Bethesda Softworks - Creation Club @ PC Gamer

[NewDArt]

Well you're putting words in my mouth: I never said "greed". The requirement to stay in the black is just a fact of business economics. That thinking pervades successful companies.

Once again, don't confuse monetizing mods with being necessary to stay in the black.

You're suggesting the two are connected, meaning you're saying they need to do it - or they won't stay in the black.

It's really simple.

 

[RPGFool]

… you're saying they need to do it - or they won't stay in the black.

It's really simple.

Actually NewDArt, it's you and only you who is saying that -- and putting words into the mouths of others -- again. Twisting the words of others isn't clever, and doesn't make you look clever, or intelligent, or credible for that matter.

At any rate Bethesda and paid mods is somewhat complicated and might or might not backfire on Bethesda, depending of the specifics of how Bethesda handles it. Simply put paid mods might enhance or might harm Bethesda's profitability in the short term or long term.

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[Aerth]

While I do agree with most of you, it would be interesting to see how many people actually mod their games. The people on this forum hardly represent the average gamer. My guess is that a really small percentage of the buyers use mods, so to say Bethesda is dependant on the mod community is hardly accurate?

If this means more people will start to use mods, AND the mod developers will actually get paid for their hard work, then that's a good thing. Nothing wrong with Bethesda also making more money from it as long as the modders get most of it. I have my doubts that's how it's going to work though.

How many people? I do not know, but just on Nexus, Skyrim accounts for 1165 millions mod downloads.
SkyUI who gives you a more PC oriented GUI instead of the native console one is over 15 millions of unique downloads.
Skyrim HD which replaces the assets and the visuals with something truly AAA looking is over 2 746 000 unique downloads.
If you add the different unofficial bugfixing mods (Legends, Dragonborn and so on ..)which allows you to finish some quests, some unfinished dialogs with NPC and thousand of little things you go over 20.000.000 unique downloads.

And that is Nexus only and 6 of the 51.000 different mods existing in Nexus. Now you can compute the Steam Workshop too..

 

[NewDArt]

Actually NewDArt, it's you and only you who is saying that -- and putting words into the mouths of others -- again. Twisting the words of others isn't clever, and doesn't make you look clever, or intelligent, or credible for that matter.

At any rate Bethesda and paid mods is somewhat complicated and might or might not backfire on Bethesda, depending of the specifics of how Bethesda handles it. Simply put paid mods might enhance or might harm Bethesda's profitability in the short term or long term.

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Why would I look clever by pointing put logical missteps?

Some of you guys really need to start learning what words mean and be a little accountable. That would suit you

 

[zahratustra]

Nobody, or not many, buy games because of mods but majority of players still play Skyrim because of mods. So, while it might not keep Beth afloat, it certainly helps them stay afloat.

 

[rjshae]

Nobody, or not many, buy games because of mods but majority of players still play Skyrim because of mods. So, while it might not keep Beth afloat, it certainly helps them stay afloat.

If Bethesda went bankrupt, I suspect that people would still keep playing Skyrim. The two aren't necessarily connected. People still play Black Isle Studio's creations.

 

[NewDArt]

They could also start selling T-shirts for 1000$ each and that would help them stay afloat too, because there would always be a few buyers. Doesn't make it necessary or tasteful.

Skyrim sold more than 20 million copies. To suggest that they depend on mod monetization to stay afloat is absolutely ludicrous.

 

[RPGFool]

Nobody, or not many, buy games because of mods but majority of players still play Skyrim because of mods. So, while it might not keep Beth afloat, it certainly helps them stay afloat.

Yes. The mods (and availability of modding engine) keeps game relevant and can keep sales going for years. This has made a huge amount of money for Bethesda.

If Bethesda implements paid mods in a bad way they have a reasonable chance to turn mods into burdensome dlc with the potential of front-loaded harming of future game sales compounded by a decrease in long term game sales of future games.

The whole paid mods issue tends to engender strong emotions that pose a very real danger for Bethesda. IMO.

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[TomRon]

Nobody, or not many, buy games because of mods but majority of players still play Skyrim because of mods. So, while it might not keep Beth afloat, it certainly helps them stay afloat.

I can believe the majority of the people who still play Skyrim does so because of mods. I do doubt however that most of the people who've bought Skyrim did so with the intention to use mods? I played through vanilla on release and haven't picked it up again since then. I'm guessing alot of people did the same?

Just guessing mind, I don't have the numbers to back my claims. And the numbers regarding mod downloads Aerth mentioned are certainly impressive. What I would like to know is the percentage of Skyrim owners across all platforms that use mods.

 

[NewDArt]

I can believe the majority of the people who still play Skyrim does so because of mods. I do doubt however that most of the people who've bought Skyrim did so with the intention to use mods? I played through vanilla on release and haven't picked it up again since then. I'm guessing alot of people did the same?

Just guessing mind, I don't have the numbers to back my claims. And the numbers regarding mod downloads Aerth mentioned are certainly impressive. What I would like to know is the percentage of Skyrim owners across all platforms that use mods.

There's no way to know, but I suspect that a LOT of Skyrim players never used a mod in their life - or only lightly dabbled with them.

People tend to forget that consoles dominate in this area - and it was only recently console gamers got the chance to even use them.

If you go to howlongtobeat.com - you can see MANY console gamers who played Skyrim and other TES games for many hundreds of hours - which would be without mods.

