Dragon Age 2 - 10 Things You Should Know

[rune_74]

Please tell me you don't really think Bioware and.. Bethesda maybe?, are the last 2 developers of good RPGs. Bioware lost its magic a long time ago, after Throne of Bhaal. CD Projekt, Obsidian. Ok, I feel better now.

How do we know CD projekt is good? They have made one game that has been released. Yes they have the second on the way, but I think it is premature to call them a great RPG game company.

 

[Couchpotato]

Ah lovely we have the same three posters that have to say there views are right and everybody else is wrong. You three know who you are..Typical in the last month of every bioware thread. We cant hate a game after given facts reviews and a demo. But hey its only a game right?

 

[rune_74]

Ah lovely we have the same three posters that have to say there views are right and everybody else is wrong. You three know who you are..Typical in the last month of every bioware thread. We cant hate a game after given facts reviews and a demo. But hey its only a game right?

hahah is this a cop out view? Read what I wrote. I never said you couldn't hate anything, stop trying to twist things because I have a different view then you.

Key words in my comment was I think. Do you think we should look at cdprojekt as great off of one game?

And you know what? who the hell made you right?

 

[Captain Buzzkill]

I was just thinking - and this is just playing a little Devil's Advocate - will The Witcher 2, Deus Ex, and Skyrim receive this much scrutiny days before release?

The intensity of the pro DA2 vs con DA2 has really ramped up in the last few days. We've run EA/Bioware's business practices and strategies, and the demo, into the ground. The only real new info we have to go on is the runthrough that the Codex did, and, piracy issues notwithstanding, asking them to fairly evaluate a Bioware product is like asking the Taliban to comment on women's fashion.

Maybe we just calm down with the rhetoric a little bit and realize that disagreement isn't a bad thing. Perhaps we should make the issue a little less personal, as well. There's a lot of "Bioware hates gamers" and "Bioware is destroying my childhood" drama going on right now, and it simply isn't true. Has Bioware lost some of its edge? Has the company gotten a little pudgy and complacent? I think so, but I don't take it personally. They're responding to market forces.

 

[spiraling69]

Yeah, I never understood why you often see so many people wanting a "Baldur's Gate III". Baldur's Gate was a trilogy comprising of Baldur's Gate, Shadow of Amn and Throne of Bhaal with a clear beginning, middle and ending.

A Baldur's Gate 3 would make no sense and in essence would most likely just be… an unrelated RPG with Baldur's Gate somewhere in its setting, like the cancelled "BGIII: The Black Hound" that was being worked on at Interplay ten years ago. So this would very much be pointless - arguably any Forgotten Realms game following a similar design philosophy could be considered a form of spiritual sequel.

(I wish Baldur's Gate II would just have been called "Shadows of Amn" like Bioware wanted to, this is always felt a silly title since the city of Baldur's Gate wasn't even in it )

Regarding DAII well… I'm somewhat torn on the issue. I enjoyed DAO but it was generic as heck and had some very boring and long winded part (the Deeproads comes to mind). I also really enjoyed the demo of DAII - sure it looks they Mass Effectised it, but heck, I love Mass Effect so who am I to complain ?

The plot and setting is actually what interest me the most about DAII - because it feels like it could actually be original for a Bioware game rather that following the usual same formula.

-Sergorn

I think you are missing the point. I feel that the majority of the people who refer to and want to see a new Baldur's Gate or "Baldur's Gate III" do not necessarily mean they are looking for some kind of continuation of that particular story line. Yes, it was a great run and the ending was satisfying, and there is no need to return to the Bahlspawn story…

What we do want is a new tactical, turn-based D&D game that returns to the lore of the Sword Coast. Other areas Faerun are fine too! They simply want a decent hard-core D&D game. A game thats the opposite of what Bioware has been spitting out recently. They want to control a party of at least 4+ characters, they want a rich and detailed world and a truly epic storyline. When people say they wish for "Baldur's Gate III" to come out, I bank on it that they are using that title in a generic way to ask for a new & epic D&D game.

