Baldur's Gate - EE Interview @ Kotaku

Couchpotato said:

The pc version will no doubt cost more which is bullshit as you can buy it for $5-10 on a gog sale.

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Did you expect an improved version to be the same price?

JDR13 said:

Did you expect an improved version to be the same price?

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Yeah I don't expect it to cost more than $15 -20 anymore is as I said bullshit. Its hardly anything new anyone can make BG mods there not hard to do. Just search the internet.

We can agree to disagree all we want. I see it as price gouging when one platform cost less and it costs double or triple on another platform.

Couchpotato said:

Yeah I don't expect it to cost more than $15 -20 anymore is as I said bullshit. Its hardly anything new anyone can make BG mods there not hard to do. Just search the internet.

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Really? Well then find me a hi-res mod that doesn't change the game's scale.

As far as the price is concerned, I'd be very surprised if it was more than $20.

JDR13 said:

I think you're underestimating how much better it might look at properly scaled higher resolutions. I'll buy it for that reason alone.

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How can it possibly look better if the animations are still basic and the character models are still very poorly detailed? Simply upping/scaling the resolution won't "enhance" these issues; if anything, these problem areas might be further highlighted. Proper high resolution support would be nice, but it won't work miracles.

Note that this isn't a criticism of the original games, as i think they have aged pretty well for the most part, remaining very playable to this day. But if this project is going to be called "enhanced," then they better enhance it - leaving the over a decade old character models and animations in place isn't what I would call "enhanced." I think it's becoming more and more clear that this is merely a cheap cash-in, with the word "enhanced" being used to fool people into thinking it will truly be an improvement over the existing community tweaks. From what I've seen, the whole aim of this project is simply to port it to the ipad. As usual, money talks and the PC market isn't a priority at all - despite the fact that a truly improved/enhanced Baldur's Gate on the PC would generate a huge amount of interest from PC gamers. Maintaining the 2D graphics and artwork but with far more detail (along the lines of Divine Divinity at the least) to go along with a more detailed Infinity Engine interface is the standard that I would expect out of an "enhanced edition, but that would require more effort... and heaven forbid Beamdog turn down extremely easy (ipad) money instead of creating a work fueled by passion and a desire to keep a classic RPG relevant.

Nerevarine said:

How can it possibly look better if the animations are still basic and the character models are still very poorly detailed? Simply upping/scaling the resolution won't "enhance" these issues; if anything, these problem areas might be further highlighted. Proper high resolution support would be nice, but it won't work miracles.

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It looks better in that it's not as pixelated and simply looks cleaner in general. Just like it does when you ramp up the resolution in BG2, except that everything becomes to small after a certain point in the original games. Even if they don't change the character models, which I don't find to be poorly detailed for a game from 1998, it will be a significant improvement. Nobody said it was going to work miracles.

Nerevarine said:

Note that this isn't a criticism of the original games, as i think they have aged pretty well for the most part, remaining very playable to this day. But if this project is going to be called "enhanced," then they better enhance it - leaving the over a decade old character models and animations in place isn't what I would call "enhanced." I think it's becoming more and more clear that this is merely a cheap cash-in, with the word "enhanced" being used to fool people into thinking it will truly be an improvement over the existing community tweaks. From what I've seen, the whole aim of this project is simply to port it to the ipad. As usual, money talks and the PC market isn't a priority at all - despite the fact that a truly improved/enhanced Baldur's Gate on the PC would generate a huge amount of interest from PC gamers. Maintaining the 2D graphics and artwork but with far more detail (along the lines of Divine Divinity at the least) to go along with a more detailed Infinity Engine interface is the standard that I would expect out of an "enhanced edition, but that would require more effort… and heaven forbid Beamdog turn down extremely easy (ipad) money instead of creating a work fueled by passion and a desire to keep a classic RPG relevant.

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I think we should wait until more is revealed before going on rants and throwing accusations around, but that's just me.

