Witcher 3 - Play as Triss, Yennefer, or Others

[Aubrielle]

I don't think neutral language is desirable. I like the differences between people of different gender/culture etc or just difference in general. Difference should be celebrated not avoided in language or otherwise for fear of upsetting people who are different in other ways. Its like the whole controversy over Christmas in some places. I wouldn't take down christmas decorations for fear of upsetting Muslims, in fact many different cultures want to learn about other cultural traditions. Bottom line, never apologise for who you are because if that offends someone then that is that persons problem.

So in one breath, you say people should be celebrated and not avoided…then in another you say that we shouldn't acknowledge people who aren't comfortable with gender norms?

I'm not attacking you…but maybe you might want to rethink your argument a bit in favor of consistency? (meant in the nicest possible way)

Yes, we need more diversity to satisfy some of the minority in RPG market. I hope it will happen one day, a story driven RPG with a female protagonist in mind

The thing is…we're not a minority, sweetie. We are a decided majority, according to the ESA.

http://www.dailydot.com/geek/adult-women-largest-gaming-demographic/?fb=ss&nrs=nerdsraging

 

[CelticFrost]

Moving thread over to: Politics, Religion & other Controversies

 

[Morrandir]

You just did tell us how to play a game. Would you mind if I totally ignore your opinion that the way I want to play the game doesn't make sense to you?

Hum… I just said that it doesn't make sense to me. If you've understood my comment in another way, then sorry! it seems I should express myself more clearly the next time.

There are people with good enough imagination, you know.

Yup, think I've met some in my PnP groups. Actually I even think I'm one of them.

You can easily pretend the voice is female, the name is not Geralt, etc, and you'll be totally immersed into a game as a different character. The story will make perfect sense, too, you can correct it as you go along.

Sure you can do all this. I myself have problems when these pretenses explicitely contradict the dungeon master or narrator (or whatever we call it).

 

[Morrandir]

The fact is, to fully enjoy a real RPG, you have to be able to identify as the character you're playing as.

I wouldn't sign this in general.
I myself can fully (for whatever that means) enjoy an RPG if the protagonist is a believable character in the game world. So instead of having to identify as the character I'm playing as I'd rather say that I have to immerse into the character I'm playing with.

I've played Baldur's Gate with a female main character, I've played on "hardcore" RPG persistent worlds and in PnP with non-human, female, good or evil characters. And I've fully enjoyed that. And I've really enjoyed playing Ciri in TW3.

To be honest my first choice indeed is a male human (or half-elf) protagonist as immersion is more easy for me. In rare occasions of additional playthroughs I often select other races and or a female protagonist.

Long story short, I don't think the need for identification is a general fact.

 

[Morrandir]

The thing is…we're not a minority, sweetie. We are a decided majority, according to the ESA.

http://www.dailydot.com/geek/adult-women-largest-gaming-demographic/?fb=ss&nrs=nerdsraging

Interesting, didn't know that.

If this is true and if female gamers want more female main protagonists I really wonder why the suits just don't decide to develop these games.
From a mercantile view, whoever comes up with a AAA open world RPG with a plot tailored to a female protagonist will swim in gold.

 

[Aubrielle]

Long story short, I don't think the need for identification is a general fact.

Conceded.

But a lot of people on this forum - men as well as women - have defended the idea to the hilt, so the need for identification is really passionate, personal, and widespread, if nothing else.

Interesting, didn't know that.

If this is true and if female gamers want more female main protagonists I really wonder why the suits just don't decide to develop these games.
From a mercantile view, whoever comes up with a AAA open world (A)RPG with a plot tailored to a female protagonist will swim in gold.

I would just chalk it up to reactionary devs that simply don't want to. The devs for Assassin's Creed: Unity simply didn't want to, and their excuse was female animations (which they never really bothered with before). An animation designer for AC3 said it would take them a few hours' work to put in female animations, but the team rejected it. Then, you have games like GTA 5, which…well…

"Our creative vision was a simulation of masculinity."

*snort*

 

[CelticFrost]

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?fo...gaming-demographic/?fb=ss&nrs=nerdsraging


I would like to know what games they are talking about. If they included phone games well ....

 

[Morrandir]

Conceded.

But a lot of people on this forum - men as well as women - have defended the idea to the hilt, so the need for identification is really passionate, personal, and widespread, if nothing else.

We're the silent majority.

I would just chalk it up to reactionary devs that simply don't want to. The devs for Assassin's Creed: Unity simply didn't want to, and their excuse was female animations (which they never really bothered with before). An animation designer for AC3 said it would take them a few hours' work to put in female animations, but the team rejected it. Then, you have games like GTA 5, which…well…

"Our creative vision was a simulation of masculinity."

*snort*

If I know anything about business then it's that rather sooner than later greed will win over these lame excuses.

 

[Aubrielle]

http://api.viglink.com/api/click?fo...gaming-demographic/?fb=ss&nrs=nerdsraging

I would like to know what games they are talking about. If they included phone games well ….

I'm pretty sure the article specifically points out that phone games aren't included.

That's one old argument that always makes me LOL.

 

[Silver]

So in one breath, you say people should be celebrated and not avoided…then in another you say that we shouldn't acknowledge people who aren't comfortable with gender norms?

