Hardcore Games - 12 Best PC RPGs of All Time
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DArtagnan
Guest
Why would they need to do constant reviews?
How about history articles, interviews, previews and so forth?
The kickstarter scene is exploding with a variety of hardcore games. There's enough material for years - and it would be a lot more interesting than yet another pointless Top X list.
Nameless one
Wizzard
There are actually.Take a look at Matrix games or Slitherine page, there are good number of hardcore strategies and their expansions coning out relatively often.
I have no problem putting so called "Non hardcore" games in their list. Nor with them reviewing the occasional mobile or console game. Sheez, we here at the watch occasionally not only delve into the same territory but also get into adventure and strategy games sometimes. But . . . We are still RPGWatch.
In any event I gave up getting mad at top ten list years ago and now just like to read em and get different peoples take.
In any event I gave up getting mad at top ten list years ago and now just like to read em and get different peoples take.
D
DArtagnan
Guest
I don't think you understand.
Once again, there's nothing wrong with mainstream or casual games.
But it makes no sense to me to be a site called Hardcore Games - and yet not focus on hardcore games.
That's all it is.
To be fair, I'd say that list is about 50/50. I don't consider ME2, Oblivion, Skyrim, or Diablo 2 hardcore, but arguments could be made for most of the other titles.
And yeah... where's V:TM-B?
I understand. I just have no problem with a site called Hardcore Games devoting some of their time to other areas of gaming. I don't believe they lose their street cred or their focus by talking about mainstream or casual games. And actually, it wouldn't surprise me if they were all the stronger for it.
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DArtagnan
Guest
They have nothing to lose with me, as I don't know them - and I have no interest in them. I'm talking about their name and how it doesn't make sense to cover mobile casual games and make top X lists with mainstream games - if you're a hardcore site. Obviously, they're NOT a hardcore site. That's where the confusing name comes into the picture.
I have no problem with it, though.
But that's just me, and I think this discussion has run its course by now
Hi RPG Watch,
We are a brand new, small independent site, and, there is a point.
The point is to cover hardcore gaming in general, and as a secondary concern the emerging f2p market, which is, to a degree, converging between mobile gaming and PC gaming. In the last year that Steam f2p category has blown up, a lot of those titles are cross-platform (mobile and PC), and some among the f2p crowd (very few) are core games—Path of Exile, Team Fortress, WarFrame, a few others. We are also delving into MMOs, and titles from Microdevs because, if you spent some time with non-casual mobile games, you’ll find a few gems being churned out by certain micro devs like Tales of Illyria and Heroes of Steel (both satisfying mobile titles from a core gamer’s point of view). We think these are all compelling emerging markets and also that there should be a space to criticize and express concerns about these markets and their influences, especially when it comes to freemium marketing, which can get rather f*%#ed up. To that end, we are covering both the above and essential core titles as well to throw the former into sharp relief. You’ll find articles on, and reviews of, freemium titles as well as articles analyzing and criticizing the whole “games as a service” movement, a movement and a term we find disconcerting to say the least.
I’m honored that RPG Watch readers have bothered to take a look and discuss our relevance. Honestly, I only read about half the comments tonight, as I figure it might get too depressing--but, I’ll be back tomorrow to scour this little thread; when I’m well-rested and can better whether the criticism. For those who are not chanting: “you suck” right now, I ask that you give us a moment. The writing is top-notch, and remember: developing our MO as the f2p/core markets evolve. We think that’s fitting, that we’ve begun at a somewhat abstract yet sound starting point. You should check back in on us from time to time.
And, really, thanks for the input.
Al Jackson
Founder & Editor
Hardcore Droid
Hardcore Games
We are a brand new, small independent site, and, there is a point.
