People, people… Could be a slippery slope.
Some people seem to think that Bioware was a reference when it came to deliver quality RPGs hence a specific attention dedicated to Bioware's moves and evolution.
Whether we like it or not, Bioware is a leader in the RPG genre. When they move, others will move as well.
I agree... If you want to make a shooter, because you think the dollars are there, make a Borderlands clone. I enjoyed Borderlands for what it was and never once felt like I was playing an RPG. They need to just take the RPG moniker off the game covers and advertise the games as Action>Adventure, ala Assassin's Creed. Because that's really what their games have become.BioWaste should just simply stop claiming they make RPGs.
No, and it's quite alright that you can't fathom my stance. I can' fathom yours. This is why I don't want to go through a vast debate - back and forth - about why I think they're really quite similar games. It's too much effort for too little gain.
Sometimes, I find that people are so "out of reach" in terms of meeting in the middle - that I don't have the energy required to try.
So, when people start out by saying that KotOR and ME are COMPLETELY different games - I just say: "Ehm, alright - let's drop it."
If you'd said something more reasonable like "They're similar, true, but with key differences." - then I might have debated why I would even contest that - though I do see some natural evolutionary changes - based on technology and the higher focus on cinematics over gameplay.
No, you were posting in an open thread - without indicating any kind of audience.
In any case, this isn't about liking ME3 or ME2. I liked ME2 as a shooter, but I didn't like the direction they took it.
This is about trusting Bioware to know what they're doing when they say "we're removing meaningless stats".
I agree… If you want to make a shooter, because you think the dollars are there, make a Borderlands clone. I enjoyed Borderlands for what it was and never once felt like I was playing an RPG. They need to just take the RPG moniker off the game covers and advertise the games as Action>Adventure, ala Assassin's Creed. Because that's really what their games have become.
I was not doing a listing of their similarities and differences, I was saying in general they are very different games… because they are. The main gameplay component in both games is combat, as it is in pretty much every RPG. That is what you will do the majority of the time. Combat in those two games is diametrically opposed… real-time skill-based shooting compared to traditional pause and play dice rolls.
Yes, they are both sci-fi games with similar dialogue setups in the traditional Bioware style. Only an idiot would argue otherwise. That does not mean they are the same though, to the main gameplay component being completely opposite.
I'm not sure what someone who disliked ME2 would have to gain from posting in this thread. I assumed people interested in ME3 were fans of ME2. For example why would I go post in a thread expressing concern about the future of Pokemon when I have never played Pokemon and have no interest in Pokemon? If someone is worried about the future of Mass Effect that tells me they enjoy Mass Effect.
In any case of course ME3 will be more shooter than RPG, just like ME2 was (and arguably ME1 was). This is not news and if you thought ME3 might be a CRPG then I question your sanity.
I agree… If you want to make a shooter, because you think the dollars are there, make a Borderlands clone. I enjoyed Borderlands for what it was and never once felt like I was playing an RPG. They need to just take the RPG moniker off the game covers and advertise the games as Action>Adventure, ala Assassin's Creed. Because that's really what their games have become.
That's not wrong but in what shooter you get living companions, bother equipping your vessel, is doing multiple quests and choose their order, get team fights with some tactical values (positioning, progressing path, and some more), need do few choices that seem important, and some more?
...
. It's time shooters came back to a deeper design.
It's like if Bioware is the messiah deciding the future of RPG.
I think this is hugely based on something which is absolutely irrelevant to modern businesspeople :
Reputation.
Bioware did build up a HUGE reputation - for delivering Baldur's Gate alone !
And for their following ganes, too !
That's why everyone looks kso much at Bioware, I assume.
Modern business people give a BEEEEEEP on reputation.
Sales are much, much, much, much, much more important to them.
You don't seem to understand that I have no interest in debating this with you. If you think stating things as fact will make them true - then by all means do do. I just don't agree.
Now, if you REALLY want me to make it clear why I think they're nearly identical in terms of gameplay structure and the overall experience - then I suppose I could. But I honestly don't look forward to hearing "yeah, sure, but all fantasy games have swords - so in a sci-fi game, all those similarities mean nothing."
You can't prove something on a public forum, unless the person you're debating with is nearer your position than yours seem to be to mine.
We'll just go in circles endlessly - defending our position. I have to assume you really mean what you're saying, but there's also the chance that you're just being stubborn like so many others. That's even less motivating.
You know?
I'm not sure why you're deliberately ignoring that I've said I liked ME2 fine for what it is.
Could you accept that here and now, please?
Beyond that, I don't limit myself to games that I'm a fan of - and I don't intend to ignore every bit of news posted that relates to such games. If I find the debate interesting - I'll join in.
I'm very interested in gaming as a hobby, and as such - the gaming industry and what's happening to it - is of GREAT interest to me.
That's why I like to speak my piece against current trends that I think are harmful to the experience. Just like I spoke against DA2 and what Bioware were doing with it, LONG before release. I clearly recall people saying much the same thing - that I should trust in Bioware and stay the hell out of such threads because I obviously didn't like their stuff.
The question is whether it's true what we've been hearing about Bioware introducing more CRPG elements in ME3. If that's true, then I might be more interested in ME3 than I thought.
However, when they come out and say things like "we'll remove meaningless stats" - I have to say my lack of faith is restored.
Is that really so hard to understand?
I just want to know how skill-based shooting combat can be the same as dice rolls, really. That is what makes the games so different for me. Explain to me how those become the same or near the same to you and I will shut up.
I don't have an issue with that. You said I wasn't speaking to ME2 fans because I posted on a public forum. My response is why would people who disliked ME2 care about ME3?
Yeah, same here in a lot of ways. I would not go into a discussion about a game series I don't like and worry about the future of it though. I have no interest in Nintendo games so while I might debate their place in the industry, their sales or why I dislike them I would not go into a debate about what would be best for the next Mario game.
I just mean you should trust the Mass Effect team to make a good Mass Effect game until we know more information. I don't mean go pre-order it, I mean don't jump to conclusions when the head of EA makes some BS statement to investors.
For the record they mean stats with no meaning, they do not mean removing stats because they are meaningless. There is a lot of twisting of that statement going around on RPG forums in order to justify bashing of Bioware.
Anyway, I don't think by more RPG elements they means hardcore CRPG stuff. I would expect it will be ME2 with some ME1 stuff added back in like maybe inventory or persuasion. We shall see though. Whether it is more RPG or not though I have faith it will be a great game.
I wouldn't be surprised if the next game by EAware is Farmville of Duty Effect. Since CoD numbers seem to be going down, guess they'll now try to make all their games like Farmville which is the new black
I didn't say the combat systems were identical, I said the games were VERY similar overall.
I just don't trust them to make a decision that will suit me, as they haven't been very good at that lately.
That's fine. I think the real issue here is I consider combat to be the central part of the game, so a significant difference in combat means the games are significantly different.
The Mass Effect team have been very good at it in my opinion, so I trust them for now. If you didn't like ME2 as much as ME1 then you're of course free to think otherwise.