 

[Couchpotato]

hahah is this a cop out view? Read what I wrote. I never said you couldn't hate anything, stop trying to twist things because I have a different view then you.

Key words in my comment was I think. Do you think we should look at cdprojekt as great off of one game?

And you know what? who the hell made you right?

I could say the same for you all I hear is BLAH BLAH BLAH from every comment you make. What a surprise its on people who comment they hate the game.

 

[rune_74]

I could say the same for you all I hear is BLAH BLAH BLAH from every comment you make. What a surprise its on people who comment they hate the game.

You have the option to not read anything I write, if thats all you hear then don't read it. Grow up.

 

[Couchpotato]

You have the option to not read anything I write, if thats all you hear then don't read it. Grow up.

Same could be said about you.

 

[rune_74]

Same could be said about you.

I really don't care what you think of me or my tastes, you seem to care a lot though. Being closed minded is a hard road I understand that. Hey different strokes for different folks. When upset others have different views single them out and say they don't matter

 

[Couchpotato]

I really don't care what you think of me or my tastes, you seem to care a lot though. Being closed minded is a hard road I understand that. Hey different strokes for different folks. When upset others have different views single them out and say they don't matter

Well now isn't that your job here. Every time someone says a negative opinion about DragonAge 2 you jump on them just look at the threads in the past month.
Whatever enjoy your smartass comments as I try to ignore them in the future. AS impossible as that is.

 

[Dhruin]

Deep breath, people...

 

[Gaxkang]

Ah lovely we have the same three posters that have to say there views are right and everybody else is wrong. You three know who you are..Typical in the last month of every bioware thread. We cant hate a game after given facts reviews and a demo. But hey its only a game right?

Yes I noticed that, but thought I was just paranoid. Just playing psychology, what could the motives:

1) Resenting the fact that people call DA2 a 'dumb' game, when the game seems to sit just fine with you.
2) Enjoying picking apart FUD and hyperbole generally
3) Being a covert BioWare plant
4) Disliking irrational rants or trolling haters generally
5) Being a covert EA plant
6) Really believing this game is a revolutionary hidden gem, and people are just not getting it
7) Being a covert codexian plant
8) Being so much in love with Origins that no thoughts of possible failures of the "sequel" can be allowed to go unchallenged

PS for the three posters (you know who you are) points 3), 5) and 7) are obviously facetious (most people have made up their minds already so I genuinely do not believe anybody would be asked to cheerlead - and the codexians trolling grounds are limited to the DA2 bioboards). Stated clearly for the record. Before anyone unleashes the mabaris of war

 

[Couchpotato]

Yes I noticed that, but thought I was just paranoid. Just playing psychology, what could the motives:

1) Resenting the fact that people call DA2 a 'dumb' game, when the game seems to sit just fine with you.
2) Enjoying picking apart FUD and hyperbole generally
3) Being a covert BioWare plant
4) Disliking irrational rants or trolling haters generally
5) Being a covert EA plant
6) Really believing this game is a revolutionary hidden gem, and people are just not getting it
7) Being a covert codexian plant
8) Being so much in love with Origins that no thoughts of possible failures of the "sequel" can be allowed to go unchallenged

PS for the three posters (you know who you are) points 3), 5) and 7) are obviously facetious (most people have made up their minds already so I genuinely do not believe anybody would be asked to cheerlead - and the codexians trolling grounds are limited to the DA2 bioboards). Stated clearly for the record. Before anyone unleashes the mabaris of war

Yes I agree with most of your points but I must say 3,5,7, sound possible.

 

[aries100]

I know that some wants to see another turn-based game like Fallout, or Arcanum or or Temple of Elemental Evil. However, I do feel that there is a real fear at Bioware to go the way of the dodo, top become extinct at some point. I also think this was one of the main reasons to sell(out) to EA, to secure fundings for their new projects. To simply keep the business running and not be forced to close doors.

As for the differences in opinion about DA2, I think this comes down to what you value in a game. I, for instance, value characters, dialogue, story, as well as character interaction, interesting quests. Others might value gameplay and (turned-based) combat.
I think the split in opinions about DA comes from this.

