Islam, majority religion in Belgium in decades ?

[jhwisner]

You're ignoring the point (not surprising as it renders your argument invalid). What the Scandinavian countries have accomplished with their tiny homogeneous populations has little to do with the problems of much larger nations and how they deal with the problems of their significantly less homogeneous populations. But, you know, keep blowing that horn buddy.

Interestingly and with the exception of Scottsdale Arizona, many of the lowest crime cities amongst US cities over 200,000 are anything but homogenous. It's a pretty commonly abused misunderstanding too - and historically in pretty disgusting ways which I am in no way suggesting anyone here is trying to mimic. Several of the top 10 safest US cities have no clear ethno-cultural majority (including number 4 - Freemont, CA.) This is not to say that inhomogeneity has some inverse relationship with crime either though - as the single safest of the top 10 is pretty damn homogenous.

Rather I'm suggesting that it's a red herring to point at the cultural homogeneity or inhomogeneity as being meaningfully related to crime. The common thread amongst those top 10 safest US cities (and most safe urban centers) is economic stability and some degree of prosperity in addition to availibility of education and the strength of local institutions. You know, the obvious stuff.

 

[zakhal]

US is not multicultural but multiethnic.

America has become strong not by embracing multiculturalism, but by assimilating the very best parts of many cultures into the one that we have today.

America is multiethnic, not multicultural

Im certain that multiethnism can work. There are lots of good examples.

But what about multiculturalism? Are there any successful examples?

If you want a bad example of multiculturalism throughout history you can look at balkans in europe. Conflict kickstarted there lead to two worlds wars (ww2 continuation of ww1). Latest conflict there was only 20 years ago. At times Balkan has been nicknamed the "powder keg" of europe.

Problems that we have had with immigrants is lack of integration. They dont learn the language, they dont respect our laws or customs, they dont study, they dont get a job, etc.

All that is thanks to the modern wellfare nanny-state that asks nothing from them but instead provides everything for free. If you moved to america say 100 years ago you had to learn the language and get a job, you were forced to integrate to survive. Not so anymore with nanny-state.

According to recents statistics in Finland up to 41% of somali-based immigrants aged 15-29 have no education and they dont study or go to job. In comparison the same statics are for russians 11%, chinese 12% and persians 10% (average for immigrant 20%).

Studying is free in Finland even in university. Hell they pay you money and guarantee cheap loans if you study so there is no excuse except attitude.

The fact that they have no education just shows that they didnt even try. Problem for many of course is that they dont speak finnish even if they were born here. In defense they say that they "value their own culture language a lot".

Its our responsibility to integrate them into the society. If they cant even speak anything but their native language then integration has failed horribly.

In 2009 there were 15,700[4] reported sexual offenses in Sweden, a rise of 8% compared to 2008, of which 5,940 were rape and sexual harassment (including exhibitionism) accounted for 7,590 reports.[1]

In April 2009, it was reported that sex crimes had increased by 58% over the previous ten years.[5] According to a 2009 European Union study, Sweden has one of the highest rates of reported rape in Europe.[6]

Whats wrong with Sweden? 58% raise in last ten years? What is the difference that explains such raise?

 

[JDR13]

US is not multicultural but multiethnic.

I think that depends on how a person defines multicultural.

The US is both multicultural and multiethnic. I can't think of another country that is more culturally diverse than the US.

 

[CrazyIrish]

I think that depends on how a person defines multicultural.

The US is both multicultural and multiethnic. I can't think of another country that is more culturally diverse than the US.

For sure. We have huge immigrant populations from all over the world as well as a variety of American subcultures that are quite different from one another.

 

[jhwisner]

For sure. We have huge immigrant populations from all over the world as well as a variety of American subcultures that are quite different from one another.

Yeah - people forget that how many American sub-cultures retain or develop their own unique customs and traditions. There are many Hmong, Vietnamese (non-Hmong), Korean etc. communities here which have retained their unique cultural identities and whose immigration took place in living memory - often in relatively extreme poverty or other desperate circumstances. Those are just more recent examples of non-christian, non-white and often destitute groups that immigrated without sublimating their original cultures but rather adapting them and later - in the case of the Hmong - rebuilding and regaining many aspects of their culture they had previously lost.

Another far older and even less assimilated examples would be the Pennsylvania Dutch (a bit of a misnomer.) While white and Christian, many of the more famous sub-groups of this category would seem far more foreign to many modern Americans than even many actual foreigners would. Some still do not readily adopt english after hundreds of years and/or use modern technology.

 

[Pladio]

I would add the Amish, the orthodox Jewish community in NY for example, the Greeks in some places, the Italians, the new African diaspora, such as Nigerians forming their own churches (have a look at RCCG in the US especially Texas).

These are but a few examples that come to mind but there would be many more.

Edit: just realised u said the Amish already.

 

[JemyM]

Whats wrong with Sweden? 58% raise in last ten years? What is the difference that explains such raise?

Massive campaigns in order to get women to report rape, attempts of rape or sexual harassment or sexual offense. No matter what country in the "west"; if you both empower the women in the same level as in Sweden and promote reporting sex offenses, your quota of reports will skyrocket. Most of the reports may indeed be valid.

 

[Ubereil]

Massive campaigns in order to get women to report rape, attempts of rape or sexual harassment or sexual offense. No matter what country in the "west"; if you both empower the women in the same level as in Sweden and promote reporting sex offenses, your quota of reports will skyrocket. Most of the reports may indeed be valid.