Yes, people are STILL playing Skyrim on consoles without mods.

There's a monumental difference between consoles and PCs when it comes to mods and modding traditions.

Once again, the Watch excels at forgetting they don't represent the norm. Modding is NOT a common mainstream activity, especially not on consoles. It's something for the "advanced user" in most cases.

My own personal best-guess would be that around 60% of TES fans (Morrowind -> Skyrim) never used a mod, or only used very few.

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As for rjshare using this:

They're a business, not a non-profit organization, and they need to make a profit so they can stay in business and make more games.

As an argument to support mod monetization - is, logically, the same as saying they need to monetize mods because they need to make a profit.

Conclusively, they need to monetize mods.

Which is of course a fallacy - which I'm trying to point out, and - as such - the argument is irrational.

 

[RPGFool]

I can believe the majority of the people who still play Skyrim does so because of mods. I do doubt however that most of the people who've bought Skyrim did so with the intention to use mods? I played through vanilla on release and haven't picked it up again since then. I'm guessing alot of people did the same?

Just guessing mind, I don't have the numbers to back my claims. And the numbers regarding mod downloads Aerth mentioned are certainly impressive. What I would like to know is the percentage of Skyrim owners across all platforms that use mods.

I basically agree with what you are saying.

But what I think happens is that the mods and making of mods, enhances game use and continued interest for existing owners of the game over the long term. In turn this enhances the amount of, and growth rate of, "word of mouth" game promotion (on line and in person) -- leading to new game sales -- leading to even more "word of mouth" effect (if game was good to begin with) -- and the growth curve continues… IMO.

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[joxer]

Once again, the Watch excels at forgetting they don't represent the norm. Modding is NOT a common mainstream activity, especially not on consoles. It's something for the "advanced user" in most cases.

Yes, watch are advanced users.
And that means what in this thread. That we shouldn't spit on certain cancerous business practices and attempts on new ones?

 

[Aerth]

I basically agree with what you are saying.

But what I think happens is that the mods and making of mods, enhances game use and continued interest for existing owners of the game over the long term. In turn this enhances the amount of, and growth rate of, "word of mouth" game promotion (on line and in person) -- leading to new game sales -- leading to even more "word of mouth" effect (if game was good to begin with) -- and the growth curve continues… IMO.

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Indeed, that you can see with the sales of the game. From 2011 to June 2013, date of the last extension they did, they announced 23.000.000 of copies sold and a whooping USD$1390 millions over the 3 years.
They announced, 3 years after the last extension, in November 2016, to have sold over 30.000.000 copies.

The game was done by a team of 90 people for a USD$85 millions budget.

 

[Aerth]

Yes, watch are advanced users.
And that means what in this thread. That we shouldn't spit on certain cancerous business practices and attempts on new ones?

Mods have been actively promoted on multiple blogs, magazines, reviews, whatever with easy how to.
Nexusmod offers a client to download and install/uninstall your mods easily.
Steam does too.

Console PS4 and XBOX offer the possibility to mod Skyrim easily.

You actively do not want to mod your game, or want to play without mod which is totally respectable or you can easily mod it. No advanced user. Easy.

As I said before Skyrim is a Mod. And it loads its own files like all the other mods. the extensions, DragonBorn, Hearth and so on are also loaded like mods. Nothing different actually.

 

[RPGFool]

Yes, watch are advanced users.
And that means what in this thread. That we shouldn't spit on certain cancerous business practices and attempts on new ones?

Yes. Your views illustrate IMO the harm that Bethesda risks doing to Bethesda via the paid mods.

Essentially the benefit of Bethesda's mod engine and free mods stems IMO from good will that Bethesda has generated. Players who liked the game use mods as a reason to keep playing -- without mods they would get bored and quit playing. Their continued interest over the long term generates "word of mouth" game promotion that also extends over the long term.

If Bethesda pisses off enough gamers, Bethesda risks killing off the "good will" by painting themselves as an excessively greedy company using "cancerous business practices". In turn the positive "word of mouth" dries up, and the "goose that laid the golden egg" stands a good chance of becoming another stinking carcass… IMO

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[TomRon]

Yes, watch are advanced users.
And that means what in this thread. That we shouldn't spit on certain cancerous business practices and attempts on new ones?

Of course not. I think we all agree this endeavour is doubtful. I do however believe in using factual argumentation, and to me "Bethesda wouldn't be successful without mods" simply doesn't compute. "Bethesda would be less successful without mods", THAT I can agree with. We're pretty much discussing the argumentation, not the actual topic.

On topic:
Paid mods is not a bad thing if it means modders get paid. Paid mods is an awful idea if it just means more money in EA's pocket and less (and lower quality) mods to choose from.

 

[TomRon]

I pretty much agree with all the latest posts about keeping the game alive and driving sales through mods, that at least sounds very probable.

 

[BoboTheMighty]

@Aerth, IMO, you're filling ignorelist for the wrong reason here. Not saying you got the wrong person.

Eh, how do you go about putting someone on ignore? Can't see anything on profile section.
Also posting visitor messages.
Other than that, greedy scum Bethesda, of course, of course.

 

[Aerth]

You go to the NewDart profile, or any other, but this one works fine, you click on the User lists menu, and that is the last option.
It took me time to found it but I do not regret it, it improved my experience.

 

[BoboTheMighty]

Aha. Many of you are about to get ignored.