Grimoire

[NewDArt]

I've heard a lot of things about Grimoire and most of them are nonsense. Go onto the community page on steam and take a look at the guides. In particular, the world maps that Felipepepe has published. Then tell us that there are only 100 hours of gameplay there!? And that (the world map not the act 1 map) represents only about 60% of the game, because that is about as far as anyone has managed to get since launch. Most of us have hardly scratched the surface.

It's not like you seem to be hearing things selectively or anything

 

[Deleted User]

I feel like I've been through this before, but…

There is no promised 600 hours. The problem is you either misread or misinterpreted what he said. He said it was possible to spend 600 hours on it not that it takes 600 hours to finish. Even though he's probably exaggerating a great deal, that's still not the same thing as claiming it takes 600 hours to finish.

And your comparisons are meaningless. Any game can be stretched out if that's what the player wants. The Elder Scrolls games can be finished in 30-40 hours, or much less, if the player chooses.

I'm well aware the game doesn't take 600 hours to finish. No RPG does, I'm not stupid.

I'm asking WHERE IS THE 600 HOURS for those who want to do that. Is there post-game, extra/optional content? Is there some mega dungeon you can explore for hours and hours? Where is the 600 hours that is claimed on the Steam page.

200K copies

Actually, in one presentation the number was over 300k. Not sure if that includes non-Steam sales or what.

 

[NewDArt]

Any game can be stretched out if that's what the player wants. The Elder Scrolls games can be finished in 30-40 hours, or much less, if the player chooses.

TES games actually have content to fill out hundreds of hours - which won't be stretching it out if you enjoy that content.

The question is whether Grimoire actually has that kind of distinct content - or if the 600 hours is mostly wading around very samey maps with the same assets being re-used over and over again.

I suspect it DOES have a lot of reasonably distinct content (as in, a lot of unique puzzles and mostly text-based stuff to find) - though it's obviously not going to be of the same visual variety and fidelity as a TES game.

 

[NewDArt]

Actually, in one presentation the number was over 300k. Not sure if that includes non-Steam sales or what.

I have no idea - but no matter the number, it's pretty meaningless if we don't know more than amount of copies sold.

Again, the price has been as low as 2$ on multiple occasions.

 

[Deleted User]

TES games actually have content to fill out hundreds of hours - which won't be stretching it out if you actually enjoy that content.

The question is whether Grimoire actually has that kind of distinct content - or if the 600 hours is mostly wading around very samey maps with the same assets being re-used over and over again.

Exactly.

And TES/Kingdoms of Amalur/other RPGs have also stated their "normal" playthroughs can have 300 hours of content. Of course you can stretch it, etc., but those games still have tons of content.

I'm curious where/what the content is in Grimoire that would give a 600 hour mark. Especially considering Cleve himself has stated some of the later areas in the game are "sparsely populated" and that he'd be "filling them out more" in the future.

 

[Deleted User]

I have no idea - but no matter the number, it's pretty meaningless if we don't know more than amount of copies sold.

Again, the price has been as low as 2$ on multiple occasions.

In one of the presentations he gives that info. He talks about when to bundle, and how much he collects from things like Humble Bundle and the like.

 

[NewDArt]

In one of the presentations he gives that info. He talks about when to bundle, and how much he collects from things like Humble Bundle and the like.

I guess that would be interesting to hear if I actually cared about what he had to say

I like to focus on developers that interest me for that kind of thing.

 

[Deleted User]

Sure, but I think 20+ years of survival had to give him some insights, eh?

I watched a couple presentations of his and they were interesting just for an insider type of perspective. Not to be taken as law.

 

[NewDArt]

Sure, but I think 20+ years of survival had to give him some insights, eh?

I watched a couple presentations of his and they were interesting just for an insider type of perspective. Not to be taken as law.

Yes, it has given him insights into how to survive doing what he does - which is of zero interest to me - as I don't care for what he does.

To be quite frank, I don't really think Vogel is a particularly smart or talented person.

But that's just me.

I think what Cleve has done with Grimoire seems a lot more impressive and much bolder.

Well, it would have been if he'd actually finished the game 20 years ago instead of procrastinating for so long.

 

[Deleted User]

Now I know you've lost your mind. Sheesh. Agree to disagree man.

 

[NewDArt]

Now I know you've lost your mind. Sheesh. Agree to disagree man.

Certainly

 

[Roq]

It's not like you seem to be hearing things selectively or anything

No, I'm not. I've never claimed that Grimoire is a perfect game. But it's size and complexity are undeniable. Wizardry 6&7 would fit into a corner of the map and leave space for might & magic and Eye of the Beholder 1&2. And that makes it a very different type of game to the ones you were trying to compare it with. I've no real idea why Cleve did this, but it clearly isn't about cashing in the first week on steam, something you don't appear to recognize.