The point is to cover hardcore gaming in general, and as a secondary concern the emerging f2p market, which is, to a degree, converging between mobile gaming and PC gaming. In the last year that Steam f2p category has blown up, a lot of those titles are cross-platform (mobile and PC), and some among the f2p crowd (very few) are core games—Path of Exile, Team Fortress, WarFrame, a few others. We are also delving into MMOs, and titles from Microdevs because, if you spent some time with non-casual mobile games, you’ll find a few gems being churned out by certain micro devs like Tales of Illyria and Heroes of Steel (both satisfying mobile titles from a core gamer’s point of view). We think these are all compelling emerging markets and also that there should be a space to criticize and express concerns about these markets and their influences, especially when it comes to freemium marketing, which can get rather f*%#ed up. To that end, we are covering both the above and essential core titles as well to throw the former into sharp relief. You’ll find articles on, and reviews of, freemium titles as well as articles analyzing and criticizing the whole “games as a service” movement, a movement and a term we find disconcerting to say the least.
I’m honored that RPG Watch readers have bothered to take a look and discuss our relevance. Honestly, I only read about half the comments tonight, as I figure it might get too depressing--but, I’ll be back tomorrow to scour this little thread; when I’m well-rested and can better whether the criticism. For those who are not chanting: “you suck” right now, I ask that you give us a moment. The writing is top-notch, and remember: developing our MO as the f2p/core markets evolve. We think that’s fitting, that we’ve begun at a somewhat abstract yet sound starting point. You should check back in on us from time to time.
And, really, thanks for the input.
Al Jackson
Founder & Editor
Hardcore Droid
Hardcore Games
- Joined
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Thank you for the explanation, and welcome to the Watch.
Don't worry about DArtagnan, he often argues for the sake of arguing. If you tell him something is blue, he'll refute it by going on about how it's clearly navy blue because it's obviously identical to the blue worn by the British Royal Navy. Any attempt to claim that navy blue is a form of blue will then be met with some form of recycled argument over and over again until you simply stop paying attention.
You get used to it though, and he's actually a decent fellow, as are most of the posters around here.
Don't worry about DArtagnan, he often argues for the sake of arguing. If you tell him something is blue, he'll refute it by going on about how it's clearly navy blue because it's obviously identical to the blue worn by the British Royal Navy. Any attempt to claim that navy blue is a form of blue will then be met with some form of recycled argument over and over again until you simply stop paying attention.
You get used to it though, and he's actually a decent fellow, as are most of the posters around here.
D
DArtagnan
Guest
Yes, I argue for the sake of arguing when I disagree with people who want to appear to be right, rather than actually be right
As for your site, that sounds decent enough. All I'm suggesting is a name-change to be less confusing, as I'm not the only person in the world who would expect something other than mobile F2P games when reading "Hardcore Games". I can give you my personal guarentee of that
If that opinion is arguing for the sake of arguing, so be it.
As for your site, that sounds decent enough. All I'm suggesting is a name-change to be less confusing, as I'm not the only person in the world who would expect something other than mobile F2P games when reading "Hardcore Games". I can give you my personal guarentee of that
If that opinion is arguing for the sake of arguing, so be it.
It's hard to think of a better name though. Despite not every article being about games that are considered hardcore, their focus is obviously primarily on either niche or hardcore games, not mainstream ones. "Niche Games" would likely attract very few readers.
And this poll of theirs plus phones games + name made gamers go away. At least, it has me.
If they chose to call themselves Casual Gamers, it would be more fitting. There is nothing hardcore about phone games, no matter how you try to present the argument, the whole point of those games is to take away money from casual gamers by any means possible.
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DArtagnan
Guest
Well, if your audience is niche gamers - you're not being particularly realistic if you want the mainstream audience to visit
Anyway, I think my interest in the subject is done. I gave my opinion, and that's really all there is to it.
Feel very, very free to ignore it!
Anyway, I think my interest in the subject is done. I gave my opinion, and that's really all there is to it.
Feel very, very free to ignore it!
This is simply not true. These days you can even get Baldur's Gate on Android. Yes, most F2P schemes are cash grabs, but don't label every single phone game as a game for casuals or kids.
