Does the environment affect ones sexuality?

[Ripper]

I thought he did a very good job in pointing the flaws in these studies which would "prove" it is all down to genetics.

Then you will definitely enjoy his argument about the recent dinosaurs, too. You may want to check out his entire playlist. I expect it will be quite an intellectual feast.

 

[txa1265]

there are lots of smart and educated people who are young earth creationists.

I would modify this to say "lots of otherwise smart and educated people "

I don't see how the fact that he believes in creation renders all of his observations on this subject invalid

No - but the fact that he is questioning the fundamental existence of homosexuality as a legitimate innate sexual orientation - in spite of there being evidence of homosexuality throughout all of recorded history , and ALSO believes in young earth creationism ... says he isn't a 'man of science' or a logical thinker in any sense of the word.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

To me this is deflection, as what he says is true: there is not a single shred of evidence that anyone is born gay. Even the authors of the studies themselves say they have not proved this, but gay activists and the media report otherwise.

Identical twin studies where one twin is gay also show that the other one is also gay at a frequency that is not more statistically significant than the rest of the population. If it was due to a gay gene or to "hormonal problems in the womb" the other twin would be gay 100% of the times.

You also have the examples of the Greek times or other eras of humanity where it proliferates, and others where it is far less prevalent. Also you have situations such as prisons where men turn to homosexuality and often are still that way when they get out.

 

[txa1265]

The 'gay gene' thing is about as hilariously pathetic as the slave studies 'proving' that they needed to be dominated. OK, I'll play along - if what you say iiis tre, you should be able to produce data to show that EVERY set of identical twins is EXACTLY the same height (ok, within +/- 1mm), has exactly the same medical makeup, allergies, heart/lung strength, shoe size, food response, hair growth rate, exact size of all teeth that all appeared within +/- 1 hour of each other.

Oh you can't? Hmmm ... then MAYBE you will realize that having a split genetic code does NOT ensure completely identical outcomes.

Unless you are hateful and looking for excuses for your hate and discrimination, such as using cherry-picked so-called Biblical quotes and excluding major swaths that say otherwise.

Also, please provide irrefutible evidence that peopel are born heterosexual.

 

[Damian]

But surely more than 20% at best? Some twin studies show as low as 7%.

 

[Caddy]

Gayness can be exorcised by a skilled priest .

Are you being serious? Because I can't tell.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

Another factor that casts doubt on the "born this way" argument:

http://www.gcmwatch.com/exhomosexual-videos

On this link alone, there are 200 video testimonies of people who used to be gay, but who left homosexuality. I met some of these so-called "ex-gays" myself in church communities, and even talked to some of the people featured on this link through blogs, e-mail and Facebook.

If it was inborn and completely immutable, I doubt you would see so many of these.

In these testimonies the people allude to traumas and other nurture-related problems which ultimately set the path for their same sex attractions. There's no way you can simply discount the entirety of such testimonies.

 

[Myrthos]

so, if I would find at least the same amount of videos of people who were in a heterosexual relationship, but found out they feel more for partners of the same sex, that would nullify your videos?

Why is it at all relevant why someone is gay, hetero or bi-sexual? Does it at all matter if it is genetic or not? The only important factor in my opinion is if they are happy with their relationship. And if they are more happy in a same sex relation, why on earth does anyone want to ruin that for them?

 

[GothicGothicness]

There is no proof people are born straight either......

 

[txa1265]

why on earth does anyone want to ruin that for them?

Because he is operating from a position of hate, discrimination and judgment - and only evidence that supports that hate becomes possible, all others are discarded out of hand. The sad thing is that while he and many others use their religion as cover for this hatefulness, it is exactly counter to the teachings, and makes it very plain how ludicrous the underpinnings are for that church.

 

[zahratustra]

On this link alone, there are 200 video testimonies of people who used to be gay, but who left homosexuality. I met some of these so-called "ex-gays" myself in church communities, and even talked to some of the people featured on this link through blogs, e-mail and Facebook.

Related but separate points:
1- a lot (if not all) or those videos are clickbaits designed to create traffic and revenue for the posters.
2- "testimonies of people who used to be gay, but who left homosexuality" are, nowadays, becoming a source of income. Real money can me made from touring anti-gay/lesbian circles telling a heartwarming story of one's conversion. And the good thing is that one never needed to be gay in the first place!

 

[DArtagnan]

I struggle to care about sexuality.

I care about people being happy, so that they don't feel the need to make others unhappy.

Maybe that's why I stay away from books telling me I should be unhappy because I'm human.

 

[zahratustra]

LOL DArt much more money can be made on unhappy of books than the happy ones. Fortunes are made by telling people that they are unhappy or unsuccessful and that the author knows how to make them happy and successful.

 

[DArtagnan]

The Bible kinda rules in that area, was my point

 

[txa1265]

I struggle to care about sexuality.

The way I look at it is there are only two people whose sexuality you should care about - yourself and your partner. As a parent this extends to children in terms of education and awareness. But that is pretty much it.

 

[DArtagnan]

The way I look at it is there are only two people whose sexuality you should care about - yourself and your partner. As a parent this extends to children in terms of education and awareness. But that is pretty much it.

Well, if other people think sexuality is interesting when it doesn't directly relate to themselves, I have no right to tell them otherwise.

What I won't support, however, is trying to change it for no good reason.

But if people think being gay is harmful - then maybe they have a point. Personally, I can't see it - but there should be room for discussion.

That said, biblical reasons aren't compelling or convincing, and if that's the prime motivator behind discriminating against homosexuals, then I will have to stand against such activities.

 

[txa1265]

Absolutely - we can have discussions in the abstract about the benefit or detriment of anything: sexuality, skin color, gender, RPG preference

My problem is when it stops being a discussion and starts being a concerted effort to marginalize people, exclude them from having certain rights and benefits and otherwise actively discriminating against them.

I mean, people who play phonegames deserve equal treatment, too!

 

[Pladio]

But surely more than 20% at best? Some twin studies show as low as 7%.

http://geneticsawareness.org/learn-...are-identical-twins-100-genetically-identical

While the two babies share the same DNA code, there is more to our genetics than just that. During development in the womb and after birth, our surroundings, exposures, and nutrition influence how our genes are expressed and how our bodies and minds develop. For example, two identical twins may have the same genes for height, but if one twin does not receive the same amount of nutrients while in the womb, it may be shorter than the other twin. We know also, that there are some changes to our genes that can happen during the embryonic period or during development. While this rarely happens, it makes it so that one identical twin may have a genetic condition, while the other twin does not. Our genetic code is a very large part of our genetic makeup, but there are other factors, genetic and environmental, that make us unique!

 

[DArtagnan]

I mean, people who play phonegames deserve equal treatment, too!

Just barely

 

[Pladio]

Anyway, it is very likely (IMO) that genetics is not the sole factor for homosexuality.

That doesn't change anything with regards with the case others have made that it doesn't matter. If two guys or girls are happy being together, what is your issue with it ?

Does it stop you from living your life ?