 

[JDR13]

TES games actually have content to fill out hundreds of hours - which won't be stretching it out if you enjoy that content.

The question is whether Grimoire actually has that kind of distinct content - or if the 600 hours is mostly wading around very samey maps with the same assets being re-used over and over again.

I suspect it DOES have a lot of reasonably distinct content (as in, a lot of unique puzzles and mostly text-based stuff to find) - though it's obviously not going to be of the same visual variety and fidelity as a TES game.

What I mean is that players can obviously choose to play much longer than they need to. There's no question that TES has the content to support it.

I don't personally think TES has a great deal of visual variety, but it has more than Grimoire at least from what I've seen. In terms of fidelity though, yeah.. that's like comparing a Volkswagen to a Ferrari.

 

[JDR13]

I'm asking WHERE IS THE 600 HOURS for those who want to do that. Is there post-game, extra/optional content? Is there some mega dungeon you can explore for hours and hours? Where is the 600 hours that is claimed on the Steam page.

Why don't you try actually playing the game and finding out for yourself? You seem awful concerned about it.

 

[Lucky Day]

The first person to finish all the way through said he took 80+ hours to complete it with the original overpowered bard and random encounters turned off (they are off by default). He said he only missed two areas.

The bard, as has been well documented, has been nerfed and he estimates it would take over 100 hours in the state its in now.

 

[Roq]

What I mean is that players can obviously choose to play much longer than they need to. There's no question that TES has the content to support it.

I don't personally think TES has a great deal of visual variety, but it definitely has more than Grimoire at least from what I've seen. In terms of fidelity though, yeah.. that's like comparing a Volkswagen to a Ferrari.

Have played Skyrim a lot... with STEP and other mods. I wouldn't want to play the base game on a single run for hundreds of hours though, not least because characters become massively overpowered as they increase in level. Noone, as yet appears to be able to make an open world game that doesn't have this problem. Got bored with Witcher 3 eventually for exactly the same reason. Can't say what will happen in Grimoire in that respect... but will be surprised if it manages to maintain the tension over such a long game.

 

[Ripper]

It's just a hunch, but my guess is that his pricing has been a bad move. I think there is a price level that is somewhat disposable, where the somewhat curious RPG fan with an average income is more likely to take a punt. I think you'd see a lot more of the regulars talking about it here if it had been at that lower price point.

My guess is that he would probably have hit higher returns at around half the price. Of course, I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see him slash the price despite his claims, and try and get the best of both worlds, having rinsed the Faith Militant for $35 a head.

 

[Roq]

The first person to finish all the way through said he took 80+ hours to complete it with the original overpowered bard and random encounters turned off (they are off by default). He said he only missed two areas.

The bard, as has been well documented, has been nerfed and he estimates it would take over 100 hours in the state its in now.

The first person to get to highest level in guild wars 2, took about a day. OTOH, it took me and many others a month or so to get there and had sufficient content for that to be interesting. So all these reports of speed runs are fine, but they don't really indicate the amount of content that is there.

I'm glad the bard got nerfed, hopefully recruitable NPCs get nerfed too. I actually restarted, as I wasn't happy with having one in my party.

 

[Roq]

It's just a hunch, but my guess is that his pricing has been a bad move. I think there is a price level that is somewhat disposable, where the somewhat curious RPG fan with an average income is more likely to take a punt. I think you'd see a lot more of the regulars talking about it here if it had been at that lower price point.

My guess is that he would probably have hit higher returns at around half the price. Of course, I wouldn't be entirely surprised to see him slash the price despite his claims, and try and get the best of both worlds, having rinsed the Faith Militant for $35 a head.

Unlikely. If he wanted to launch a stream of games and milk them for all they were worth that is what he would have done. But Grimoire is not that kind of game. Besides, it aint over until the fat lady sings and she hasn't sung yet. If Grimoire is as consistently interesting as it is at the start (don't know yet), then the game will generate a steady stream of sales based on word of mouth.

 

[Ripper]

Unlikely. If he wanted to launch a stream of games and milk them for all they were worth that is what he would have done. But Grimoire is not that kind of game. Besides, it aint over until the fat lady sings and she hasn't sung yet. If Grimoire is as consistently interesting as it is at the start (don't know yet), then the game will generate a steady stream of sales based on word of mouth.

That assumes a consistent motive over a long period of time, though. It certainly appeared to me, for a long time, that he was absolutely enjoying trolling people with it. Or, perhaps, I misread him and he was always dedicated to his masterwork. In either case, it's possible, and I wonder if even likely, that circumstances changed, and he now has a stronger motive to raise some quick cash by releasing what he has, and fixing it as he goes along.