Mobs in UK

[hishadow]

Any UK residents here who can shed some light on the situation?

 

[JDR13]

Damn British... trying to act American.

 

[dteowner]

Saw on Yahoo that there are "counter-mobs" now, with groups of people brandishing brooms and generally cleaning up the destruction.

 

[Zloth]

It sounds like there are undercurrents of discontent but it also sounds like those undercurrents are pretty deep down under a layer of "hey, I can get stuff free!"

 

[Maylander]

It's what happens when too many go uneducated and unemployed, because the government simply does not invest enough in proper eduction. This has been a long time coming in the UK, as there really hasn't been enough focus on educating the poor.

Let's hope they manage to clear this up as soon as possible - there has already been a confirmed death in the riots, which is one too many.

 

[zakhal]

It's what happens when too many go uneducated and unemployed, because the government simply does not invest enough in proper eduction. This has been a long time coming in the UK, as there really hasn't been enough focus on educating the poor.

Let's hope they manage to clear this up as soon as possible - there has already been a confirmed death in the riots, which is one too many.

One english doctor writes in one of his essays about english lower class and their educational problems. He says the problem lies in the culture in which education is considered unimportant.

Those who try to study live in constant fear of getting beated hard because they "try to be different".

England, but it takes a special kind of perversity for students at the high school situated 400 yards from my hospital to say to one of their colleagues, who took an overdose because of the constant bullying to which she was subject: You're stupid because you're clever.

What did they mean by this apparent paradox? They meant that anyone who tried hard at school and performed well was wasting his time, when he could have been engaged in the real business of life, such as truanting in the park or wandering downtown. Furthermore, there was menace in their words: If you don't mend your ways and join us, they were saying, we'll beat you up.

This was no idle threat: I often meet people in their twenties and thirties in my hospital practice who gave up at school under such duress and subsequently realize that they have missed an opportunity which, had it been taken, would have changed the whole course of their lives much for the better.

And those who attend the few schools in the city which maintain very high academic standards risk a beating if they venture to where the poor white stupids live.

In the last year, I have treated two boys in the emergency room after such a beating, and two others who have taken overdoses for fear of receiving one at the hands of their neighbors.

Education has always been a minority interest in England. The English have generally preferred to keep the bloom of their ignorance intact and on the whole have succeeded remarkably well

To call someone clever has never been an unequivocal compliment in England, You're stupid because you're clever.

Very few of the 16 yearolds whom I meet as patients can read and write with facility; they do not even regard my question as to whether they can read and write as in the least surprising or insulting.

I cannot recall meeting a 16yearold white from the public housing estates which are near my hospital who could multiply nine by seven (I do not exaggerate). Even three by seven often defeats them. One boy of 17 told me, "We didn't get that far." This, after 12 years of compulsory education (or should I say, attendance at school).

Thus are the young condemned to live in an eternal present, a present which merely exists, without connection to a past which might explain it or to a future which might develop from it. They believe themselves deprived, because the only people with whom they can compare themselves are those who appear in advertisements or on television.

Everything is reduced to a mere contest of wills, and so the child learns that all restraint is but an arbitrary imposition from someone or something bigger and stronger than himself. The ground is laid for a bloodyminded intolerance of any authority whatever. The world is thus a world of permanently inflamed egos, trying to impose their wills on one another.

The lamentable fact is that a considerable proportion of the English population is simply unaware of the need for education. It seems stuck with the Victorian idea that England is by right and divine providence the workshop of the world, that Englishmen by virtue of their place of birth come into the world knowing all that it is necessary for them to know

I have had the following conversation on innumerable occasions with young men of about 20 who have been unemployed since leaving school, and whose general educational level is outlined above:
“Have you thought of improving your education?”
“No.”
“Why not?”
“There's no point. There are no jobs.“
"Could there be any other reason to get educated?"
'No." (This after puzzlement as to what I could possibly mean.)

We Don't Want No Education by Theodore Dalrymple, City Journal Winter 1995
http://www.city-journal.org/html/5_1_oh_to_be.html

How do people end up in a situation where its preferrable to be a social misfit rather than be a part of the society?

