Skyrim - Acceleration Layer Mod

Lots of butthurt ITT. What's wrong, your dream-game-developer turned out to be not so dreamy after all?

Oh btw, speaking about PC vs. console sales, what was it again? Oh yeah, 10 Million Retail Sales On PC alone. Let that sink for a good while. Ten. Million. Boxed. PC. Sales. That's like 1.000.000 x 10. Now, where's mah console sales charts? Oh never mind.

And the best part? They completely absolutely get away with terrible and terribly inconsistent textures, poor and terribly inconsistent game models, abysmal animations, crap optimisation (or complete lack thereof), horribly imbalanced game mechanics. That is 10 Million Drones who don't care about any of that stuff as long as they get their purty looking hiking simulator.

R00FLES!!!

villain of the story said:

Lots of butthurt ITT. What's wrong, your dream-game-developer turned out to be not so dreamy after all?

Oh btw, speaking about PC vs. console sales, what was it again? Oh yeah, 10 Million Retail Sales On PC alone. Let that sink for a good while. Ten. Million. Boxed. PC. Sales. That's like 1.000.000 x 10. Now, where's mah console sales charts? Oh never mind.

And the best part? They completely absolutely get away with terrible and terribly inconsistent textures, poor and terribly inconsistent game models, abysmal animations, crap optimisation (or complete lack thereof), horribly imbalanced game mechanics. That is 10 Million Drones who don't care about any of that stuff as long as they get their purty looking hiking simulator.

R00FLES!!!

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Its an internet forum about games. People express their opinions and everyone has a diferent opinion but at least don't bash people for doing exactly what you are also doing, wich is expressing an opinion.

I don't regard Skyrim as a game. I regard Skyrim as a sandbox for the community to create content, same as in oblivion.

Oblivion was crap out-of-the-box, but 1 year later was fabulous and even now 5 years later still has life with new FREE content. Skyrim is "OK" out-of-the-box, but after 1 week its already an awesome experience due to numerous mods out there. With the creation KIT the mod community will release FOR FREE content worth of several hundred dollars in hours of gameplay.

This is the major advantage of skyrim and bethesda games. They are crap as games but wonderfull as sandbox engines. I spend more time (and have fun) modding the game and experimenting new stuff than actualy playing the main quest line.

villain of the story said:

Oh btw, speaking about PC vs. console sales, what was it again? Oh yeah, 10 Million Retail Sales On PC alone. Let that sink for a good while. Ten. Million. Boxed. PC. Sales. That's like 1.000.000 x 10. Now, where's mah console sales charts? Oh never mind.

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Not sure where you're getting the 10 million figure as being PC only, that was the total for all platforms. All they've said regarding the PC version is that it outsold its rivals by 3 to 1.

To get answers to most of these questions we either would have to wait for an hypothetic post-mortem or to centralize questions and publish them on something like www.why-o-gamedevs.org

In the meantime, we could, as always, just debate about why gods hate us so much

KnightPT said:

Its an internet forum about games. People express their opinions and everyone has a diferent opinion so I will just tell you what to do or not to do COZ, U KNOW, FREEDUMM LOLOLOL!!

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Fixed.

R00FLES!!

KnightPT said:

Oblivion was crap out-of-the-box, but 1 year later was fabulous and even now 5 years later still has life with new FREE content.

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LOLWUT

It was crap on release, now it's crap with toppings. The moment you sink your teeth in, they go right through the toppings and get the crap all over. Imagine that for a moment.

Or let me know about all these fabulous!(ly crap) mods that breathes new life for FREE (all in CAPITAL glory).

Wait, in case some people don't get what I'm saying, I'll rephrase myself with better clarity:

It was CRAP on release, now it's CRAP with TOPPINGS. The MOMENT you sink your teeth in, they go right through the toppings and get the CRAP all OVER. Imagine THAT for a moment.

Or let me know about all these FABULOUS!(ly CRAP) mods that DROPS BREATHES a new CRAP LIFE for FREE.

I LOVE WRITING IN CAPS BTW HOOHOO!

R00FLES!!1

DPB said:

Not sure where you're getting the 10 million figure as being PC only, that was the total for all platforms. All they've said regarding the PC version is that it outsold its rivals by 3 to 1.

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You are correct. But my point still stands. 3 to 1. Hard to swallow after so much bs anti-PC propaganda by practically every major studio out there.