JDR13 said:

It looks better in that it's not as pixelated and simply looks cleaner in general. Just like it does when you ramp up the resolution in BG2, except that everything becomes to small after a certain point in the original games. Even if they don't change the character models, which I don't find to be poorly detailed for a game from 1998, it will be a significant improvement. Nobody said it was going to work miracles.

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True, which is why I said proper high res support would be nice. And yes, the character models are fine - if this was 1998 - but it's not, which is why I would like to see significant improvement . Again, I'm not criticizing the original games, but rather the idea of an "enhanced edition" that leaves certain areas affected by age untouched. That just reeks of laziness on their part.

JDR13 said:

I think we should wait until more is revealed before going on rants and throwing accusations around, but that's just me.

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My reaction comes from comments such as:

"It seems the PC version "won't be changed much" but the iPad version is getting a major UI overhaul" … "The desktop versions of both games won't be changed much, Tofer says. They'll have higher resolutions and full-screen modes, as well as "working" multi-player, but they won't look too different from their original incarnations in 1998 and 2000."

Seems pretty clear what their intent and focus is to me, so I don't think this is a knee-jerk reaction. I'd love to be wrong though Hopefully I can be pleasantly surprised, but I won't get my hopes hope.

If all they do with the PC version is get rid of that stupid paper doll on the inventory screen I'll be happy.

Nerevarine said:

"It seems the PC version "won't be changed much" but the iPad version is getting a major UI overhaul" …

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Yes, but for the PC:

"Look for the UI to get a serious overhaul. The other improvements will be rolled out in time."

You're not really arguing the difference between "major" and "serious"? They both get UI attention.

One of the reasons the iPad is getting attention is because they are announcing new things each week - last week was the iPad announcement. This/next week, they'll be talking about the just-announced Mac version. Doesn't prove much about the PC release - one way or the other.

human_male said:

If all they do with the PC version is get rid of that stupid paper doll on the inventory screen I'll be happy.

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Say what? Get rid of the paper doll??!?

Nerevarine said:

I'm not criticizing the original games, but rather the idea of an "enhanced edition" that leaves certain areas affected by age untouched. That just reeks of laziness on their part.

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I think you're underestimating the amount of work it would take to replace all the character models and animate new ones. They want to release this by Summer, and there's only so much they can accomplish in that time frame. What you seem to expect sounds more like a remake.

Perhaps I have a different idea of what "enhanced" means, but higher resolutions, tweaked UI, new quests, and all the additional character classes from BG2 is good enough for me.

JDR13 said:

I think you're underestimating the amount of work it would take to replace all the character models and animate new ones. They want to release this by Summer, and there's only so much they can accomplish in that time frame. What you seem to expect sounds more like a remake.

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I fully realize how much time it would take to do this - perhaps a minimum of 1 full year, maybe even a little less given that a reasonably sized team can be very productive while working on a simpler, non-AAA project- which is part of my "cash-in" point. Why is there such a short development period? They're basically looking at just a few months of work (unless they have secretly been in full development for a longer time period, which I have no knowledge of and doesn't appear to be the case), which isn't really enough for my liking.

JDR13 said:

Perhaps I have a different idea of what "enhanced" means, but higher resolutions, tweaked UI, new quests, and all the additional character classes from BG2 is good enough for me.

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Fair enough. I suppose at the end of the day that would be better than nothing. I guess it just leaves a sour taste in my mouth when I consider what an all-out "enhanced edition" would be like, while staying completely true to the original feel, atmosphere, and charm of the original games. The aspects that I proposed would arguably take only a year, perhaps even a little less (after all, the story, quests, dialogue, and the entire framework of the game is already included; it wouldn't be rebuilding the entire game from scratch or building an all-new engine), and I would rather wait a little while to get a truly awesome "enhanced/reworked/remade/whatever you want to call it" edition instead of one that leaves me wanting more. A "modernized yet still classical" Infinity Engine would be a great thing to see, rather than just a slightly tweaked one.

