Report: Crysis 2 Leaked

Appealing to a market is not at all enough to be successful.

It does nothing if the market is not aware of it, and that's the whole issue with capitalism.

It's about marketing, not actual value. Marketing is about perception, not reality.

If you can convince the market that they have a need for your product, then you'll profit - and that has absolutely no direct relation to the quality of the product.

So, marketing controls the market - and not the product. You just need a product that's "good enough" to convince people they need it, and the rest is about shoving your product down the throats of as many people as possible. Once you get enough people to pay for it, it has to be a good product - because otherwise people have been duped - and they don't like that - so naturally they spent their money well. They will also be certain to tell that to everyone - so they can convince themselves even more that their money was well spent.

It's all about perception over reality. That's not to say those two can't co-exist peacefully - but too often they don't seem to, at least from where I'm sitting.

But I suppose what sells can be considered quality. It's mostly about explosions, or gimmicks. Everything has to look great, of course, and you need some kind of edgy or gritty content. Just so that your product can be cool and trendsetting. With Avatar it's 3D and amazing CGI. With Dragon Age - it was oodles of blood and oh-so-daring sexual content. That's the kind of thing that most people apparently find appealing.

But it's almost never, ever, about a strong game design - or challenging evolutionary gameplay, and Dragon Age was almost a miracle in that it wasn't entirely streamlined. In AAA Hollywood movies, it's almost never about deep, meaningful stories - or fantastic characters. Such things don't sell that much.

But that's not really my concern - and if people want something like Avatar so bad, they can have it. If they can tell themselves it was a powerful movie, then so be it.

I'm just not going to support it - and sometimes you need to actually experience something to be certain of what it is - because even in the current AAA mainstream market, there is quality or actual art.

But it's rare.
 
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Wow! What a bunch of amazingly wierd "piracy is OK" arguments from our recident forum-loons this time :)

a) I don't want to pay for games I don't like (ok, fair enough...)
b) I don't want to pay for games that I *do* like - because someone *might* use that money to make a sequel that I don't like (...what?!?)
c) Actually I just don't want to pay for games at all - because the money is not given to the right people anyway, so paying for a game is not helping the artist/dev (...WHAT?!?)

To all you sensible guys posting to this thread - give it up!
You will not win this argument, and I'm betting a certain someone has more stamina for keeping up posting long replies than you :)



As for the original topic - it's a disaster for the Crysis guys for sure!
But in my mind mostly because it exposes the copy protection code, which should make it a lot easier to do a crack. On the other hand, a crack was probably going to appear in a short time anyway.
Also, someone might play the leaked dev build and judge the game by it... could result in some unfair rumours about the bugs/stability of the game for example.

As for the usefulness of the source code I don't know. An engine is only powerful if you know how to use it, and source code only useful if you understand how it's put together. Personally, if given the source code of Crysis 2, I would not waste much time digging through it. That time would be better spent just continuing work on my own tech.
 
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Wow! What a bunch of amazingly wierd "piracy is OK" arguments from our recident forum-loons this time

Please note that I would never say "piracy is OK" - because that's an objective statement.

I'm explaining why I, personally, have a difficult time determining what I want to support.

What others think of it, is their business.

It's always interesting/amusing to hear people judging - especially when based on pre-prepared boxed thinking - but only to a point.

I'd much rather debate such a thing with actual arguments and explanations of the various points of view. But, people love to judge…
 
Example:

A "friend of mine" tried the demo for Gothic and loved it. However, he could not find the game in-store in Belgium. So he pirated the game and played through most of it. He loved the game so much, he bought it online then and played the game again.

When Gothic II, the expansion and GIII came out, they were all instant buys for him. He still hasn't bought Risen though.
 
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I don't feel like wasting my time going through it here with you.

You should have just written this, rather than an entire post of nothing before it. The reason I called you condescending was because of the way you wrote what you did, not because of your opinions. The reason I said you act entitled is because you do.

If I ever stumble upon your great idea for the future of the world I will be sure to comment on it.
 
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You should have just written this, rather than an entire post of nothing before it. The reason I called you condescending was because of the way you wrote what you did, not because of your opinions. The reason I said you act entitled is because you do.

If I ever stumble upon your great idea for the future of the world I will be sure to comment on it.

Why would I limit myself based on what you want?

I participate on a public forum for a good reason, and it's not like I dedicate my posts to single individuals.