In his writings one of the blaims he puts on intelligentsia that considers "any culture to be an acceptable culture" even a self-destructing one that victimises itself, blaims government for everything and preaches against education.

Thats actually what these people stealing from shops are saying. They are blaming the rich people and goverment while running away with new plasma TVs.

Not sure if it has stucked but in the 90s the brits had some special names for these people
ned (=non-educated delinquent)
chav (=council housed and violent)

Urban dictionary says the following about the terms

Ned

Neds, much to the contrary of common belief, are not purely found within the Glasgow area, but litter most parks and wooded areas of Scotland drinking "Buckfast" and other get-pissed-quick drinks.

The word "ned" does not stand for "non-educated-delinquent" as nowadays, neds can range from the educated to the idiots. Mainly, they are idiots. Neds do wear tracksuits and trainers and caps tilted very high upwards and gold rings.

The Female ned, however, can be identified in two forms, The Manly Nedette and the Nedette. The nedette can also be known as a "Slut" "whore" or "person wearing very few clothes and lots of gold jewlery". The Manly Nedette is a female who wears tracksuits and trainers and caps tilted very high upwards and gold rings. A common trademark of the ned is trackies tucked into socks.

Chav

Emerging British subculture which is quickly becoming an epidemic. Chavs can be found the length and breadth of the country, hanging around any junk food outlet, off licence or just hanging around the streets, where they pass the time by vandalising property, drinking cheap cider, shouting abuse at passers by and terrorising old people.

The origins of the word itself are unclear and there are a few theories, perhaps all of them correct. Nonetheless, the current criteria for being a chav applies as laid out in this dictionary and no doubt, as culture dumbs-down even more, the definition will need to be updated.

Chavs will no doubt eventually, despite their in-bred lack of intelligence, cotton-on to the fact that burberry and it’s current associations foster great hatred and negativity amongst the majority of the population. This factor however, could backfire, as Chavs could consider the perpetuation of hatred and negativity as a great contribution to humanity, even if it is directed towards themselves from others.

 

[hishadow]

Anthony (A.M.) Daniels (aka Theodore Dalrymple) seems fair and balanced. He seems to be one of these people who want to "save" Europe from cultural decline. Ugh.

ed: after the shootings here in Norway I now do background checks on bloggers and opinionators. For medical opinions I prefer pibbur.

 

[hishadow]

It's what happens when too many go uneducated and unemployed, because the government simply does not invest enough in proper eduction. This has been a long time coming in the UK, as there really hasn't been enough focus on educating the poor.

Let's hope they manage to clear this up as soon as possible - there has already been a confirmed death in the riots, which is one too many.

Besides education, I remember an interview with a long-time fan of Tottenham who mentioned that people from a poor background could no longer afford to follow their football team. It might seem like an insignificant connection but I think sports events are a great pastime for social cohesion.

 

[zakhal]

Culture that idolises criminals and thinks stupid is smart and vice versa cant be nothing but decline. Such culture cant survive in long run because its self-destructing (and totally reliant on others). Thats propably the only future for it.

This black mayor (Seriously - Mr Nutter??) in Philadelphia who had to declare curfew said this in monday:

PHILADELPHIA — Mayor Michael A. Nutter, telling marauding black youths “you have damaged your own race,” imposed a tougher curfew Monday in response to the latest “flash mob” — spontaneous groups of teens who attack people at random on the streets of the city’s tourist and fashionable shopping districts.

“Take those God-darn hoodies down, especially in the summer,” Mr. Nutter, the city’s third black mayor, said in an angry lecture aimed at black teens. “Pull your pants up and buy a belt ‘cause no one wants to see your underwear or the crack of your butt.”

“If you walk into somebody’s office with your hair uncombed and a pick in the back, and your shoes untied, and your pants half down, tattoos up and down your arms and on your neck, and you wonder why somebody won’t hire you? They don’t hire you ‘cause you look like you’re crazy,” the mayor said. “You have damaged your own race.”

