My rig has herpes

[xSamhainx]

I would go XP purrsonally, I still hear nothing but complaints from people around me about Vista!

As for the other stuff, I have no idea really. My Dell 84oo has went so well (2 years), that I havent needed to buy a new rig, just tossed a new card on and added a gig of ram. My older one is hooked up to my TV, still going. Had no problems with them here, just extremely hard cases to modify if you ever want to. I never went XPS, Ive always just bought a regular desktop system with a big processor and configured it with good stuff, it was way cheaper to do it that way. The only difference to me seemed to be the look of the thing!

I would get the biggest card possible tho, that's just what Ive always done. Better to be ahead of the times than behind in that dept. I polly wouldnt SLI tho, I'm too cheap to go that far.

Nowadays, I think theyve done things beyond the superficial such as improvements in FSB and cooling (finally, that's the case modding that i was talking about that Ive had to do myself up to this point). The liquid cooling will destroy small bank accounts tho so Id prolly still go fan cooled. I just fiddled with a "gimme everything" system on there and had it up to like 7k in no time!

They stand by their stuff tho, i'm the de-facto tech geek here at work, and weve had some warrantied stuff go bad, and we had the replacement the next day.

as for free security software, I exclusively use and recommend Zonealarm firewall, and AVG antivirus. Alot of other security software will attempt to take over your entire PC seemingly, but neither one of them do anything more than their job. No popups, no begging, no bullshit. Both troublefree, non-invasive, and they work! For free ='.'=

 

[magerette]

...
...
It depends on the individual system and series but those are basically the issues you could at least theoretically encounter when buying a Dell since those are rather typical problems of systems that are made by the large OEMs....

These systems aren't inherently bad. They are usually great "as is". The problems can arise when/if you want to change or upgrade stuff but if you aren't into that at all then you'd probably never even notice the restrictions that come with a Dell or any other OEM's system.

Thanks for the explanation, Moriendor. I can see that with the knowledge and expertise, you could build an open-ended system of your own that you could tailor to your personal needs both present and future. Probably much cheaper, bang for buck-wise as well.

Unfortunately, I would just make something that blew up. Homeland Security would be bashing down my door, and I'd be dragged off off to jail without due process for suicide computer bombing.

That said, and more or less on topic for dte, the Dell I have does have some limited upgrade potential; room for another two memory sticks and SLI graphics if I want to spend the money on two cards, which I won't unless and until I have to. You're completely right, though--I don't think anything generic will work, just whatever "brands" Dell has got hooked up with to use in their systems.

 

[xSamhainx]

the funny thing about a pc going south, especially in the workplace, is what often starts out as the unspeakable horror often turns out really well in the end. Like here at work for example, I was stuck on a horrible pc for years. The thing finally died one day, I was all upset at the inconvenience and trouble, and wham I get this awesome new pc.

Ive seen it time and time again. We pull out the electro-shock paddles and perform various transplants, doing all we can to save some pc, yet it dies nonetheless. The person has a new (or at least better) one two days later, wondering what all the fighting was for!
Part of it is setting the thing up I guess, it is a pain to get everything reset and all that. We like to just leave things alone once theyre familiar. And if you dont have your data saved, most times youre sol.

So look at this as a lucky thing for you man, youre getting a new pc! Where's the bad part? This virus might be the best thing that's happened in a while. There is none really, besides you having to pay for it i guess......

If I were you, I'd stick with XP still

 

[JDR13]

Stay away from Vista for now.

Are those gfx cards you listed the only ones you have to chose from? If possible, try to get a 8800 GTS 320mb, it's the best bang for the buck. What was your old card?

 

[zakhal]

Semi off topic:
@ zakhal: Why do you say Dell is a money waster? Bundled software? Pre-designed? Or what? I've had five Dells over the years and had no problems ever(except that wonky nvidia graphics card which they replaced for free)

Not dell specifically. I meant all pc brands generically. When you are buying a brandname som of the pay *always* go for the name. Not to mention the fact that they limit the components that you can choose which means you cant buy the components that give the best bang for buck (i.e 8800GTS in this case). And then theres the small stuff like no windows cds, limited psu, limited case, limied mobo, etc.

I still remember all the pc brands in review back 14 years. Brandnames always lost to similarily priced custompcs. I doubt much have changed since. Basicly you get less for the same money when you buy a brand.

