of their games no matter how good/bad it is (to a certain degree).

Long story short, I think the excuse of "they have to earn money to make a living for themselves" is not a good one IMO. They should be perfectly able to make a game that appeals to the majority of the people who attend the Watch here, and still make profit.
I don't agree with your assessment of the numbers. For them to be profitable making games for the tiny amount of people here at the Watch I think we'd each have to be paying hundreds, if not thousands of dollars per game. [/quote]

The problem is with mainstream video game reviewers I believe. Some of the reviews for Bioware's latest games have been totally unjustified in my opinion.

Look at the review of Jade Empire at IGN. Anyone recall that one? The reviewer gave that game a 9.9/10 and stated that he actually wanted to lower the scores of all other Xbox RPGs so that he could make Jade Empire look even better. Now, we all know opinions can be subjective, but they've got to appeal to a core of truth. I do not believe for a second that JE was worth a 9.9, because the story was dull (and had a TERRIBLE ending), the combat was an unfortunate failure, it had little depth in almost every aspect of gamplay, and it was pretty darn short and restricted to boot.
Never ever played JE - doesn't appeal to me in the slightest.

Another example: the Gamespot review of Dragon Age. My arch-nemesis, Kevin Van Ord, gave the game a 9.5/10. Some of you might say that he is correct, but I believe the reason why is not correct. Some of the reasons he gives for awarding the game a 9.5 is that the writing is simply "THAT GOOD!!!" (this line includes a zoom-shot on his face in the video review). I think the writing is decent, definitely above average for a video game, but in the end it still comes off as silly a lot of times. Praising the story through the roof is also not plausible for me. I thought the storyline was terribly clichéd (which is not uncommon in an RPG, I admit) and for all the "details" Bioware crammed into the game, there were surprisingly few details on what the hell the deal was with the Darkspawn and the Arch-Demon.
While I agree DA:p wasn't perfect, nearly all my D&D friends think it's the best game that has ever been made, and talk about it in almost identical terms to the Gamespot review. So for whatever reason, at least he's reflecting (some) real world opinion. Definition of what story is is a tricky one. I thought the *backstory* was excellent, I thought a few elements of the gameplay story was good, and some parts of the story were cliched and bad.

But then again, Van Ord is the same man that said Eternal Sonata had a brilliant story and beautiful graphics…
It does on both counts. :p

In the Mass Effect 2 review over at IGN the reviewer (the ever-incompetent Eric Brudvig) stated that Mass Effect 2 also had a brilliant story and was one of "the most personal experiences ever". C'mon guys, let's be serious here, did anyone really think that ME2's story was good? There was barely any story to speak of, and what story there is doesn't built on the previously established story/universe of ME1 (I sort of liked it's simple old-school Sci-Fi storyline) and it only poses more questions without answering one. I mean, I'm hunting a race of synthetic humanoids and I can't even comment on The Illusive Man's (What a horrendous name BTW) cybernetic eyes? Shepard must be blind. Calling it one of the most personal experiences ever when you can barely customize Shepard or make a whole lot of choices in the game makes it even more unbelievable.
Again, definition of story and personal experiences. The game storyline was poor IMHO, but the NPC characterisation was some of the best I've seen recently, and it was the interaction with the NPCs that made it a personal experience. There's also storytelling through gameplay - something that Half life 2 did very well.

Also, I don't think most of us have the cash to pay for that.
*shrugs* putting my ultra-stereotype/generalising hat on, old school gamers are likely to be older than mass market gamers. We're likely to have been in jobs for a while vs being on pocket money, and truth be told, we're probably geeks, thus in relatively well paying IT or scientific jobs. Thus I would content that the long term fans and old school gamers should be able to outspend the 16 yr old who occasionally works at tesco/[insert regional low end weekend job here]

Anyway, I realize my post will irritate most because it's perhaps a little on the childish/juvenile/immature side of things,
Not noticeably. It was well articulated IHMO.
 
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Buying 4 copies of a game you like will only be that much more painful, because you'll have wasted a lot of money. Unless you can outbuy the masses, which will never happen until the majority of the minority start buying dozens of copies. Oh, and they also need to outbuy the sales on the consoles.

Some people might think that's a reasonable approach to counteract greedy top people - but I don't think so.

Developers are not the ones getting paid the big bucks - no matter how successful a game is. It will be the top people with little or no influence on actual development and artistic design - and they can do whatever they want on a whim, because they think it will make them more money. If DA2 doesn't do well, they won't naturally conclude they made a mistake and go back to DA roots. They'll conclude they somehow marketed it wrong, or spent too much money developing this or that - but they'll never go hardcore again.

I can appreciate the thought of desperate added support, but it's futile and ignorant to believe it will make even the slightest difference. It means you're actually naive enough to think that your money goes directly to the developers, and I'm afraid that's not at all what happens.

The issue is that companies grow bigger and bigger, and ultimately - like with Bioware and Blizzard - they lose control of the gigantic machinery. No "man on the floor" to hold artistic visions together - and it's simply a bunch of businessmen and politicians calling the shots. The bigger they are, the less artistic they will be.

It's the nature of things.

The challenge for artists is always to stay small and not get obsessed with how big you can get. Because the art will suffer once you lose control.

It's happened countless times throughout history - and I find it incredible that even in a greed-driven economy like the one in the US, people are still unaware of the consequences.
 
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