Philadelphia mayor talks tough to black teenagers after 'flash mobs' - Washington Times

The origins of saggin come from prisons:

Lee D. Baker, Dean of Academic Affairs at Duke University, states that it is widely believed that sagging was adopted from the United States prison system where belts are prohibited.[3] Belts are sometimes prohibited to avoid suicide by hanging oneself, or to avoid being used as a weapon in fights.[4][5] The style was later popularized by hip-hop artists in the 1990s.[4] It has since become a symbol of freedom and cultural awareness among many youths.[6]

Is it goverments fault that somone cant get a job because he likes to imitate criminals (flash his asscrack)?

I dont believe in black-white thinking so surely there are other reasons too but I think this is one of them. Somone mentioned Thatchers policies as another.

I used to think that all culture is acceptable but I guess I have never visited a real ghetto. And if you dig history surely you can find lots self-destructing cultures or subcultures. What would be a good example? Easter island? Mayans? Communism? Stalinism? Anarchist punk-culture?

 

[ChienAboyeur]

The declaration by this mayor is typical of the current political system.

As arbitrators of a situation, politicians usually lean where the balance of power is already established.
This is another example.

What is stupid is to claim that these people would be hired if they did not fit the picture told by this politician. In a hiring process, the power lies with the hirer. So this politician does what this political system leads him to, blame the powerless, blame the disenfranchised, blame the downtrodden.

This mayor even ends his story with that damaging their own race. Another pure non sense. But valuable for the politician as it allows him to keep pretending being something else than a politician typical to this political system.

A black person is not hired. This black person has proper hair, does not wear tatoos etc. This person does not fit the picture given by this mayor. This mayor invites this person to look elsewhere than to the peculiar situation. The failure should be due to other black people who had damaged their own race because they wear this or that.
And the ball can be kept rolling for a long time. If all the black people living in this country did not fit the mayor's picture, well, it could be Blacks in Brazil, it could be Blacks in France, it could be Blacks in any African country.

It is a typical expression of the political institutions as they are thought today. It will bring anger as people who conform to the mayor's speech will get nothing more. The political institutions lead to follow the path of the least resistance, blaming and acting against people who are the easiest to blame and act against.

Considering the limited scope of this declaration, that's missing the bigger picture. If this was limited to those specific cases, well, it would be nothing.

 

[zakhal]

What is stupid is to claim that these people would be hired if they did not fit the picture told by this politician. In a hiring process, the power lies with the hirer. So this politician does what this political system leads him to, blame the powerless, blame the disenfranchised, blame the downtrodden.

For one thing I know I couldnt get a job if I dressed like a criminal. Persons outlook does matter when applying to job. I know one who didnt get it because his hair was too long. Its just how things are. Blaming the goverment for it wont make any difference.

Also you must remember the mayor is talking to people who randomly attack citizens in the streets. What are you suppose to say to them that they will listen?

 

[ChienAboyeur]

Dressing like a criminal? Certain kind of criminals enjoy wearing suits.
Dressing codes are just that, dressing codes.

Its just how things are.

That is exactly that, in a hiring process, the power lies with the hirer. The hirer sets the criteria. If a hirer does not want to hire because a person is black, that is what happens.
Claiming that people could change their skin colour just through dressing codes is stupid.

This mayor addressed these people? I was under the impression this politician addressed anyone else but these people. His speech is tailored to address other people than these people. It addressed other black people who do not dress like that and it addressed non black people.

 

[zakhal]

Dressing like a criminal? Certain kind of criminals enjoy wearing suits.
Dressing codes are just that, dressing codes.

Dressing is part of culture and you if you dress like those that idolise criminals and other stupidity then its your own fault if some employers might think twice before hiring you. Job is not a place where you can always dress up as anything you want. Culture is no excuse.

A bit edgy comparison but I wouldnt eat regulary in a restaurant where cooks and waiters with dirty uncomped hair walk in underwear and flash their asscracks.

That is exactly that, in a hiring process, the power lies with the hirer. The hirer sets the criteria. If a hirer does not want to hire because a person is black, that is what happens.
Claiming that people could change their skin colour just through dressing codes is stupid.

You think skin colour is the only reason why people might not get hired? If employer doesnt want to hire a person the reason is always color and not the fact that he is dressed like this in the job interview?