Unfortunately, I would just make something that blew up. Homeland Security would be bashing down my door, and I'd be dragged off off to jail without due process for suicide computer bombing

Just for the record you dont need any experience/knowhow to build a custompc. The experts in the retailshop can answer any question for free. And for small fee they will build&upgrade any pc.

 

[dteowner]

Stay away from Vista for now.

Are those gfx cards you listed the only ones you have to chose from? If possible, try to get a 8800 GTS 320mb, it's the best bang for the buck. What was your old card?

I haven't tried every build option yet, but I believe those are the only card options I have (at least without getting even cheaper). I'm actually leaning toward "living with" the 8600 and making the gfx card my first planned upgrade. From where I'm at today, the 8600 will probably have enough "wow factor" to keep me happy until prices come down on the good stuff.

My current rig has a 128MB GF3. It's served me pretty well, although it weezed from time to time when I'd play X2. I doubt that was my limiting component, to be honest. With 512MB of PC2100 RAM and an AthlonXP1700, I don't think I could pump data to the gfx card fast enough to bury it.

 

[Sir Markus]

I always build my own it saves money, is rewarding, surprisingly easy and you can do it in an afternoon. The most time consuming part of it is driving around to get parts. It saves money to check out sales and buy parts from various stores. FWIW here's a nice guide on how to build your own:

http://www.pcmech.com/byopc/

But if you don't want to bother, I would also go with a Dell they make good machines. They sell them at Walmart now if you want to go look before you buy.

XP is has been rock solid for me; I wont change until I have to or if DirectX 10 becomes a necessity.

 

[JDR13]

.

My current rig has a 128MB GF3.

With 512MB of PC2100 RAM and an AthlonXP1700, I don't think I could pump data to the gfx card fast enough to bury it.

I think this virus may have been a good thing!


Seriously though, you needed to upgrade anyways, especially if you plan on playing NWN2 and Hellgate. What cpu and ram type\amount\speed are you getting?

Also, make sure you get at least a 550 watt power supply.

 

[magerette]

Not that I'm an expert or anything, Dte, but I think the 8600 will be fine for now. My 7900 is still handling every new game I throw at it. I think the conventional wisdom is to get the highest RAM on the card you can-512mb is what I have and I see the day coming when it won't be enough. Also, stating the obvious, the most RAM on the cpu as well--I hovered between 1 gig and 2 and am really glad now I went 2 though at the time it seemed excessive--(Like yours, I remember when my whole CPU barely had 512 mb of RAM .Those more knowledgeable, please leap in if I'm handing out bad advice.)

I agree with everybody else on the Vista thing--Microsoft has to drag me kicking and screaming into that, at least til it's had a few major overhauls. But I felt the same way about XP.

@zakhal: Thanks for the info on building your own. It's always nice to know the alternatives.

 

[Moriendor]

I think the conventional wisdom is to get the highest RAM on the card you can-512mb is what I have and I see the day coming when it won't be enough.

In this case (dte's new rig) it's almost a moot point since both your 7900 as well as the 8600 that dte might be getting usually have DDR3-RAM (be aware that there are a few 8600GT models with DDR2-RAM out there so watch out what you're getting!) but in general the "conventional wisdom" should be to get the fastest type of RAM, not the highest amount of RAM . A card (assuming it has roughly the same core/mem clocks) with 256MB DDR3-RAM will always be better performing across the board than a card with 512MB DDR2-RAM. That's why it always makes sense -especially if you buy a budget card- to pay attention to the type of graphics RAM used on the card.
Secondly, one should also look at the bandwidth. The 8600 is very limited with its 128-bit bus. The nVidia 79xx series with its 256-bit bus usually performs better than the 8600 series in DirectX 9.0c games.
And when it comes to DirectX 10 (which the 79xx cards can't do), the 8600 is often times simply lacking the punch that's needed to deliver playable framerates. Even the 8800 cards are struggling in some high res, high AA/AF (image quality enhancing) scenarios so the 8600 is definitely not more future-proof than the seemingly "old" 79xx cards.
In other words: There's not much point to getting a 8600 card. For DirectX 9.0c there are better options like the GF7950GT and ATI X1950XT and for DirectX 10 it's simply too slow unless you want to play in 640x480 with no filtering .