I'm not attacking you…but maybe you might want to rethink your argument a bit in favor of consistency? (meant in the nicest possible way)



The thing is…we're not a minority, sweetie. We are a decided majority, according to the ESA.

http://www.dailydot.com/geek/adult-women-largest-gaming-demographic/?fb=ss&nrs=nerdsraging

Tolerance means being tolerant of differences regardless of which 'side' your on. I don't privilege minority or majority opinions.

Gender norms are a fact of life (as in you are what you are) and something people should accept and not complain about. I would not expect people to apologise for being male/female/other in other words. I'm thinking your taking gender norms to mean something different?

 

[Aubrielle]

Tolerance means being tolerant of differences regardless of which 'side' your on. I don't privilege minority or majority opinions.

Gender norms are a fact of life (as in you are what you are) and something people should accept and not complain about. I would not expect people to apologise for being male/female/other in other words. I'm thinking your taking gender norms to mean something different?

I have soooo many friends who are really really uncomfortable with traditional male or female definitions, since, in our society, they're so polarized. "Men are strong and macho. Women are baby factories." (those are stereotypes, btw) A lot of people have always felt like they fell somewhere in the middle, and they want to be acknowledged as in the middle, not swept under the rug or categorized into traditional norms.

These are the people I'm talking about…

 

[CelticFrost]

I'm pretty sure the article specifically points out that phone games aren't included.

That's one old argument that always makes me LOL.

"The picture that emerges from the study is one of expansion across the board. More people are playing more games of various genres across more platforms, with social games on mobile and casual games on PCs emerging as huge leaders."

It may be an old argument but if the facts are there to make it ....

 

[CelticFrost]

Do you know how many hockey moms I see playing games on their phones? Do you know how many men? Same holes true at all sports my children play in or I coach.

I can't say I see many if any men doing the same thing.

 

[Silver]

I have soooo many friends who are really really uncomfortable with traditional male or female definitions, since, in our society, they're so polarized. "Men are strong and macho. Women are baby factories." (those are stereotypes, btw) A lot of people have always felt like they fell somewhere in the middle, and they want to be acknowledged as in the middle, not swept under the rug or categorized into traditional norms.

These are the people I'm talking about…

I get where your coming from. But having said that there isn't anything wrong with being a stereotypical man/women either. Just over-played in culture so some people feel left out including many men and women.

As a counterpoint I remember not so long ago it became fashionable to attack women for being too thin in the media when that was normal for them because it made some people feel less worthwhile. Turned into bullying from the people defending over-weight body types because they felt justified in having a go at them. Thats not a healthy mindset for anyone to have and it shouldn't be encouraged; least people think they're infallible.

 

[Aubrielle]

"The picture that emerges from the study is one of expansion across the board. More people are playing more games of various genres across more platforms, with social games on mobile and casual games on PCs emerging as huge leaders."

It may be an old argument but if the facts are there to make it ….

Alright. Can you give us some facts to illustrate your point about how women are only the majority because we play candy crush and bejeweled? Or is all your evidence anecdotal?

 

[Aubrielle]

See, cause if you want to go anecdotal…you're a bit older, right? I could point out how everyone I know in my age group who games (outside the Watch) is female. It's VERY female dominated.

And that's the point of the article. Women of a certain age are now the majority. You might not like it, but...facts are facts and we need to accept reality...

 

[Wisdom]

Which group is that, Wisdom?

All of them.

Indie studios are like small businesses run by mom n pop in a basement. They are the business. They can sell horemone free, grain fed, hand raised, beef by the lb. because they don't need a high profit margin to survive. Do they have a market. Sure.

AAA studios are like Supermarkets. They are going to order and sell 6oz steaks because that is what the majority of people are paying for. Could they sell the other meat? Sure. But how much return are they going to see on any $ invested.

Like I said earlier.. in a gaming world where every stat is tracked, every quest and choice you make in game is reported back, your hairstyle and playtime, failed quests, missed quests etc...
They won't be taking chances until the money proves its worth it.

 

[CelticFrost]

Alright. Can you give us some facts to illustrate your point about how women are only the majority because we play candy crush and bejeweled? Or is all your evidence anecdotal?

Aubrielle, you didn't even read the article you posted or if you did you didn't read it fully.

I do not have those the facts in question nor, planning on doing research on the topic.
I can leave it to you to find the facts to your claim though. That is if we are talking about the type of games the people here play.


Wait it wasn't that hard.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/sep/17/women-video-games-iab

http://blog.mobiversal.com/women-are-more-valuable-than-men-for-game-developers.html

 

[Aubrielle]

Aubrielle, you didn't even read the article you posted or if you did you didn't read it fully.

I do not have those the facts in question nor, planning on doing research on the topic.
I can leave it to you to find the facts to your claim though. That is if we are talking about the type of games the people here play.

Oh I absolutely read it. I was wondering if you did...

(I'm at a restaurant right now so I can quote when I get home, but) The article clearly mentioned phone games as NOT being included in the study. At all.

 

[CelticFrost]

Oh I absolutely read it. I was wondering if you did…

(I'm at a restaurant right now so I can quote when I get home, but) The article clearly mentioned phone games as NOT being included in the study. At all.

I quoted right from the article you posted, see above or read the article.

I could really careless at the end of the day who plays what, it more to the point about posting some pointless article. I can do any sort of research with any sort of bias to make sure what I want to be written gets wrote.