And let's face it. Bioware has never been great in the gameplay nor the combat department. Bioware's games are story-driven games where plot, story-telling and structure are nearly all that matters. Gameplay and combat are just a necessity to drive the story forward. In Bioware games, that is.

Some you us (I do sometimes, too) yearn and long for the glorious old days of computer games (in the 1990's) were we geeks and nerds could have our little hobby to ourselves. However, it is not 1997 or 1998 anymore. It is 2011, and gaming has become mainstream (even my sister plays Guitar Hero ). To succeed in this day and age, even the smallest indie games need to appeal to at least a large portion of the mainstream market. Just look at Radon Labs, now somewhat defunct, and bought out. Their game, Drakensang did cost about 2½ million Euros to make. How much of this did they get back - and how many gamers bought Drakensang 2?

The point of this is that in order to survive in todays market, you'll need to find a way to ease casual gamers or mainstream gamers into the gameplay and the story. In DA2, the framed narrative makes sure this happens. Personally, I'm not that sure the casul and mainstream and Call of Duty players will be staying for more than an hour or maybe 1½ hours. The reason is that is not the combat that'll scare them away, it is the story, the dialogue, the quests and the character interaction.

Personally, I do not consider a game dumbed down, if and when the developers do everything they can make the UI more streamlined or accessible to players. To me, the more easy and understandably the UI is, the more beneficial (good) it is.

 

[Nerevarine]

I know that some wants to see another turn-based game like Fallout, or Arcanum or or Temple of Elemental Evil. However, I do feel that there is a real fear at Bioware to go the way of the dodo, top become extinct at some point. I also think this was one of the main reasons to sell(out) to EA, to secure fundings for their new projects. To simply keep the business running and not be forced to close doors.

As for the differences in opinion about DA2, I think this comes down to what you value in a game. I, for instance, value characters, dialogue, story, as well as character interaction, interesting quests. Others might value gameplay and (turned-based) combat.
I think the split in opinions about DA comes from this.
...
Some you us (I do sometimes, too) yearn and long for the glorious old days of computer games (in the 1990's) were we geeks and nerds could have our little hobby to ourselves. However, it is not 1997 or 1998 anymore. It is 2011, and gaming has become mainstream (even my sister plays Guitar Hero ). To succeed in this day and age, even the smallest indie games need to appeal to at least a large portion of the mainstream market. Just look at Radon Labs, now somewhat defunct, and bought out. Their game, Drakensang did cost about 2½ million Euros to make. How much of this did they get back - and how many gamers bought Drakensang 2?
...
The point of this is that in order to survive in todays market, you'll need to find a way to ease casual gamers or mainstream gamers into the gameplay and the story...

These are all very fair points, and I agree that companies need to do what's necessary in order to stay in business. The only recent, truly old-school, nearly-AAA party-based RPG was Drakensang: TROT, and it failed financially.

With this in mind, I think that DA:O was a nice solution to the "can hardcore games be successful financially?" problem. It didn't use Dn'D, which was a necessary decision in order to not scare off all but the most hardcore RPG fans. However, the tactics, character building/customization, storyline, and overall difficulty level were enough to engage the hardcore RPG fans, despite the minor grumblings of "this isn't the true spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate." Basically, they met the hardcore RPG fans halfway; they created a game that - although it didn't use Dn'D and wasn't as deep as some would like - was still an engaging experience to fans of the old-school RPGs. A perfect compromise, IMO. It wasn't as absurdly deep as the Dn'D games, which meant that newcomers wouldn't be completely scared off, but it still contained enough depth to appeal to longtime RPG fans. It's not a perfect solution, but it is one that I can certainly live with.

However, when it comes to DA2, how far is too far? This brings me to a point I've tried to make in another thread: How on earth is over 3 million sales not enough money to cover development costs and make a healthy profit? This is what makes the changes - primarily designed to bring in non-RPG fans/younger RPG fans in order to make more money - a bit unjustifiable. DA:O even outsold the "pinnacle of modern RPGs" Mass Effect 2 - and yet the DA team wants to copy Mass Effect??? Wouldn't logic dictate that it should be the other way around, i.e., ME takes notes from DA?

