Fallout 4 - Video Breaks Down Character Development @ Gamespot

JDR13 said:
It's great that there's going to be that many perks, but why did they feel the need to eliminate the skill system entirely? Why not have both?

Yeah, I get that things that were previously skills are now wrapped into the perk system, but I still liked having two separate systems.
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I can't speak for them, obviously, but I think they're trying to create a player-driven experience - rather than a traditional stat-driven experience.

I think they want to make each level-up feel special and like you gain something new.

Sort of like how Deus Ex HR moved away from the skill-system of Deus Ex.

In my opinion, it was stupid to have a trained agent depend on skills to be able to aim a weapon with reasonable efficiency.

I think they're trying to make a game that's more about how you perform as a player, and less about the character-skills limiting basic gameplay. I assume it's the same way with stuff like stealth and lockpicking. I think they're going more for immersion than traditional RPG progression.

They've been going in this direction for a very long time.

Obviously, people who want more visible numbers and traditional RPG mechanics - like going from 57 to 63 in Science instead of something actually new - won't appreciate that.

I'm sure skills could still be a part of it, in some way, but it would be sort of redundant - and I can see their point.

So, FO4 and TES6 will most likely not please fans of the old-school approach.
 
Wisdom said:
- He wonders if a player character can be a jack of all trades.
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In fact, an ace in all trades, a polymath, a character that excells at everything.

Bethesda has kept putting the emphasis on the definition of the PC.
When polymaths are allowed, only two definitions exist: polymath (a polymath is no different from another) and failed polymath.

When polymaths are not available, many other definitions might exist.
A jack of all trades (a character average in everything) does not crush the existence of characters that excell at a few things and suck in others.
And characters that excell at a few things might be different one from another.

Players want to be polymaths, they want to max everything possible.
Bethesda hit that wall with SKyrim.

They come with a new solution in FO4 (or it ends the same)

One possibility is that PCs that have all the perks are jacks of all trades, that the definition level depends on the rank in each perk.

Polymaths might still be in the picture but levelling up characters up to the polymath status could take so much time that players prefer to go for an other profile.

Could be Bethesda's solution.
 
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As for the whole skills vs perks, or old-school "tons of visible numbers" vs "immersive player driven" stuff - I think there's room for both.

I can fully appreciate the dedicated fans of the old Fallouts not being fans of the new ones.

That said, I do think there are people who automatically assume everything they do to change Fallout will make it worse.

Personally, I think they did a lot of great things with Fallout 3 - and they did a lot of things I didn't agree with.

I still think their approach to balance and challenge sucks - at least in their past games (ALL of them) - but I don't quite understand the level of negativity from people who're otherwise reasonable.

I get it from the NMA/Codex crowd - as being stupid is kinda their mantra.

Anyway, I suggest playing the game with an open mind before calling new systems definitely worse. Sometimes, developers do things for other reasons than to "dumb it down" for sheep.
 
DArtagnan said:
Please don't let your inability to read affect what I mean.

With each SPECIAL having 10 Perks, there are 70 base Perks. With Perk ranks, it increases that number to over 270. That number also includes a top-level Training perk for each SPECIAL, so that you can essentially skip a regular Perk and raise a SPECIAL by 1. This gives you the benefit of the new SPECIAL value, and allows access to higher Perks in future levels.
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Like I said, perks only. Not much in way of stats. No ability levels.
 
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Thrasher said:
Like I said, perks only. Not much in way of stats.
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From you:

By stats, you mean perk stats. No ability stats visible in that. What about SPECIAL stats? I'll bet they are pretty fixed at character creation, with opportunities to increase them rare or never. But it was alluded that they can be increased, but not how.

Sure, Thrasher, sure :)

Exactly like you said.

Thrasher is never wrong - even when he's clearly wrong.

I get it ;)
 
I happened on this Youtuber, Noah Caldwell-Gervais, who about two years ago made a very thorough video on the Fallout games. The video is almost an hour long and technically iffy, but well worth a watch. Some deep insights there.