I'm not sure why a short development time automatically means they're "cashing in" in your mind. There's going to be a trade-off either way. If they took the time to implement the things you're talking about then the price would also be higher for us.

Anyways, if they come through with all the things they're claiming, that's more than just "slightly tweaked".

I loved Baldur's Gate I and II, as well as Throne of Bhaal, as much as the next guy… but I have no desire to buy the game again with very slight improvements. I'd much rather support some upcoming indie developers than someone trying to make a cash grab on an older title. This is good news for those who desire playing a long RPG on their touchpad, but I don't see the point personally.

It's a cash grab because they are doing very little to the game and re-releasing it at the same price (or more) of new indie games that took much more time and effort. I seriously doubt they are going to spend more time on this game then is being spent by indies on games like Legend of Grimrock, Project Zomboid, and Age of Decadence. Yet those guys are all charging less than I suspect this re-release is going to charge. Give me a break.

Kardiophylax said:

It's a cash grab because they are doing very little to the game and re-releasing it at the same price (or more) of new indie games that took much more time and effort. I seriously doubt they are going to spend more time on this game then is being spent by indies on games like Legend of Grimrock, Project Zomboid, and Age of Decadence. Yet those guys are all charging less than I suspect this re-release is going to charge. Give me a break.

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Of course they're not spending more time on it than an indie game that's being built from scratch. Why would they?

Whether or not it's going to be worth what they charge remains to be seen.

Couchpotato said:

Its hardly anything new anyone can make BG mods there not hard to do. Just search the internet.

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Umm no. Mods are a lot of work, especially anything that involves a new area (and really especially if it is truly new area, not some recycled one). There are some very good mods out there, but most suffer from sophomoric writing or simply bad execution. I'd pay good money for a professional quality mod.

blatantninja said:

Umm no. Mods are a lot of work, especially anything that involves a new area (and really especially if it is truly new area, not some recycled one). There are some very good mods out there, but most suffer from sophomoric writing or simply bad execution. I'd pay good money for a professional quality mod.

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You better hope they deliver than I never take a developers words at face value. Every time I do I wind up disappointed at the end product. It better not be more than $20 dollars on the pc also are its not worth it.

JDR13 said:

Of course they're not spending more time on it than an indie game that's being built from scratch. Why would they?

Whether or not it's going to be worth what they charge remains to be seen.

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My point is that I personally don't feel these guys should be rewarded with the same amount of money that an indie developer is working hard to earn. I'd say any more than $5 is too much. $10 for iPad sounds about right since it's a new platform.

EDIT: I do realize BG is $10 on GoG right now, so $5 probably sounds too cheap. However, I also realize the D&D Anthology Master Collection with all BG games and expansions, plus all Icewind Dale games, and Temple of Elemental Evil, and P:Torment can be purchased for $5 from Atari right now or around $7 from Gamestop.

Kardiophylax said:

My point is that I personally don't feel these guys should be rewarded with the same amount of money that an indie developer is working hard to earn. I'd say any more than $5 is too much. $10 for iPad sounds about right since it's a new platform.

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I think you're slightly delusional if you really believe it should only be $5.

We also have no idea how much money the devs will be receiving for their work, so it's a bit premature to judge them at this point. Especially since we haven't even seen the finished product yet.

Licensed products always cost more. Beamdog needs to split this 4 ways - BioWare, Atari, WotC/Hasbro and themselves. People might not like that...but it's reality.

Since Beamdog priced their last remake - also from BioWare - at $14.99, that would seem the obvious expectation to me.

I can't see that indie pricing is relevant - they have inconsistent policies and highly variable quality, so it's a difficult comparison. This is a much-loved classic and the demand is already obvious - they will price it accordingly.

This is not a remake. They are doing minor tinkering at most. They don't even have a fraction of the resources that would be needed to do anything significant in the timeframe they have.

If they can release it for the ipad for $10 with the same changes or even more changes than the pc version then why can't they release it for 10 on the pc?

Or are pc gamers going to pay to make up for the reduced profit of the ipad version?