Mass Effect - Beyond Gender Choice @ GameCritics

[Alrik Fassbauer]

As a sidenote : I don't like stereotypes at all. I have far better options in my mind than just stereotypes of characters.

Not all are great, I admit, but I've learned to know enough people to be able to develop some non-clichéd characters from scratch.

If I want depth, then I visit an HSP forum. It's all there. Imho.

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Not all that much, actually. In Germany, life expectancy at birth for men is 77 years or so, for women, 82. That's less than 10% difference.

If we look at life expectancy at 60, which will have gotten most purely lifestyle-related deaths out of the system, the difference is even smaller: for males, 80.8 years, for females, 84.6.

(Source: Wolfram Alpha.)

These statistics are new to me, or I have always learned different ones.

 

[DArtagnan]

That's good advice, but not always easy to follow. Unless you're George Clooney (or, perhaps, DArtagnan? ), you'll find yourself having to deal with a good deal of rejection, which isn't fun and will chip away at your sense of self-worth. You have to find some way of dealing with that, or it will eventually get you down and make you give up. And that ain't easy.

There's a good reason I didn't say easy, because the simplest things can be hard.

Complicated - however, I don't think it is, unless that's what you make it. But that doesn't mean it's easy to do what provides you with the best result.

I'm very fortunate, in certain ways, because I'm generally unconcerned about what other people think of me. But there are always two sides of any coin, and it's not easy being indifferent - it's just another way of interacting socially.

It's never been clear to me, but I tend to get a lot of respect BECAUSE I don't really care. For that reason alone, and that disturbs me - because what respect have I deserved by not really caring?

In any case, it's all a shield - because underneath I'm a sensitive person. This means that those people I DO let inside, have the capacity to hurt me a lot, and I'm not at all comfortable in those situations. My ego won't allow me to change, but I certainly don't feel like I'm in control of my emotions when I start truly caring for someone. Once they're inside, I'm the most sensitive person in the world, and that's not amusing.

So, it's never really "easy" - but that's life.

 

[Grandor Dragon]

Having enjoyed Mass Effect, I must say that I also agree with the article. I think it is actually treating the game with a lot of respect. It says that many issues were handled very well, with the *exception* of sex and gender, which was treated in a very clichéd and sexist way.

 

[Rithrandil]

It's never been clear to me, but I tend to get a lot of respect BECAUSE I don't really care. For that reason alone, and that disturbs me - because what respect have I deserved by not really caring?

I've received that too. It's because people do have some odd respect for people with the "guts" to step outside of the norm, even if they want to punch your face in at the same time.

 

[DArtagnan]

I've received that too. It's because people do have some odd respect for people with the "guts" to step outside of the norm, even if they want to punch your face in at the same time.

I fear you may be right, and I'm sure some people displaying this kind of "respect" really don't understand that it's not particularly worthy of respect - which is why they may have ambivalent feelings about it.

In my opinion, respect should be earned by action - though it's hard to say what KIND of action should be respected.

I suppose there's something good about being yourself, but I'd prefer it if it wasn't anything special. We're human beings, and we're flawed. That goes for us all, and just because I can accept that about myself without feelings of shame - it shouldn't result in special recognition.

I don't even want to get into what draws attention from the opposite sex, but I've never been able to harness this "power" very well. Sure, I've gotten my share of attention based on this indifference and self-confidence, but I find that people who genuinely don't care about others - as opposed to it being a shield in my own case - get a lot more attention from females than I do.

That's just sad, really.

 

[Rithrandil]

I think it may be because people respect honesty, and by 'doing your own thing' you're being extremely honest, even to your own detriment. I think people consider your (or my, or whoever's) ability to step outside "the norm", act in the way you feel is correct, and accept the consequences as an "action" worthy of respect. I agree with your assessment, though - I'd rather gain respect for what comes as a result of this willingness to step away from the norm, as opposed to getting it for stepping outside of the norm.

But people who are utterly and totally honest? They get screwed. Maybe that's why they get a lot of respect?

 

[fatBastard()]

I read the article again trying to see things from a different perspective than my initial not-so-objective take on it and noticed from some of the comments a couple of things that helped cast a different light on the article. First off, Alex is the female version of the gender neutral name and her main hobbies are gaming and feminism.

