Baldur's Gate I is charming

Maybe the devs saw this (I don't know) and invented the thing which still impresses me deeply to this day : The "internal chats" within the group, depending on the dispüosition of the cvharscters (don't remember a better word for it right now) : Neutral, good, evil, chaotic …

This is something I have seen ONLY in BG and in BGII, and it still astonishes me that no-one has tried this after that - of the games I know and have played myself.

Of the games I've played Kotor, Kotor2, Jade Empire, Neverwinter Nights 2 all have this. AFAIK Mass effect and Dragon Age have it as well.
 
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IIRC, only NWN2 wasn't developed by Bioware, out of that list.

Kotor 2 as well. But that is irrelevant as I was replying to Alrik's claim that he hadnt seen it in other games besides BG (I expanded the quote to clarify). :)

EDIT: Thinking about it the list includes almost all party-based A-list RPGs since BG2. The only post-BG2 party based game I've played that suffered from limited banters was Drakensang, and even that game has SOME banter (somewhat comparable to Arcanum from what I can tell from playing through about half of it).
 
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Actually, to be honest, Dragon Age did it, and did it pretty well.


I agree, DA did do party banter quite nicely, it was one of the few things I really liked about it. I just wish they had done a better job with the level design, enemy variety, level scaling etc...
 
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Heck if we went by system requirements then we would have to change the definition every 4 or 5 years. :)

We do. Technology evoles extremely fast. What is modern today is outdated tomorrow. Unlike literature where trends can last decades (and the format is the same today as it was generations ago).
 
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We do. Technology evoles extremely fast. What is modern today is outdated tomorrow. Unlike literature where trends can last decades (and the format is the same today as it was generations ago).

In terms of hardware, I agree.

I paid over $300 for my video card 2 years ago, and I'm probably getting a new one when nVidia releases their next generation in March.
 
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Kotor 2 as well. But that is irrelevant as I was replying to Alrik's claim that he hadnt seen it in other games besides BG (I expanded the quote to clarify). :)

EDIT: Thinking about it the list includes almost all party-based A-list RPGs since BG2. The only post-BG2 party based game I've played that suffered from limited banters was Drakensang, and even that game has SOME banter (somewhat comparable to Arcanum from what I can tell from playing through about half of it).
That Bioware quote is relevant, since BG1 what other party based game other than those directly linked to Bioware had developed companions banter?

A second point is dialogs triggered by the player cannot be considered as banter. At least I think dialogs with companions wasn't the point of OP about this. From this point of view, even many Bioware games reduced a lot the bantering in comparison to BG1 or at least in comparison with BG2. The only real exception I know is DAO. Sure Deekin is another exception but I don't remember NWN OC and other addon had significant banter, at least as much developed than in BG1. For NWN2 OC I also don't remember much, only few banter and the same for MoTB.

I don't see why limit the list to AAA CRPG, so since BG1 and from those I played:
  • Icewind Dale series: No companions, no banter.
  • Dungeon Siege I: I don't remember any banter, if there was some it was quite minimal I bet. Not as much developed than in BG1, from far.
  • Lionheart: Legacy of the Crusader: Your MC could recruit some companions. They had some banter but very minimal and to comment some places or events if I remember well. Not as much developed than in BG1.
  • The Temple of Elemental Evil: Only very very few banter, despite it's companions based joining a base party of characters created. It's true that the writing in this game isn't much developed so it's logical that the banter too isn't much developed. Not as much developed than in BG1, from far.
  • Dungeon Siege II: There's more banter than in DS1 but it's quite like Drakensang, it's more comments about some places and some comments related to events and quests. The system suffered a lot of interruption because of fights so in practice you lost all the pleasure from it. Not as much developed than in BG1, partially because of the interruption design bug.
  • Avernum 1 & 2: I don't remember some companions could join your party, arg I didn't played them since a long time but don't remember for sure. In any case not as much developed than in BG1, from far.
  • Avernum 5: I remember, you could bring one companion few times, but he got only few text events or banter like stuff. In any case not as much developed than in BG1, from far.
  • Avernum 6: I'm playing it and have play only a little part yet. I already noticed one companion you could get with you for one quest had a bit more banter or text event, trying picture a little his personality. Well it's still quite minimal in comparison with BG1 but I don't know yet until I have finished it.
  • Gothic 2+NOTR: That could not be party based but you have many opportunities to bring a companion with you, his banter is never much developed but there's few good one for some. Not as much developed than in BG1 but partially because the game isn't really party based.
  • Drakensang: It's quite more companions that directly interact with a quest or an event or comment a place, if I remember well. It's very cool but different and not that much developed. Not as much developed than in BG1 but not that far behind.