This mayor addressed these people? I was under the impression this politician addressed anyone else but these people. His speech is tailored to address other people than these people. It addressed other black people who do not dress like that and it addressed non black people.

Exactly. He hopes that those who still have some sense dont end up like those loosers in the streets.

 

[ChienAboyeur]

These guys do not fit the depiction. Either they are employed and then talking about causes of unemployment is non sense or they are unemployed and speaking of a dressing code they do not adopt is non sense.

The dressing code is a non factor.
These guys adopting another dressing code will not get them to be hired. The problem is elsewhere. It simply shows that these peple are no longer willing to believe into drivel, they are outside the range of the speech produced by the current political institutions.It is known and by adopting another dressing code, they show they know, which might be the annoying point. It will be better if they could pretending they do not know.

As to the assertion on culture and self destruction, it does not look like grounded into reality. Examples would be welcome because historically, the US culture has idolized criminals and it does not seem to be declining at this present point but well alive.

 

[hishadow]

The police have arrested upwards thousand people in total.

Looters shown at this website.

 

[blatantninja]

Dressing like a criminal? Certain kind of criminals enjoy wearing suits.
Dressing codes are just that, dressing codes.

That is exactly that, in a hiring process, the power lies with the hirer. The hirer sets the criteria. If a hirer does not want to hire because a person is black, that is what happens.
Claiming that people could change their skin colour just through dressing codes is stupid.

This mayor addressed these people? I was under the impression this politician addressed anyone else but these people. His speech is tailored to address other people than these people. It addressed other black people who do not dress like that and it addressed non black people.

The way you dress, rightly or wrongly, effects the first impression someone has of you. If you dress like a thug, you are putting yourself in a hole vs anyone else you are competing for a job for.

There is an old saying: Dress for the job you want, not the job you have.

Changing the dress habits of these people isn't going to solve all their problems overnight, but its part of an overall change in attitude that is needed to change their communities for the better.

 

[zakhal]

These guys do not fit the depiction. Either they are employed and then talking about causes of unemployment is non sense or they are unemployed and speaking of a dressing code they do not adopt is non sense.

The dressing code is a non factor.
These guys adopting another dressing code will not get them to be hired. The problem is elsewhere. It simply shows that these peple are no longer willing to believe into drivel, they are outside the range of the speech produced by the current political institutions.It is known and by adopting another dressing code, they show they know, which might be the annoying point. It will be better if they could pretending they do not know.

Are those the same people we talked about aka those who randomly attack people on the street?

As to the assertion on culture and self destruction, it does not look like grounded into reality. Examples would be welcome because historically, the US culture has idolized criminals and it does not seem to be declining at this present point but well alive.

There are many characteristics to self-destructive culture and I doubt the US culture includes them all. Even if there are negatives are positives too so its able to keep itself float. The real self-destructive cultures are those that respect mainly negative values.

 

[hishadow]

Changing the dress habits of these people isn't going to solve all their problems overnight, but its part of an overall change in attitude that is needed to change their communities for the better.

"Get a haircut and get a job!" I remember being told that a lot.

Concerning the US, I have this impression that there is greater social acceptance (even culture) for being poor there?

 

[zakhal]

"Get a haircut and get a job!" I remember being told that a lot.

Concerning the US, I have this impression that there is greater social acceptance (even culture) for being poor there?

The poor people living in ghetto's perhaps but I doubt they represent the US as whole. Atleast I hope so. Different culture for different classes/groups of people.

There has been riots in US too. I.E LA riots.

The 1992 Los Angeles Riots or South Central Riots, also known as the 1992 Los Angeles Civil Unrest[1][2][3] and Rodney King Uprising,[4] were sparked on April 29, 1992, when a jury acquitted three white and one Mexican Los Angeles Police Department officers accused in the videotaped beating of black motorist Rodney King following a high-speed pursuit. Thousands of people in the Los Angeles area rioted over the six days following the verdict.[5]

Widespread looting, assault, arson and murder occurred, and property damages topped roughly $1 billion. In all, 53 people died during the riots and thousands more were injured

 

[GothicGothicness]

Well, get a hair cut and get a job? how do I get a job if I don't have an education, and even a lot of people with an education is struggling to find one?