While some of her points are indeed valid, I still think she's putting too much emphasis on minor issues ... but then again, I've never been able to understand women in the first place, so perhaps the case may be that I'M putting too LITTLE emphasis on something that SHOULDN'T be a minor issue.

 

[DArtagnan]

But people who are utterly and totally honest? They get screwed. Maybe that's why they get a lot of respect?

One would wish that was so, but I have a more cynical opinion - I'm afraid.

Now, I don't claim to be "utterly and totally" honest, but that's certainly my ideal and what I strive for in all things.

I do get respect from those who realise that's who I really am, but I think most people don't really buy it - and in fact the VAST majority seem to be EXTREMELY sceptical that such is the case.

Frankly, I think people detect my personality as one they can't really manipulate with because I don't care about what they have to say - so rather than genuine respect, it's more like "I should find someone else to manipulate" and the idea that not caring is kind of an ideal to strive for. Like I'm cool because of it, which is not only a misunderstanding - because in many ways I DO care, I just refuse to feel bad because people don't approve - but it's also sad because even if I didn't care, it would be anything but cool.

In conclusion, they respect me for being kinda like a bastard - because that's what they think I am. Someone who doesn't give a shit and as such must be "special".

 

[JDR13]

Just curious, does this thread still have anything to do with Mass Effect?

 

[Prime Junta]

I've received that too. It's because people do have some odd respect for people with the "guts" to step outside of the norm, even if they want to punch your face in at the same time.

Not me. Fear, though, is a sometimes acceptable substitute.

 

[Rithrandil]

Not me. Fear, though, is a sometimes acceptable substitute.

You'd totally be scared of me in real life. I'm a totally badass dangerous dude.

But seriously, I say exactly what is on my mind virtually all of the time - it gets me into a lot of trouble. I tend to find the whole societal mask crap boring and a waste of my time.

 

[skavenhorde]

Sorry, friend — but it is a sexist cliché. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree about that.

Again, I disagree on all counts. IMO he did a good job of analyzing the stereotyping underlying the game, and of arguing his point — and it says a great deal about our culture that such tired old sexist stereotypes still hold so much attraction for so many people.

Ok, no big deal. Just thought I'd throw that out there and see what you thought.

I'm not really sure what is sexist anymore because the lines seemed to be blurred between sexy/attractiveness and sexist. Aren't males supposed to be protective of their females and vice versa? I mean, isn't that programmed into us from birth? It's basic, but it doesn't mean it's wrong or sexist. Both men and women fall into this catagory. I'm sure you'll disagree with me on this as well, but that's ok. It's not really something I need to defend anymore because there is nothing to defend. We are all different after all.

Anyways, I still think fantasy and reality are two seperate issues, but we don't have to agree on this either One is for your imagination and playing on your more basic instincts(…uggghhh…I really can't think of a better way to put it other than the title of that movie) and the other is for who we really are when things matter.

Although I do agree with you on more complex characters. That it never a bad thing, but I won't start a "down with sexism" article because the characters are cliche or have tight fitting clothes

@fatbastard Dude, dont' stress being honest. I am way too honest all the time here and everyone still acknowledges my existance Great thing about forums is that if you want to be truthful and honest, you can be. No faces staring back at you. Sorta theraputic sometimes and sometimes I feel like you and want to bang my head against the wall. I've literally had anxiaty attacks because of some of the things I've said here before I thought about it.

Also, dude, don't give up. If I can find someone, then literally anyone can. I had the same problems as you. I soo wished I could just jump past the dating stuff and just get into a relationship. I was never any good at dating or even normal friend relationships. Online relationships are a different matter entirely. I found Sarah on ICQ. One of those random person searches and got lucky. She was in Taiwan and I was in the states. After talking for over two years, I hopped a plane and got the hell out of California. I've never been happier in my life.

Although I didn't find that right person till after I left the country the point is I did find someone. I hope this helps. I know it's just hollow words, but seriously if you don't give up, things have a way of working out in the end. Sometimes you just have to do something out of the blue.

 

[Prime Junta]

@fB: Also, dating isn't all it's cracked up to be. There are lots of really nice women out there, but very few of them will actually be compatible: with most of them, you'll be driving each other nuts in no time flat. IOW, even if you're good at initiating romantic relationships with few preliminaries, your odds of finding yourself in the right one that way are no better than by nerdier means.