If you add to the picture all NWN1&2 series with only few banter, the global picture is a lot different than your quote seems let think.

The point is banter hasn't been much developed since BG1&2 and only Drakensang made a better effort and DAO did some progress with a significant bantering even more developed than in BG1 even if not as subtle and often too much joke based.

For a parallel quote, I don't like the direction that took Bioware by making deep companion dialogs you had to trigger yourself and that are challenge based. It's eventually a little better done in DAO but it's still not a good system I bet it drag many players, to somehow reload a bit too much because of this. And those dialogs don't have at all the same charm that banter can have or that can have dialogs initiated by companions.

EDIT: I think one important design flaw coming from companions dialogs you trigger by yourself is that this mechanism isn't well merged to the global gameplay flow. They are like side elements to the main game. This broke a lot their immersion to the game and then their effect on the player. The only point linking them a little bit to the gameplay flow is the player greed to get more from companions. It's hard to reinforce the game mood through such mechanism. Perhaps DAO succeed a little better because of a better quality, more diversity, but it's still a system flawed even in DAO.
 
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Actually, IIRC DA:O had little to no banter just wandering about. It was all triggered, either by events or by player starting it. BG1 is still the best game I've ever played in terms of having a group of characters that actually felt like they were more than just cardboard cutouts. Even DA:O, while I enjoyed it, did not really have the same level of characterization as BG1 and 2.
 
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Actually, IIRC DA:O had little to no banter just wandering about.

Really? Sorry, but you must have done something wrong or just missed it because my crew was constant chatting or bickering or *something* ...
 
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Really? Sorry, but you must have done something wrong or just missed it because my crew was constant chatting or bickering or *something* …
Yes there's a lot of chatting from companions, it's chats between them and only few times they made a comment on something, plus few dialogs initiated by themselves.

In quantity and per companions there's much more chatting in DAO than in BG1. A player playing without the sound could not notice it because it happens behind your MC.

The chats between companions are activated by some places like many bridges when you cross them. A random time delay trigger testing no enemy too close would work better but it was anyway a very nice feature of the game despite those chats was too much "very smart companions exchanging some jokes more or less acid" there's also many chats with a companion asking a question to another.

In BG1 the humor was not coming from smart companions doing nice jokes but from weird, strange or stupid companions funny because of that or because of some reactions. Also there's quite more feeling coming from BG1 chats than only smiles or laugh. And even if deeper and better wrote, the DAO chats are a little more basic than in BG1.
 
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Really? Sorry, but you must have done something wrong or just missed it because my crew was constant chatting or bickering or *something* …
Aye, it was the same for me. Wynn having a go at Alistair's dirty socks was brilliant :D
 
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In quantity and per companions there's much more chatting in DAO than in BG1. A player playing without the sound could not notice it because it happens behind your MC.

I also always have subtitles on, so I see the text floating over their heads as well as hearing through the headphones sitting on my esk ...
 
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Performance wise. I liked the game, but when a fight takes 3 hours, and it's because I see each frame of animation for about 15 seconds each, it becomes a chore. To be fair, most fights ran about 10-15 fps. Just a couple were horrendous.
 
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I also always have subtitles on, so I see the text floating over their heads as well as hearing through the headphones sitting on my esk …
Well I have too the subtitles but it's not enough because when this happen you walk forward and they are behind and you don't see the subtitles. You have to hear then stop and look back to enjoy.
 
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Performance wise. I liked the game, but when a fight takes 3 hours, and it's because I see each frame of animation for about 15 seconds each, it becomes a chore. To be fair, most fights ran about 10-15 fps. Just a couple were horrendous.

And you throw to flame of hell a game you didn't really played? Not fully honest from my point of view, but ok that's your choice to do so. I wonder how fast was running The Witcher on your computer. For my computer even Drakensang didn't run as well than DAO.
 
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And you throw to flame of hell a game you didn't really played? Not fully honest from my point of view, but ok that's your choice to do so. I wonder how fast was running The Witcher on your computer. For my computer even Drakensang didn't run as well than DAO.

It's not necessary to play DA for 40 hours to form an opinion on it. There's very little change from beginning to end.
 
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It's not necessary to play DA for 40 hours to form an opinion on it. There's very little change from beginning to end.
With fights that last 3 hours I wonder how you can have any good idea of the game. But well ok I don't care.
 
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