Couchpotato said:

Hm pathetic when all there games have the same technical problems because of the game engine. Whatever makes you feel better but its the truth. Fact is they never fixed the same problems.

Forgive me but I got to say this blindly supporting a company but not recognizing its faults is the reason why developers get a away with so much crap.

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What the Hades are you talking about? Morrowind and Oblivion had this same problem? Where did you hear that?? I don't see anything on Oblivion Nexus for fixing bad compile options.

Or are you just saying that there were technical problems of some kind? Gee, the developers were unable to write perfect code in a finite time, imagine that.

KnightPT said:

1. I'm a 35 year old guy. I dont forget stuff easily. I don't forget it was guys like me on the PC MARKET that made bethesda what they are today.

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And I've got ten years on you. Don't forget it was people like me that tried to make non-IBM-clones more popular as home PCs (and failed horribly, unfortunately - it's all the fault of those damn Amiga splitters .

2. Please get your facts straight before commenting. The "neglect" they made on the PC version are stuff any junior programmer on the PC platform should be aware.

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Which is why I think it's some sort of screw-up in the build process. The game works very well, which proves these guys DO know what they are doing. If they were so ignorant that they didn't even know about compile switches then they never could have written the game we see. Thus, this must be a mistake. (One that can be fixed easily but I dread the testing they will have to do to confirm the optimizations don't break anything.)

Anyone interested in commenting on point 3? Has anyone looked to see if this problem also exists on either or both console versions? CAN anyone but Bethesda look into that?

Wooow, really big improvements here. Especially in NPC heavy areas. Markath went from stuttering beyond unplayable to almost silky smooth. Impressive.

FFS, what were you thinking Bethesda? That's just inexcusable…

Zloth said:

… - it's all the fault of those damn Amiga splitters .

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Hey hey, don't badmouth the Amiga now.

Well, Morrowind was a huge fuck-up because the game didn't even make much use of GPU. It was very CPU-bound and burdened the CPU with processes that could be, no, should be, handed over to the GPU. Luckily, we got MGE to "fix" that problem and suddenly, entire game was a lot better for everyone.

And Oblivion, F3 and FNV all had similar hardware limitations when the rest of the industry has moved on towards far better things. I mean, for FSM's sake for instance, mere shadows is a huge deal of resources in Skyrim, in our year of 2011 that is about the end while the rest of the industry has long caught more or less a certain quality of standards in shadows through 2007 and 2008, a strong trend started with Crysis and maybe a few others. Skyrim demands more hardware horsepower to squeeze out the lowest quality of shadows Crysis was able to outmatch smoothly on a P4 machine with an AGP graphics card (and I know because I played Crysis on one such machine, individual settings ranging from medium to very high).

Or take the memory address problems present since Morrowind. The same problems in every Bethesda game since then. Again, in our year of 2011 which is about to end, we're only just promised support for 4GB or more amount of RAM in Skyrim in an upcoming patch when it's largely a non-issue for the rest of the industry. Likewise with Memory leaks.

They have settled with the basic framework of Gamebryo and got too comfortable with it and now can barely keep up with the industry standards. They owe a huge thanks to whoever runs their art direction. They should crown the people responsible for the art direction and give them huge bonuses!

I'm under the impression that they owe a huge deal to Gamebryo's technical support. Now, of course, having licensed the engine and technical support, it's Gamebryo's duty to provide their services but what I mean is that they possibly got Gamebryo to do most of the stuff for them instead of just training and whatever and now are still running on the same knowledge base and trying to stick pieces of fresh flesh on an aging skeleton.

And to boot, there has been several occasions on Elder Scrolls Forums in the past where some of the programmers who got involved in discussions showcased a striking lack of a grasp on some of the fundamental facets of their own trade.

I'm only amazed that they still manage to make games that just run this well, despite everything. Nothing money can't buy, I guess.

KnightPT said:

Its an internet forum about games. People express their opinions and everyone has a diferent opinion but at least don't bash people for doing exactly what you are also doing, wich is expressing an opinion.

I don't regard Skyrim as a game. I regard Skyrim as a sandbox for the community to create content, same as in oblivion.

Oblivion was crap out-of-the-box, but 1 year later was fabulous and even now 5 years later still has life with new FREE content. Skyrim is "OK" out-of-the-box, but after 1 week its already an awesome experience due to numerous mods out there. With the creation KIT the mod community will release FOR FREE content worth of several hundred dollars in hours of gameplay.