 

[DoctorNarrative]

Bioware mention the death of Black Isle and Troika whenever you talk on their forums about catering to the hardcore. They are very upfront and honest about selling as many copies as possible and bringing in action game fans. They are very upfront and honest about wanting to make blockbuster games and the demands of EA that they do so. None of this is hidden.

Which is why I personally was shocked that DA2 was so similar to Origins. I know people here focus on the changes but really I was expecting God of War with stats and despite the hyperbole of some here the game is NOTHING like that.

 

[Nerevarine]

Bioware mention the death of Black Isle and Troika whenever you talk on their forums about catering to the hardcore. They are very upfront and honest about selling as many copies as possible and bringing in action game fans. They are very upfront and honest about wanting to make blockbuster games and the demands of EA that they do so. None of this is hidden.

Which is why I personally was shocked that DA2 was so similar to Origins. I know people here focus on the changes but really I was expecting God of War with stats and despite the hyperbole of some here the game is NOTHING like that.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see it (other than the God of War with stats part; I definitely agree with you on that). Other than the name on the box and the fact that you still control a party, DA2 simply does not feel like DA:O at all, in terms of gameplay, atmosphere, or story. By itself, I see nothing wrong with a developer making changes to avoid becoming stagnant, but when a company is already very financially successful, it makes no sense to make games even more "accessible" and "streamlined" than they already are; these types of changes are not progressive, they are redundant. Rather than being more ambitious, a lot of companies take the safe route far too liberally. I would much rather see innovative new ideas than watered-down versions of old ideas.

 

[Corwin]

One thing I look for in an rpg is the possibility of avoiding combat. I want a diplomatic option for resolving problems. It appears DA 2 doesn't offer this choice. Pity!!

 

[Nerevarine]

One thing I look for in an rpg is the possibility of avoiding combat. I want a diplomatic option for resolving problems. It appears DA 2 doesn't offer this choice. Pity!!

Yes, this is something that I'd also like to see more of in RPGs - so very few have these sorts of possibilities. I'm still impressed that playing a character who focused on diplomacy worked so well in large portions of Arcanum. Now that was a "true" role-playing experience - one that allowed you to literally play a role and featured multiple solutions for completing quests.

 

[rune_74]

Yes I noticed that, but thought I was just paranoid. Just playing psychology, what could the motives:

1) Resenting the fact that people call DA2 a 'dumb' game, when the game seems to sit just fine with you.
2) Enjoying picking apart FUD and hyperbole generally
3) Being a covert BioWare plant
4) Disliking irrational rants or trolling haters generally
5) Being a covert EA plant
6) Really believing this game is a revolutionary hidden gem, and people are just not getting it
7) Being a covert codexian plant
8) Being so much in love with Origins that no thoughts of possible failures of the "sequel" can be allowed to go unchallenged

PS for the three posters (you know who you are) points 3), 5) and 7) are obviously facetious (most people have made up their minds already so I genuinely do not believe anybody would be asked to cheerlead - and the codexians trolling grounds are limited to the DA2 bioboards). Stated clearly for the record. Before anyone unleashes the mabaris of war

Or maybe I have a level head and regfuse to out right hate something because everyone else is? How the hell do you attack a person for expressing there views and then bash on them as trolls etc. Take a deeo breath and look how you two geniuses have come after anyone who says they like the demo/game. I have stated numerous times I liked what I have seen in the demo and I assume I will like the game. However before I can say I like the game I need to ...you know...play it. After all, how do you make an opinion if you don`t have all the facts.


And this will probably piss off the mods, but what the hell is this? Because I don't agree with what you people say I'm a plant or an idiot? Last I checked this was Rpgwatch not the codex(but I notice quite a few of you are avid codex followeres, shocking.) I thought we discussed the games here, let people enjoy what they want without making grandstanding claims like you are some sort of better person. I have stated my position numerous times and I'm not going to just disappear because I am not part of your hate mongering crowd, so get the hell over yourselves.