I must've had about two dozen sexual and/or romantic relationships, lasting between about 24 hours and about four years, before finding the one that really, truly clicked on all levels. That emotional rollercoaster is a rough ride, and I assure you that you're not missing out on much if you manage to avoid it. It's too bad you can't just cherry-pick the good bits...

As it happens, I eventually met my wife through the Internet, and we corresponded for six months before even meeting IRL.

 

[fatBastard()]

Thanks for the advice guys, but when I said my social skills have deteriorated into nothing it more or less applies all aspects of it. By the time the habit had turned into a way of life it was still years before chatting became mainstream and social networks started popping up everywhere (it is now 17 years ago I turned my back to the whole socializing show), so I've never been a participant in that area either. Heck, I don't even have a face book profile.

If it hadn't been for the RPG material here at the Watch that made me participate in gaming related discussions, I never would have posted anything here in the first place, least of all personal stuff. In other words, I'm no more comfortable socializing in cyberspace than in real life. One might therefore say that I gave up many years ago.

However, as I said before I knew what the consequences would be and apart from the occasional lonely night I'm perfectly fine with my choice. I get to spend my time and money on whatever *I* want to do.

Of course that has also turned me into an incredibly self focused person where I'm only accountable for myself and my own schedule so even IF I should someday choose to get back in the game I would have to completely relearn how to coexist with another person (besides my mother).

No, better let sleeping dogs lie.

 

[zakhal]

Just curious, does this thread still have anything to do with Mass Effect?

I doubt it ever had in the first place.

 

[Prime Junta]

No, better let sleeping dogs lie.

Nothing wrong with a life of solitary contemplation. Some people have even been sainted for it.

 

[DArtagnan]

The thing is to not suppress doubt, if it's there. If it's not, then I guess it's all good.

Life can be unrelentingly hard and cold, and if you try to defy it by becoming hard and cold yourself, well, it will likely not reward any kind of abstinence - but rather just add to that lonely feeling with its indifference.

 

[aries100]

To me, it is defintely news and very good and great news indeed that the Asari have three stages of life, Maiden, Mother, and Matriarch. I take it they are all very well represented within the game, these three stages? And why is this good news, to me?

Well, it is, simply because in today's society most women do not see the Matriarch (the crone) as an ideal; they want to stay young forever, and so they try everything they can to hinder the passage of time, to stop their bodies from deteriorating, without knowing that they, too, shall die - someday. The Matriach Asari shows a woman who has come to terms with the passings of time, I guess?
Today's women do not see the role of Matriarch (or crone) as acceptable at all...

The Asari (the blue chicks) are an all 'female' race, at least seen from our human perspective, but not from theirs, I guess? I think in one of Ursula K. Le Guin's books, men have breasts? and woman have penises? And maybe men can give birth, too? Perhaps it was there that the writer's at Bioware found inspiration for this 'female' race.

Yes, the Asari can mate with another intelligent species through a mind-melt of sorts. And this secure more Asari being made. However, the term 'male' and 'female' may be a moot point, here since the Asari does not mate through gender specifik means e.g. sex i.e. a male sperm fertilizing a female egg. The Asari are in fact, neutrum, genderless, even if their appearance seem to be what we consider to be female.

As for the Consort and the Strippers in the bar, if you don't like this, just don't visit there, don't talk to the Consort at all, if you don't want the services provided there. It is optional...

And again, strictly speaking the Asari are not an all-female race... That would mean they had a concept of what it is to be 'male' - the don't - not as far as I know, anyway.

 

[DArtagnan]

Well, it's fair to note that Asari live for quite a long time - and as such, it should be less uncomfortable for them to "resign themselves" to the final stage.

The antagonistic Matriarch you encounter in the game seems to have lost none of her sexual appeal, so maybe that's another reason why it's easier for them to make the transition.

I think unless you've tried living life as a female, and especially an elderly female - you should be careful talking about the resignation from youth to old age as something one should be able to accept as "coming to terms with the passage of time". Not to suggest that's what you're saying directly, but it certainly seems to be what you're implying.

Beyond that, being an all-female society, there's no distinction between sexes - and elderly women are apparently the most powerful in their societal structure. This would make the transition even easier.

It's easy from a male perspective to downplay the importance of youth in the female gender - because we're attractive - or so it would seem, based on other factors - like our capacity for generating revenue and maintaining positions of perceived power.

I think the wish to be desirable and attractive is universal - and the male is no less "desperate" to maintain that, once achived, throughout life.