Bethesda Softworks - Creation Club @ PC Gamer

I pretty much agree with all the latest posts about keeping the game alive and driving sales through mods, that at least sounds very probable.

The mods did not do the initial success of the game, it sold mightily and very fast without them. They probably helped him to endure and making it relevant and fun even 6 years after the launch, and 3 years after the last extension.

Just a quick search on PC gamer (I do not read it that is why I took it as an example) would show you at least 2 or 3 best mod of Skyrim article every year .. Last ones were in May and February 2017 ..
 
@rshae He is right, you know.

"they need to make a profit so they can stay in business" is pure, undiluted BS. As if Bethesda is hinging on Creation Club for survival, hahahah. That's some pathetic excuse. They are constantly making profit and own a dozen of franchises.

Capitalism.... you gotta love it and at the same time hate it. I know i do.
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
1,762
Location
The Netherlands
You go to the NewDart profile, or any other, but this one works fine, you click on the User lists menu, and that is the last option.
It took me time to found it but I do not regret it, it improved my experience.

The only person I've ever put on ignore is Chien, but I removed it because for some stupud reason I enjoy tormenting myself with his posts so I kept clicking "show post" anyway. No other poster has ever come close to my ignore list.
 
Joined
Dec 20, 2010
Messages
3,216
Location
Sweden
The reason I advocate putting me on ignore, is so that the rest of the Watch doesn't have to bother with emotionally fueled bile - like RPGFool in this thread who's still carrying his precious grudge. Some people get personal real quick when their bullshit is pointed out - and it takes them forever to get over it.

It's juvenile, tiresome and creates a ton of noise - and I don't always succeed in not responding to it - which is why I've also begun putting a few more people on ignore than I'd like to.

But, really, it saves time and effort for all involved.

That said, the ignore function isn't very good here - or in most places. Facebook does it really well, actually, because you will NEVER see anything from that person anywhere - not in replies or elsewhere.

You can always take people off ignore again after a while, because most people actually come around if you had a point in the first place. Of course, if you really are an ass - they will likely not stay pleasant.

Not all can learn about their own flaws, though, and that means they really should stay on ignore anyway :)
 
Capitalism…. you gotta love it and at the same time hate it. I know i do.

Well, I don't hate capitalism. I hate the weakness of human beings that can't handle such a system in the way it was originally intended.

Which is why we either get rid of it - or change our nature. I believe the former is more plausible.
 
Well, I don't hate capitalism. I hate the weakness of human beings that can't handle such a system in the way it was originally intended.
Some people say exactly the same about communism. That system was good but people were unable to handle it... It's like saying "sir, this is a terrific suit. You are just of a wrong shape"...
 
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
4,721
@zahratustra

I'm sufficiently sober not to do double posts.

Seriously, my no mods Skyrim has no backwards-flying dragons (even if, as I previously acknowledged, that might have happened with unpatched day 1 version of game). Day 1 games have numerous problems across numerous companies and releases -- nothing new or unique to Bethesda in that.

__

For more info on the backwards flying dragons, according to UESP this issue wasn't actually in the unpatched day 1 version.

The 'Dragons occasionally flying backwards' issue was a bug introduced by patch 1.2 on 30/11/11.

Then patch 1.3.7 fixed the bug on 7/12/11.

So the backwards flying dragons thing did happen, but only for a week if you kept the game updated. (If you were on Xbox 360 or PS3 the issue lasted 2 weeks)
 
Joined
May 28, 2007
Messages
46
Suuuure, the modders did all the work here. Bethsoft didn't develop the engine work, assets, systems, animations, sound, music and so on ;)

Yeah, that's right!

Amazing the fantasies people can create to justify their irrational stand on Bethesda.

Yes, some mods are cool and represent good work. But 99% of all modded Skyrims consist of 1% of modders work.

Let's be real.

You have a good point but you also have to realise the fact that community modding is a huge positive for current ES games and charging money or restricting access to full modding capabilities will have negative impact.

As Aerth pointed out, there is no way I will play vanilla Morrowind or Skyrim - it's bland and just not good enough to get me engaged. To think I will have to pay for the game itself PLUS mods = no purchase. It's like trying to think of NWN1 without modding tools/player made campaigns. NOT WORTH IT. Unless of course, Bethesda can finally make something decent without needing to heavily mod the game.
 
I actually think Steam's system would have been better. Paying a dozen or two modders to make content is alright, but it's not enough. And I don't understand why they would charge for that specific content. I guess since it's heavily curated and they are working directly with developers, but that's a lackluster solution to me.

The thing is, this is Bethesda's attempt to start to monetize mods yet not get the backlash that Steam paid mods received. Yet Steam's system would have been better, IMO. With Steam's system and some curation in place, all modders could be selling content and making money, not just a dozen or two. Beth's system just seems like a glorified hiring of a few extra people to their team.

Modders will get paid as actual content creators, which is good, but it doesn't sound like it will be inclusive enough. Paid mods for all modders would open the door to a huge amount of possibilities there. SureAI, for example, the greatest mod team ever, would be paid for their work, allowing them to work on it more, support it more in the long run and devote more time overall to modding. I believe that in a monetized system they could also be a blueprint for other "mod upstart" devs who want to break into the industry and also run their business, which will in this case be modding games. We could see actual modding "studios" start up and do some amazing things.

But if Beth just wants to hire a few good modders with a very heavily curated system, it's nothing more than a glorified hiring of a few more people to their team. Which is not very exciting.

