Deus Ex: Human Revolution Initial Impressions

I'm now partway through Detroit.

This game is not an RPG. Maybe the earlier versions of it were, but this is a first person shooter with small portions of dialog. Most of the dialog so far simply advances the story, and there's some dialog that boils down to "I will do your quest" or "I will not do your quest"

I am amused that this game is covered by an RPG website. I am posting these thoughts only to tell others who read them that this is NOT an RPG. It's a stealth/action game with some small parts of dialog. You don't create a character. There is interaction but most of it has zero impact on anything. Yes, you choose how to level up, but in the end it's a choice of "do I go through the roof or through the front door?" and "do I shoot them with a gun or wait until their back is turned and then tackle them silently?"

Bioshock has just about the same level of RPG-ness that this game has. My best guess is that Deus Ex (stupid name by the way) is covered here because it's french canadian. For some weird reason, people here will gush over mediocre games that are not from the USA. And yes, it's full of stupid, offensive, ham-handed racial stereotypes.

The voice work is really bad in this game by the way. The main character ninja guy sounds like an amateur doing a Clint Eastwood impression with a bad hangover. The subtitles are necessary because the guy you play mumbles to a ridiculous degree. It gets worse as you hear it over and over. I don't think I've ever played a game as a hero this unlikeable. In fact, I hate most of the characters. Even the sympathetic ones like Megan's mom come across as unlikeable.

It's not a terrible game, but I'm surprised by the amount of praise it's getting here. Actually, it got praise all over the place.

I'm playing it with the positive reviews I've read echoing in my ears... I simply don't get it. It's competent, but so very, very lame in so many aspects.
 
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I don't mean to shock you, but people actually like different things :)

RPGWatch covers all kinds of games, with all kinds of RPG elements. You mentioned Bioshock yourself, which is also widely considered an action RPG - just like DE:HR. I'd say that DE:HR has more RPG elements, but I still wouldn't call it an RPG.

I'm pretty sure it's not marketed as an RPG either.

It's one of the best stealth shooters out there, if not THE best. If you don't like that genre, you will obviously not like this game.

This sounds like a case of misguided expectations. Also, that you need to repeat your dislike of certain aspects of the game over and over in the same thread, stating that it's not an RPG over and over, suggests your motivation isn't just to speak your mind. It's almost like you WANT everyone to understand that it isn't what we already know it's not.
 
Ha.

Yeah, I remember all the threads and coverage of Bioshock here. Wait, no I don't!

I never said Deus Ex Human Blah Blah Blah was a horrible game. It's a FPS that gets covered at RPG Watch, and I want to make it perfectly clear to people who are intrigued but on the fence about buying it that it is not an RPG. Are we going to hear about Call of Duty 12 on this site now because there's a few lines of dialog and you can choose how you advance?

Yes, misguided expectations. Precisely because I read on this site about what an awesome RPG this game is. Again, I will state that Deus Ex is only a borderline RPG and really has no reason to be here except that it's french canadian and not evil Bioware.
 
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Ovenall said:
Ha.

Yeah, I remember all the threads and coverage of Bioshock here. Wait, no I don't!

I never said Deus Ex Human Blah Blah Blah was a horrible game. It's a FPS that gets covered at RPG Watch, and I want to make it perfectly clear to people who are intrigued but on the fence about buying it that it is not an RPG. Are we going to hear about Call of Duty 12 on this site now because there's a few lines of dialog and you can choose how you advance?

Yes, misguided expectations. Precisely because I read on this site about what an awesome RPG this game is. Again, I will state that Deus Ex is only a borderline RPG and really has no reason to be here except that it's french canadian and not evil Bioware.
Click to expand...

It's not a single genre game. It's a hybrid. If you want to think you can decide for others how much of an RPG it is, I'll leave that to you - but I don't think you'll enjoy much success with that approach.

Personally, I don't have a problem with hybrid games being covered, regardless of what genre dominates. Mostly because genres tend to blend and blur more than most things, and it would be absolutely futile to try and make up objective rules that would suit everyone.

Furthermore, I think it's incredibly narrow-minded to use your own personal definition of the genre, as some kind of argument against the covering of a game that so many people obviously enjoy talking about, and which most of us consider "enough" of an RPG to talk about here.

That's actually quite petty, if you ask me.
 
I'm not "deciding for others." But I want to make it plain to others that this is not an RPG.

Mass Effect (1&2) got slammed over and over on this site for being too "streamlined" and not enough of an RPG, but this game which is pretty much a straightforward shooter with small bits of dialog gets praised here. Hell, there's even dialog parts that FORCE you to exhaust the dialog options before you can even get out of it. Could have made it a simple linear cut scene of dialog… But then where would the RPG factor of "choosing" the dialog options be? Mass Effect is far, far more of an RPG than this game is.

OK, I guess you can walk around a city between "missions" also. Maybe that counts as RPG these days?… Deus Ex gets massive praise here — a site about CRPGs — and I just don't get it. Yeah I guess I'm ranting, but it pisses me off that a game that could only barely be considered an RPG gets covered here and showered with praise when it's not an RPG, except in the most limited sense. And it's not even that well produced.

I can only chalk it up to the fact that it's made outside the USA. There's a weird fetish on this site for non US games and an equally weird animus towards anything made by american games companies.