This is the major advantage of skyrim and bethesda games. They are crap as games but wonderfull as sandbox engines. I spend more time (and have fun) modding the game and experimenting new stuff than actualy playing the main quest line.

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Correction Oblivion was crap out the gate, it takes more mods than the game and it's expansion in pure megabytes, to turn it into a merely DECENT game. It's like comparing a 2 on the stool chart to only just throwing up a little, kind of. And then when you sink your teeth in, you still have to deal with the fact, EVERYONE SOUNDS THE SAME, AND/OR if you use mods, HAS NO VOICE with text that flashes on the screen for 2 seconds.

I'm going to give you a sentence and I want you to comprehend it and give it emotion and proper context, in 2 seconds.

You look strong, we could have work a man like you here at Ricks Tire Shack.

What, whats that, you were reading the last word and starting the comprehension phase, guess what, it's gone. And you can't scroll up to view a text log.

Oh what about the fact that people in the game don't walk, they glide over the ground while walking sound effects play. Or how about the fact that the entire game is a tolkien fantasy wasteland when it's supposed to be a jungle, with Mayan temples in the center.

Or what about the fact that the core of combat, without mods, and even partially with them, is run forward and mash attack, while simultaneously slamming the C key to keep yourself healed. The mods I've used to far to fix that have basically, just added a now you have to mash G in addition to C to shield bash and keep the enemies stunned.

And some of that shit got WORSE in Skyrim.

Ah its refreshing to see people with good opinions and not just ass kissing a company just because it a TES game. I wont say it again as the same problems persist in every releases. Yeah they listen to there fanbase alright.

The game is almost seemless for me on my ancient rig. I have an X2-5000 with 2gig of ram and play on high with 0 stuttering and 0 crashes in over 250 hours of gameplay.

Applying this mod made basically no difference to me.

villain of the story said:

...terrible and terribly inconsistent textures, poor and terribly inconsistent game models, abysmal animations...

...purty looking.

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Make up up your mind, huh?

Looks promising, but isn't it better to hold off on installing SKSE until after the first few rounds of official patches?

Otherwise isn't it likely that an upcoming official patch would result in a conflict?

Roll-A-Dice said:

Correction Oblivion was crap out the gate, it takes more mods than the game and it's expansion in pure megabytes, to turn it into a merely DECENT game. It's like comparing a 2 on the stool chart to only just throwing up a little, kind of. And then when you sink your teeth in, you still have to deal with the fact, EVERYONE SOUNDS THE SAME, AND/OR if you use mods, HAS NO VOICE with text that flashes on the screen for 2 seconds.

I'm going to give you a sentence and I want you to comprehend it and give it emotion and proper context, in 2 seconds.

You look strong, we could have work a man like you here at Ricks Tire Shack.

What, whats that, you were reading the last word and starting the comprehension phase, guess what, it's gone. And you can't scroll up to view a text log.

Oh what about the fact that people in the game don't walk, they glide over the ground while walking sound effects play. Or how about the fact that the entire game is a tolkien fantasy wasteland when it's supposed to be a jungle, with Mayan temples in the center.

Or what about the fact that the core of combat, without mods, and even partially with them, is run forward and mash attack, while simultaneously slamming the C key to keep yourself healed. The mods I've used to far to fix that have basically, just added a now you have to mash G in addition to C to shield bash and keep the enemies stunned.

And some of that shit got WORSE in Skyrim.

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Have ever heard of a mod called "Elys Universal Silent Voice"? It fixes the problem with 2 second text.

PS. I have never seen npc's slide across the ground even with 20 GB of mods installed. I don't play a fighter since there are some great magic mods that make magic very fun.

I'm inclined to agree that the PC version has been neglected.

I've seen to so many complaints about technical issues, bugs online. Anecdotal: And my friend who bought the game a week ago has been having some bugs and nearly encountered a gamebreaking issue with a major objective in a quest chain not initiating.

There are ES wikis which detail not only quests but potential bugs and workarounds! I found this hilarious. Extremely helpful but provides some insight on the issues on the series, i think.

Bethesda seems to get away with a lot of these crap, i think. Sadly, public opinion always seem to side with Bethesda - every game they create will always be heralded the greatest ever and accolades are showered upon them.

I have yet to play Skyrim. Just like a Microsoft OS releases, I am waiting for at least 6 months for all the major patches to be released.