P.S. I just finished Gothic 2 with Andre Taulien's D3D11 renderer mod. If you don't know, it basically brings Gothic 2 up to modern standards with DirectX11. It adds HBAO, SMAA, high resolution and widescreen support (4K) and more to Gothic 2. The game looks great with it, plays nicely on modern systems and is a great mod overall. However, Andre stopped working on it. He has a real job and real life things to take care of, and unfortunately for us, the mod isn't perfect and still could use some work. It's open-source now, but that doesn't really solve the issue much in the short term. So imagine if this man could get paid from this mod. We'd have a better product most likely since he could devote more time to it. Could lead to some great things long term, too, like modding ancient RPGs becoming a profitable venture, not just something a bunch of people do as a hobby in their spare time. Could be cool, IMO.
 
You have a good point but you also have to realise the fact that community modding is a huge positive for current ES games and charging money or restricting access to full modding capabilities will have negative impact.

What makes you think I don't realise that?

As Aerth pointed out, there is no way I will play vanilla Morrowind or Skyrim - it's bland and just not good enough to get me engaged. To think I will have to pay for the game itself PLUS mods = no purchase. It's like trying to think of NWN1 without modding tools/player made campaigns. NOT WORTH IT. Unless of course, Bethesda can finally make something decent without needing to heavily mod the game.

That changes exactly nothing about how much work any Skyrim experience is due to Bethsoft versus modders.

That's all I'm saying.

I know some people have a really hard time enjoying the content of these games unless a few mods are applied.

That's fair enough - but what you're enjoying is STILL 99% the work of Bethsoft - not any modder.

Also, I have to say that completely nullifying the quality of Morrowind and Skyrim from the outset - and claiming mods will magically make the content delivered by Bethsoft super attractive smacks of exaggeration and pre-disposed nonsense.

Sure, these games suffer from a variety of balance and mechanics issues - but the core experience is much the same no matter how many mods you apply.

So, I'd say it's more about a psychological barrier that some anti-Bethsoft gamers need to cross to have an open mind when experiencing the game. If mods are enough to make them suddenly enjoy the same content that was always there - then whatever floats your boat.

Personally, I've greatly enjoyed the vanilla experience of all TES games. Even Oblivion, until the level scaling issue became obvious.

That was particularly glaring - but it was easily fixed.

I would never - EVER - pretend that changing the enemy levels from dynamic and scaled to static represents more work than developing the entirety of the rest of the game. That's just laughably ignorant - and that was my original point.

Yes, level scaling was blatantly bad in Oblivion - but it was just one issue and I greatly enjoyed the game for an entire week before it became an issue.

Then someone spent a few hours editing the spawn tables and released a mod.

Cool - and that was great work.

But let's not discount the entire game for that reason, ok? :)

Personally, I think these games NEED scaling of some kind. They just went a little overboard and didn't think it through with Oblivion.

For some reason, that has stuck with a lot of people - and they don't even entertain the notion of how scaling might actually not be the wrong answer. It's potentially more about how scaling is done.

A lot of favorites around the Watch have scaling - it's just that people don't always notice it.
 
Last edited:
For more info on the backwards flying dragons, according to UESP this issue wasn't actually in the unpatched day 1 version.

The 'Dragons occasionally flying backwards' issue was a bug introduced by patch 1.2 on 30/11/11.

Then patch 1.3.7 fixed the bug on 7/12/11.

So the backwards flying dragons thing did happen, but only for a week if you kept the game updated. (If you were on Xbox 360 or PS3 the issue lasted 2 weeks)

Man, we often use backward flying dragon as a bug example as it's the most known thing everyone spotted - if they played the game at the time. For all other issues anyone can say "that didn't happen in my game", in fact it did but people for some reason choose to ignore seeing those things and pretend everything is just fine.

It would be a life's work to number all things left broken in the game, but I've repeatably mentioned on this forum main quest being broken which was never officially patched. This bug is a gamestopper and you can't progress with the main questline if it occurs in your playthrough. The issue is described here:
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:A_Cornered_Rat

They edited the site and removed old "fix", but at the time when I played the game, the only known fix was unpacking a certain file. This was written on UESP back then:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/72850/discussions/0/490125737480231961/#c490125737480360374

The point is, after Bethesda didn't care about polishing at least the major plot, hundreds of other bugs left unfixed is not a surprise. That same Bethesda now has a masterplan to charge you for 3rd party's work, a thing Bethesda was supposed to do instead of orphaning Skyrim for sakes of ESO, I mean just look at the size of that log:
https://afkmods.iguanadons.net/Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch Version History.html
 
Last edited:
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
23,459
I have yet to see a backwards flying dragon of any kind. And some of those bugs they purposely left in, like the mammoths that fall from the sky (which I did see.) I also had the guy outside Whiterun who kept cloning himself, with his original version stuck in the ground. That was fun. But otherwise I didn't have any bugs that I noticed. The only "major" minor bug I had was a quest item didn't spawn for the Bard's College quest. Restarted the game, loaded and it was there. That's literally it.
 
Consider yourself lucky.
In my case, playing Skyrim felt like betatesting a game without necessity to try to force a bug: there were plenty to notice without player's interaction. I did not use any 3rd party's unofficial patches, only two mods I applied were SkyUI and norespawn.
Prior to adding norespawn I had one other issue - on every mage's guild visit the game would spawn a dragon. I was like level 10 and already had hundreds of dragon bones, basically I was filthy rich thanks to that crap. The mod fixed it.

Note that I'm talking about the game itself. DLC Dragonborn was surprisingly polished on it's release - it did have a glitch here and there which is normal on release, but wasn't a broken mess.

As for bugged dragons, just search on youtube. Here's one:
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2009
Messages
23,459
Hahaha! That's hilarious. :D

And I'm talking base game as well. I played back when it first came out, even before any patches.
 
Back
Top Bottom