Noah Caldwell-Gervais is no Angry Joe or Total Biscuit. His latest video, on the Mad Max game is also very long and very good.
 
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The key problem with youtube videos is that they tend to last for too long.
99% of youtube game analyzing materials can be at least halved if not removed completely as noone would miss them.

Because of that, some of people, and I'm one of those, avoid youtube like a plague. Instead, we appreciate a good old classic textual article with, if needed, just a few pics.
An article that says more than a youtube vid in much shorter time.

You mentioned Angry Joe. That guy is aware of exactly the thing I mention so instead of boring irrelevant half an hour of chatty he spices videos up with a (cheesy but hell at least something) show. Because of that, even when I (and it's often) disagree on his views, I don't feel like wasted time on his vid.
 
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I do agree, Joxer. Youtubers are usually a waste of time, and I would have preferred a written article about Fallout by Noah Caldwell-Gervais. Text would have saved time, since reading is faster than listening.

However, Noah Caldwell-Gervais is not chatty. He actually has interesting things to say the whole time. Thus no need for the kind of showy antics Angry Joe uses to spice up his videos.
 
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This was posted by Myrthos back in June. Certainly worth a watch for fans of Fallout history as Mr Smiley is correct in that he does have some interesting and articulate points to make. He is far more "academic" and analytical than chatty.

http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29185

As for the character system in F4, it's disappointing for me. I mean, Bethesda first ripped out traits with F3, then Obsidian put them back in for NV, now Bethesda decides skills have to go as well in favor of this strangely simplistic sounding perk tiered system.
Some of the associations with particular statistics don't make a great deal of sense.

Ultimately the thin veneer of RPG-elements is worrying as the game is becoming more FPS heavy all of the time. Still, I haven't seen any footage of traditional role-playing and choices in action though, so there's always that to look forward to. Perhaps I just need to swallow my hopes for a genuine Fallout experience and simply enjoy the Bethesdian gloriousness of blowing things up without consequences. :)
 
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Thrasher said:
Like I said, perks only. Not much in way of stats. No ability levels.
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Judging by their writeup, it looks like perk ranks are somewhat like skill levels. I'm not really sure though that they've dumbed it down; if anything it seems somewhat the opposite. Instead of 13 skills, you now need to search through 70 different perks (and their associated skill-like ranks) to figure out how to develop the character you want. You then need to tailor the SPECIAL ratings to allow you to build that character.
 
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wow, so you can pick a perk that lets you intimidate people. Let me guess, at rank 2 you can bluff, and at rank 3 you can charm people? Awsum functionality there. :biggrin:
 
This chunked advancement to me isn't as natural as gradual improvement through numerical skill levels. I prefer something more like reality than magically receiving new superpowers. :)
 
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In reality, the progression is not forcefully gradual and one direction. For many things, it switches on from off: People cant do things and then they can do.
They do not grow better and better at not doing to end doing.

Bethesda is one model among others and compare to others in terms of reality.

Sacred_Path said:
wow, so you can pick a perk that lets you intimidate people. Let me guess, at rank 2 you can bluff, and at rank 3 you can charm people? Awsum functionality there. :biggrin:
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Not sure it works that way.
Bluff and charm also seem to be covered by other perks.
 
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Thrasher said:
This chunked advancement to me isn't as natural as gradual imptovement through numerical skill levels. I prefer something more like reality than magically receiving new superpowers. :)
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Because most RPGs give you new spells and innate powers in a natural way, right? ;)

I bet you've never enjoyed a game that asked you to pick a new power on level-up.

Any RPG fan that wants to be taken seriously will simply have to admit that he or she enjoys getting new powers when they level-up, and I simply refuse to believe that getting a perk every level is that much worse than getting a perk every two levels.

That's just flat out bullshit.

Find a new way to justify your presupposed dislike, please :)
 
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