So in summary, the order should be to check 1) what's the type of RAM on the card 2) what's the bandwidth between GPU and graphics memory and 3) what's the amount of graphics RAM.

 

[magerette]

....but in general the "conventional wisdom" should be to get the fastest type of RAM, not the highest amount of RAM . A card (assuming it has roughly the same core/mem clocks) with 256MB DDR3-RAM will always be better performing across the board than a card with 512MB DDR2-RAM.

Thanks for clearing that up and furthering my knowledge, Moriendor. It's an education( in so many ways) just being here

 

[Moriendor]

Thanks for clearing that up and furthering my knowledge, Moriendor. It's an education( in so many ways) just being here

Always a pleasure m'Lady!

 

[Gorath]

Mo´s explanations are correct for graphics cards. When it comes to system RAM the first priority is "stability", followed by "size" (up to 2 or 3 GB) and only then "performance", though.


Mo, if I want to spend ca. 100 EUR on a card for WinXP which one do I get? It has to be reasonably silent and must support shader model 3, etc.

 

[Moriendor]

Mo, if I want to spend ca. 100 EUR on a card for WinXP which one do I get? It has to be reasonably silent and must support shader model 3, etc.

Hmmm... that's a fairly low budget but how about this one? It's only EUR 84.00 (maybe even cheaper from other retailers... you could check Geizhals.at for a price comparison) and it's got passive cooling. With a passively cooled graphics card you should definitely have a front and back fan in your case for good ventilation (anyone should but with a passively cooled graphics card it really becomes more or less a "must") but it doesn't get any more silent than that .
Alternatively, though a little more pricey at EUR 119.00, you could also take a look at this one here which also has passive cooling.
Both good cards for the price IMHO and both from reputable manufacturers.

 

[Gorath]

But all the tests say the new nVidia cards below 8800 suck - and ATI/AMD is even worse.

What if I can get a 7900GS for 100,- ? How good is a X1900XT for 120,- ?
I really don´t want to spend 250,- on a 8800.

 

[Moriendor]

What if I can get a 7900GS for 100,- ? How good is a X1900XT for 120,- ? I really don´t want to spend 250,- on a 8800.

If you can get a 7900GS for ~EUR 100.00 then that's a really great deal, of course, BUT since you listed "silent" as one of your requirements, I didn't think of it as an option. I have some serious doubts about the quality of the fan on such low budget cards (and couldn't find any passively cooled 79xx cards at that price point). If you can get a passively cooled 79xx card (or a card where the reviews mention that the fan is pleasantly silent) then I'd say go for it but I haven't seen one at around the ~EUR 100.00 mark so I think that the 8600GT that I linked to above is just fine.
The cards below the 88xx series might be a little disappointing in their performance since just about any card in the mid and high range (above 86xx) should theoretically outperform the previous generation of cards but the 8600GT being almost as fast and in some cases even faster than the 7900GS is certainly not a totally bad choice at all. It's a little disappointing compared to the current gen 88xx cards and also a little disappointing compared to the previous 79xx cards but on its own it's still a really good card overall, especially in its passively cooled version.

 

[dteowner]

So I took the plunge. By the time 137 people sign off on the payroll deduction form, I'll probably have my new shiny by mid-August.

I really wanted to go the XPS410 route since I could get several hardware improvements for less money, but I ended up with an XPS710 instead. Getting a 750W psu instead of 375W seemed too important to pass over. It also bumped me up from an Intel P965 chipset to an nforce 590 SLI chipset, which I hope is a good jump. Ended up with the GF8600GTS (256MB, DDR3) gfx card.

Thanks to everyone for the hardware advice. At some point in the future, I'll be able to get a grip on the virus that's consumed my current rig.

 

[JDR13]

Sounds like a good choice dte, what cpu and RAM did you end up going with?

 

[magerette]

Now you will have TEH AWWSUM and pwn ALL with ur ungawdly power.

And about time, some would say

XPS machines have their own service tech line, special warranties and other stuff, plus the case opens like a suitcase and you can get at and see everything inside and change out hardware like disposable diapers. Which I'm sure you've had plenty of practise at. Maybe your unit will arrive about the same time as The Witcher.

 

[xSamhainx]

what did you do for cooling? Stick with fan-cooled?