It would also be interesting to see how many of the reports are directed at non-westerners.

Übereil

 

[xSamhainx]

Female mutilation, yet another example of how the wonderful traditions of Islam are so compatible with modern Europe.

 

[zahratustra]

So, you are saying that genital mutilation is "tradition of Islam"?

 

[vurt]

It would also be interesting to see how many of the reports are directed at non-westerners.

Übereil

In Finland 34% of the rapes were commited by immigrants. That's quite a lot when they're only 1,3% of the population in Finland. Iraqies seems to be over-represented in their statistics (only 0,1% of the population)

(source: http://hbl.fi/nyheter/2012-04-26/var-tredje-valdtakt-begas-av-utlanning )

 

[xSamhainx]

So, you are saying that genital mutilation is "tradition of Islam"?

It's a tradition within Muslim culture, just as other wonderful and euro-friendly thing such as honor kiling, and burkas are. Like them, it's not practiced by all, but enough to make people sit up and take notice. People who arent blinded by their liberal religion of "multi-culturism".

Young girls are having their clitoris removed, destroying part of their identity as a woman, well-being, and personal enjoyment for the rest of their life. That's part of their cultural practice, and now part of yours as well, Mr Multi-Cultural.

 

[Ubereil]

In Finland 34% of the rapes were commited by immigrants.

34 % of the rapes the police concluded were rapes. Not the reports, merely the reports that got further than a report. Which, considering how often rape cases end up being word against word, might be due to immigrants in general and non-western immigrants in particular don't seem as trustworthy as the locals. The local lads simply get more breaks than an immigrant (especially due to the whole "immigrants have a medieval view on women" trope).

That could be part of the explanation, you know. Just like the whole "poorly educated parents and a poor education of their own" thing I highlighted earlier.

It's a tradition within Muslim culture...

Just like circumsition is a tradition within Christian culture.

Besides, if you'd have to be born a woman in a muslim family and you don't want to be circumcized, hope you're born to a muslim family in the west. This is where the odds are the highest it'll get stopped.

Übereil

 

[vurt]

might be due to immigrants in general and non-western immigrants in particular don't seem as trustworthy as the locals. The local lads simply get more breaks than an immigrant

I'd say they usually get away with it easier than, for example, a native swede would.. Mainly because we don't have the "race card" or "culture card" to pull…

Here's a good example:

Girl gang who kicked woman in the head while yelling 'kill the white slag' freed

You think a gang of white christian girls would be freed of something similar? Not very likely.

It's the same bullshit when immigrants commits rapes they just need to cry out in media a bit. We're already seeing articles about how we should feel sorry for the immigrant rapists, that they can't help it and that they should under no circumstances be deported because of it. It's been a trend for a while now, how the victim is neglected and the perpetrator gets a pat on the back and usually a very mild sentence.

 

[zahratustra]

It's a tradition within Muslim culture, just as other wonderful and euro-friendly thing such as honor kiling, and burkas are. Like them, it's not practiced by all, but enough to make people sit up and take notice. People who arent blinded by their liberal religion of "multi-culturism".

You really should do some basic research before spouting nonsense:
"Asim Zaki Mustafa argues that the common attribution of the procedure to Islam is unfair because it is a much older phenomenon.[21] While individual Muslims, Christians, and Jews practise FGM,[22] it is not a requirement of any religious observance. Judaism requires circumcision for boys, but does not allow it for girls.[23] Islamic scholars have said that, while male circumcision is a sunna, or religious obligation, female circumcision is not required, and several have issued a fatwa against Type III FGM.[24]"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation

 

[xSamhainx]

Uberil- do you know what a clitoris is? Cliterectomy and removing foreskin (something which ive had done and enjoy a normal sex life) are two completely different things and done for two entirely different reasons. Im not going to explain, look it up.

I didnt say its a religious requirement, its a barbaric practice in the muslim world. I dont give a fuck why they do it - they do it, and its just one of the messed up things they subject their women to. Again, male foreskin circumcision is nothing compared to it.

I suppose we are gonna hear from you now how wearing a yarmulka is like wearing a burka.

 

[Corwin]

from Ubs-"Just like circumsition is a tradition within Christian culture."

It is a tradition in Jewish culture, NOT Christian!! Please don't display your ignorance in public; it's embarrassing.

 

[zahratustra]

errr maybe you need to brush up on what "irony" is Corwin? I have read Ubereil's comment as meaning that circumcision is practiced by some Christians just like FGM is practiced by some Muslims. All what you did is to prove his point.

 

[Corwin]

No, his comment is clear and wrong. While some Christian men may be circumcised (often at birth in certain hospitals) it is NOT and NEVER has been a part of Christian belief, doctrine, or tradition!!

 

[Jhari]

I didnt say its a religious requirement, its a barbaric practice in the muslim world. I dont give a fuck why they do it - they do it, and its just one of the messed up things they subject their women to. Again, male foreskin circumcision is nothing compared to it.

I suppose we are gonna hear from you now how wearing a yarmulka is like wearing a burka.

I don't think it's religious, I think it's cultural.

EDIT:

And that's the big issue I have with this thread, and this train of thought in general. Religion and culture are NOT interchangeable, although they can be intertwined. The problem most people have with immigrants is a function of cultural differences, not religious ones.