It's not as if hardcore means "keyboard + mouse" or some other form of complex control scheme. It's simply a term describing the level of dedication required. Chess, for example, can be played by casuals, but it's extremely difficult to master, so it is also possible to be hardcore. Most MMOs can be played by casuals, but quite a few of them cater to the hardcore as well.
All hardcore games can be played by casuals. But they will not play them long because it takes effort to become good at them. That is what hardcore means.
Where games like Skyrim or D3 take almost 0 effort to be good.
While there is Baldur's Gate for android and iOS, it is meant for tablets, not phones.
And games like that are only a few in the sea of casual money grabbers. And still, it is better to play them on a computer.
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HG
Hey,
To those of you who have said supportive things thank you. To D'Artagnan: I ‘ll say only this: my middle name is Athos. Yes, sir. The courtyard at noon.
Really. you’re kind of right and your point is well taken. Some insight:
The initial concept, again, was to focus on Core PC and Mobile games (that means tablets too, always does and games like Xcom, BG 2, Tales of Illyria, Star Traders 2 etc..) and do everything else-F2P and freemium—tangentially, but, because we are brand new and I necessarily must spend time training new writers—most of whom are not yet ready for big titles--there has been an influx of smaller titles reviewed on HG. Also, as To D'Artagnan suggested, it’s becoming clear that we have cast our net a bit too wide for the opening stage of a gaming site, so we are, were already temporarily pulling back on freemium mobile and focusing more on F2P PC games and what hardcore PC titles we can muster (If you are following new developments on Steam you know that there are core F2P titles, albeit only a handful right now).
Because of the new writer phenomenon, we have only been able to review a hardcore PC game a week, but that will increase with time. Besides the lists, 4 weeks back it was Divinity: OS, 3 weeks back Risen 3, and last week the AOW expansion, this week, God willing, we’ll publish a review of Wasteland 2, which is absolutely brilliant. I have 3 editors right now, besides myself, who I can trust with major core PC titles, because they must be done right, and they are splitting their duties between Hardcore Games and its sister-site Hardcore Droid. In short: bear with us.
Again, we will focus more on core mobile and PC titles in the months to come (Note: if you believe that core gaming is impossible on mobile and you’ve never played Xcom or BG on a tablet—like a laptop, a tablet is a mobile device. You really need to do so before you can comment). My other site, Hardcore Droid, came out on the other end, eventually. Hardcore Droid’s not Android Central, I know, we also don’t have millions behind us. But HD does boast close to a 1K subscribers, 10k FB fans and we see around 1-2K UVs a day (though we still don’t make much bread); out editor/new-writer-gate-keeper is 27 year veteran journalist and former professor of journalism at Rutgers (we train all of our new guys), and we sport writers from the likes of the Huffington Post, IGN as well as an additional small handful of pro writers, which, considering that we have no money behind us and the whole things is run out of sheer interest by a guy who works full-time in the day as an inner-city high school teacher means we really love games. Two years in now (with Hardcore Droid) and it’s clear to us that we can’t be doing this for riches or fame, we are however very serious about doing all we can to develop a great product. Sorry for the boasting/tirade, and that’s all HD not HG, right? My point is that we’re doing well with HD and I’m sure we can do it again with HG. We are just starting to develop Hardcore Games. It’s in beta, so to speak. I stand by it as a good site as is, but as a many have suggested here we still need to tweak it quite a bit. Your comments and criticisms are gold, and I’m taking all of them into account. So, if there is any interest among you reading this: give us a few months, or check back in sometime.
Most of all, thank you for welcoming me to RPG Watch. Really cool. The first real video game I ever played was Ultima I on my buddy’s Atari 2600 (Ultimas II and III on his IIGS and IV and V on my Commodore 64). Since U1, I’ve been obsessed with RPGs, so this is the perfect site for me. And, thank you also too for talking about my new site at all. Really.
Al
Hey,
To those of you who have said supportive things thank you. To D'Artagnan: I ‘ll say only this: my middle name is Athos. Yes, sir. The courtyard at noon.