Modding is a great feature. But at a certain point, i find that much of the game has transformed and is no longer what it used to be. The agony of being practical versus a purist..Aaarghhh.

I sent an email to CD Projekt a week ago - asking to consider making a new RPG series in an open world. Imagine the storytelling expertise and technical prowess of the Witcher in a sandbox style. Oh blimey....

Dr. A said:

I sent an email to CD Projekt a week ago - asking to consider making a new RPG series in an open world. Imagine the storytelling expertise and technical prowess of the Witcher in a sandbox style. Oh blimey….

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That is a good idea. Recently there was an announcement they were working on a new scfi rpg.

Link-http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/11/24/cd-projekt-working-on-aaa-title-could-be-sci-fi/

presumably if they left off a few compiler flags, they can simply recompile their code and release it as patch (may be largish tho)? I would be suprised if -O2 level optimization broke anything. I have compiled using -O3 for years (windows, linux, macos etc) and have never had issues related to that optimization level. The stuff these guys have patched seems 'bog standard' and supported on any modern x86 compliant arch - which is, essentally everythingthis side of the Ark. Are they aware of this?

booboo said:

presumably if they left off a few compiler flags, they can simply recompile their code and release it as patch (may be largish tho)? I would be suprised if -O2 level optimization broke anything. I have compiled using -O3 for years (windows, linux, macos etc) and have never had issues related to that optimization level. The stuff these guys have patched seems 'bog standard' and supported on any modern x86 compliant arch - which is, essentally everythingthis side of the Ark. Are they aware of this?

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At last someone who understands pass the "zomg another one that is is complaining about PC version, consoles are the money!".

The whole point of my "complaining" is that the optimizations they "forgot" to put in the PC version are so basic and tried in PC software that is like releasing a car and forgeting to put the reverse shift. - It's basic stuff, its not computer extreme science.

It almoust reminds me of Nvidia Physx that is so poorly optimized for x86, not using tried&true methods for years, that almoust seems on purpose just so it realy CAN'T be run well on x86 lol.

Dhruin said:

Make up up your mind, huh?

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I knew you smarter than that.

There is a term called "art direction". You might have heard of it before. That's what Skyrim has good and why it looks good despite all those points I raised, none of which contradicts with the game looking pretty.

If you disagree, let's have it.

To help you with it, here's a basic guideline:

The game has textures of terrible quality: Y/N
Texture quality in the game is inconsistent: Y/N
The game has very poor/very low poly models: Y/N
Model quality in the game is inconsistent: Y/N
The game has poor animations: Y/N
The game generally looks pretty: Y/N

KnightPT said:

1. I'm a 35 year old guy. I dont forget stuff easily. I don't forget it was guys like me on the PC MARKET that made bethesda what they are today.

2. Please get your facts straight before commenting. The "neglect" they made on the PC version are stuff any junior programmer on the PC platform should be aware.

a) X86 optimizations
b) LAA > 4gb RAM
c) Sound quality > 44khz
d) mouse aceleration unplayable in most PC rigs
e) V-sync poorly implemented in most cases

This is not high-tech precision stuff. This is basic-concept. We're not asking for super-awesome PC optimizations like little kids wanting candy, we're asking for the basic stuff.


I personaly don't care much because i have quite OK modding abilities and experience with gamebryo engine, so most of the stuff that was quite poor on the 1st day i was already changing in .ini settings and using mods a few days later, but what realy anoys me is friends of mine that spent €50 on the PC version because i CONVINCED THEM it would be way cooler than on their x360 and now most of them can't play the game unless i go to their place and teach them how to mod and tweak it properly.

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I'm a grownup, too! And even older than you.

All you need to fix these problems is to get a whole new engine.

I can guarantee close to 100% of the speedup from this mod is going to be from SSE, and it is impossible to get SSE instructions to generate without doing it yourself by hand. You can't just change a command line, I know because I have tried again and again and even contacted Microsoft in disbelief their compiler sucks so much and had it confirmed at the source.

It also takes a lot more programming expertise than any hopped up gamebryo modder (ie bethesda programmer) could possibly have. But even if you have done that before like I have you would be foolish to hack on the engine to such a large extent; it would make much more sense to get an engine that sucks less or to get the engine maker to make the optimizations you desire.

Just like you'd be foolish to mod Skyrim in an attempt to get a good game when what you were hoping for was an RPG.