And again -- this is not a small thing -- there's some really offensive racial stereotypes in this game that have no point at all other than giving it "flavor" as a racist game. Add that to bad character design and voice acting and this whole experience comes across worse and worse the more you play it.
 
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Ovenall said:
I'm not "deciding for others." But I want to make it plain to others that this is not an RPG.
Click to expand...

I think you mean that you want to make it plain that your opinion is that it's not an RPG… and you've done that.

Ovenall said:
I can only chalk it up to the fact that it's made outside the USA. There's a weird fetish on this site for non US games and an equally weird animus towards anything made by american games companies.

And again — this is not a small thing — there's some really offensive racial stereotypes in this game that have no point at all other than giving it "flavor" as a racist game. Add that to bad character design and voice acting and this whole experience comes across worse and worse the more you play it.
Click to expand...

I almost have to think you're just trolling at this point...
 
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I find some of the the racial stereotypes in the game offensive. Did I put that simply enough for you this time?

Do you deny that there's some offensive racial stereotypes in this game? It's a simple question answerable with a yes or no... pretend you're playing Deus Ex and have to exhaust the dialog options. Yes or no?
 
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Leticia (not sure how to spell her name). And just about any non-white character in the game. The first terrorist guy with the terrible Spanglish. Apparently you don't notice any of this or are pretending not to. I don't really care if you do or not, but I just want to put it out there for people reading this thread.

Again, it's an OK game, but it's a first person shooter that has barely any RPG traits at all, and some pretty bad voice acting and face models and animations.
 
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Yep.. having accents always equals racism.

Oh.. and I think you should mention that it's a first-person shooter with barely any RPG-ness. You haven't stressed that opinion enough yet..
 
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Me too. I can't think of any racial stereotypes that are standing out. Unless…he means black people are in gangs, Chinese people speak English with an accent, etc. Here's a shocker: black people are the predominant race in Midwest gangs, and they speak just like they do in Deus Ex. If you live in Chicago, you know this. I live in St. Louis and about 3 blacks a week die by bullet. They have metal teeth, wear bling, and say yo instead of you. It's not stereotyping if it's true.

Perhaps you would like the game better if David Sarif, Hugh Darrow, etc, were all black influential men of power and the gangs were full of tattooed white people? It wouldn't be realistic, but it might feed the dream…..

I think Ovenall needs a trip to downtown Detroit :)
 
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Ovenall said:
Trash picking black woman with clownishly over-the-top black stereotype voice acting. Yes, racist.

But again, it doesn't matter if you agree or not.
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At least you seem to understand it's about whether we agree or not. That means you should be able to understand that "it's not an RPG" is also a matter of opinion.
 
It's a hybrid game, just like Mass Effect - and especially Mass Effect 2.

I don't know which one is more of an RPG, and I don't really care. All I know is that I think Deus Ex HR is a great game, and I'd personally rate it FAR above Bioware's last couple of dreary interactive movies.
 
detroit does have a high percentage of african americans living in it. but hey the trash lady was quite the entrepenuer with the prices she charged and its not like jensen treated her badly in the conversations. also the races were quite mixed in detroit i thought with just as many of any race either as people on the street, in gangs, or working for sarif industries. hardly unbalanced i'd say. voice acting is also a hard thing to call stereotype on as sometimes it all depends on the quality of voice actors you hire, which in a game with a lot of npcs can be spread very thin. when you get to the end credits, and when you see how long they (which according to steam statisctics only a 1/3 of people who pass the game have watched them) it might be less easy to paint the game with unfair labels, or not. to me this says a lot about many gamers in that with so many who pirate, and also so many who further could give a shit about those who pour their lives into making the games that watching the credits is too much of a sacrifice of their time to watch them.
 
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I will at least agree with Ovenall that the game is not an RPG, IMnsHO. It gets covered here because the readers enjoy games like Thief, System Shock, Deus Ex The Original, Alpha Protocol and Mass Effect and enough readers consider them RPGs so they get included.

There is very little C&C and none with any sort of meaning to the actual story line. Leaving that Augments are like picking skills and attributes. The first game was largely the same and I think was accepted into the RPG fold because at the time it was fairly novel and most FPS games were Doom/Quake clones.
Saving Malik changes 2 cutscenes to include her as pilot instead of someone else. Saving the Terrorist gives you a code to avoid hacking something. Getting the implant makes a boss fight harder. Talking Darrow down gives you another code. None of those have any substance.

Splinter Cell: Double Agent had just about as much C&C and it impacted the story more but I'm sure we can agree that SC is not an RPG. I enjoyed the game because of its sneaker mechanics and all around decent combat but lacked the customization I expect for me to call it an RPG.
 
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It's really only the character leveling up that gives it it's RPG elements. The level up system is not especially deep and it breaks down a bit at higher level when you run out of options. But it is a RPG element, even if it's not a deep one.

So is it a RPG...it's not like there's a rule that you need to have x amount of stats and level up options before the game can be considered a RPG. It certainly has less stat customization and character skill impact then the original DE. There is C&C but the things that it effects are primarily cosmetic. But then many RPGS, especially old schools ones, have zero C&C.

Often for any game with hybrid RPG mechanics it boils down more to whether you like it or not. For all his claims that it's not a bad game, Ovenall clearly dislikes DEHR, thus he refuses to see that it could be related to his favorite genre. Similarly your much more likely to view ME as a RPG if you like it then if you don't. It's all purely subjective.
 
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