Really. you’re kind of right and your point is well taken. Some insight:
The initial concept, again, was to focus on Core PC and Mobile games (that means tablets too, always does and games like Xcom, BG 2, Tales of Illyria, Star Traders 2 etc..) and do everything else-F2P and freemium—tangentially, but, because we are brand new and I necessarily must spend time training new writers—most of whom are not yet ready for big titles--there has been an influx of smaller titles reviewed on HG. Also, as To D'Artagnan suggested, it’s becoming clear that we have cast our net a bit too wide for the opening stage of a gaming site, so we are, were already temporarily pulling back on freemium mobile and focusing more on F2P PC games and what hardcore PC titles we can muster (If you are following new developments on Steam you know that there are core F2P titles, albeit only a handful right now).
Because of the new writer phenomenon, we have only been able to review a hardcore PC game a week, but that will increase with time. Besides the lists, 4 weeks back it was Divinity: OS, 3 weeks back Risen 3, and last week the AOW expansion, this week, God willing, we’ll publish a review of Wasteland 2, which is absolutely brilliant. I have 3 editors right now, besides myself, who I can trust with major core PC titles, because they must be done right, and they are splitting their duties between Hardcore Games and its sister-site Hardcore Droid. In short: bear with us.
Again, we will focus more on core mobile and PC titles in the months to come (Note: if you believe that core gaming is impossible on mobile and you’ve never played Xcom or BG on a tablet—like a laptop, a tablet is a mobile device. You really need to do so before you can comment). My other site, Hardcore Droid, came out on the other end, eventually. Hardcore Droid’s not Android Central, I know, we also don’t have millions behind us. But HD does boast close to a 1K subscribers, 10k FB fans and we see around 1-2K UVs a day (though we still don’t make much bread); out editor/new-writer-gate-keeper is 27 year veteran journalist and former professor of journalism at Rutgers (we train all of our new guys), and we sport writers from the likes of the Huffington Post, IGN as well as an additional small handful of pro writers, which, considering that we have no money behind us and the whole things is run out of sheer interest by a guy who works full-time in the day as an inner-city high school teacher means we really love games. Two years in now (with Hardcore Droid) and it’s clear to us that we can’t be doing this for riches or fame, we are however very serious about doing all we can to develop a great product. Sorry for the boasting/tirade, and that’s all HD not HG, right? My point is that we’re doing well with HD and I’m sure we can do it again with HG. We are just starting to develop Hardcore Games. It’s in beta, so to speak. I stand by it as a good site as is, but as a many have suggested here we still need to tweak it quite a bit. Your comments and criticisms are gold, and I’m taking all of them into account. So, if there is any interest among you reading this: give us a few months, or check back in sometime.
Most of all, thank you for welcoming me to RPG Watch. Really cool. The first real video game I ever played was Ultima I on my buddy’s Atari 2600 (Ultimas II and III on his IIGS and IV and V on my Commodore 64). Since U1, I’ve been obsessed with RPGs, so this is the perfect site for me. And, thank you also too for talking about my new site at all. Really.
Al
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2014
- Messages
- 12
- Joined
- September 26, 2007
- Messages
- 3,474
You played Ultima 1-5 (and I'm going to assume 6-7 as well), and you think your list is reasonable while not including any Ultima games? Very interesting.
(Granted, you claim you played Ultima I on an Atari 2600, and Ultima I was never available for the Atari 2600...)
(Granted, you claim you played Ultima I on an Atari 2600, and Ultima I was never available for the Atari 2600...)
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- Joined
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I guess you don't even know what an Atari 2600 is if you think it might have had floppy disks.
Oh, and your other comment? I never meant to imply that you were lying. My point was that if you think you played Ultima I on an Atari 2600, your memory of that time isn't very good to begin with. (Further proof followed, see above.) I guess the subtlety was lost on you.
As for Ultimas holding up, of course you're entitled to your opinion just as I am. It just isn't worth my time to argue this with a person who puts Oblivion on their "top 12 RPGs of all time" list. Sorry.
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