That would be a waste of time, in my opinion. I like the idea of everyone sharing their thoughts - and I'm not particularly fond of communicating with closed-minded judgmental individuals.

That's just part of the sharing process.
 
Its all about human greed it will never go away. What we have is never enough we always want more. It will probably be our downfall.

This is currently what the bearer of the Nobel Prize for economics Muhammad Yunus because of hin "invention" of a microcredit bank learns right now : Normal banks have been doling out micro credits on a very similar basis like what led to the "western" finncial crash based on house credits … Now people put these credits into the consume, instead into long-living projects … The result is twicefold : a) these normal banks have now massive problems because these people are simply too poor to be able to pay them back - b) the microcredit concept has been exploitet and - implicitely - kind of bad-mouthed, because ths NObel Prize winner was always very seriously checking the people whether they could pay the credits back or nor … - and the normal backs didn't check them … So now everyone says that microcredits are a bad thing, because these normal banks just were driven by greed, not by seriousness …
 
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Not really "good"… I am saying if you make a product that appeals to a market you will be successful.
Sure - but that`s also rather obvious. Also, as said above, it`s not a guarantee of success at all.
Bioware have a market they appeal to quite well, it just might not include you. Jeff Vogel has a market he appeals to as well. They are different sizes and thus the budgets are very different and the returns very different but they are both making money by making a product for a market that enjoys it.
I was under impression that Mr.Vogel wants to expand his audience - and if he was about to dumb down his games (hopefully not) to appeal to broader market then it wouldn`t be a niche audience anymore. Also, again, there`s lot of indie devs who are hardly making any money out of this "niche" - it`s really not all that easy.

And, just for the record - DA:O was the first Bioware game that I truly disliked, for assorted reasons. I played them all and most my reactions ranged from "not bad" (Jade) through "So solid!" (infinity Eng) to "this is amazing" (ME). I don`t like their company tactics and smokescreens & general BS but I also enjoy their games.

Wow! What a bunch of amazingly wierd "piracy is OK" arguments from our recident forum-loons this time :)

I think your posts is actually first using this straightforward "is OK!" device, apart from maybe one hahaha troll earlier. Piracy is sometimes OK, and for me that`s a fact of life - which is not as black & white as you seem to be implying.

Regardless, I really enjoy a status of a "resident forum-loon" - in fact it already says as much in my nickname/location, thank you :)

As for the original topic - it's a disaster for the Crysis guys for sure!
But in my mind mostly because it exposes the copy protection code, which should make it a lot easier to do a crack. On the other hand, a crack was probably going to appear in a short time anyway.

On the other hand - brilliant logic ;)

Also, someone might play the leaked dev build and judge the game by it… could result in some unfair rumours about the bugs/stability of the game for example.

Sure, sure,….it could also result in an outpour of "Crysis maxed out gameplay vid CHECK IT OUT WOW!" videos. Which it did. Also if you checked out the Torrentfreak link earlier you`d see it`s not all gloom and doom, even amongst the torrent posse.
As for the usefulness of the source code I don't know.

Hang on…wasn`t it supposed to be a big disaster? :)
 
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I was under impression that Mr.Vogel wants to expand his audience - and if he was about to dumb down his games (hopefully not) to appeal to broader market then it wouldn`t be a niche audience anymore. Also, again, there`s lot of indie devs who are hardly making any money out of this "niche" - it`s really not all that easy.

He can change his goals certainly, and there is risk involved with that. At the end of the day it all comes down to he makes a game and you decide whether you want to buy it or not. I don't deal with hypotheticals about what he might do with the profits, I deal with the reality of whether I want what he is selling or not.

I don't feel entitled to taking it either way and then paying him if I feel like it. I think that is morally wrong, no matter how you slice it.
 
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I don't feel entitled to taking it either way and then paying him if I feel like it. I think that is morally wrong, no matter how you slice it.

I fail to see how it ties to piracy when for last few posts we`ve been discussing capitalism & niche games. At least that was my impression.

Seems we approached the `tumbleweed` moment.
 
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It's been about money since it started man. The reason people made Might and Magic and Baldur's Gate, shit the reason people made the original D&D, was to make money. Indie developers right now making classic style RPGs and whatever else are doing it to make money. You need to get over that, it's capitalism, it's how the whole thing works. It has downsides of course, but is there a better alternative? Communism sure ain't it.

No. D&D started as a strategy game by fans of strategy games. It used to be that there were no big publishers back in the 80/90'ies, it was much easier for a small bureau to get a game published, reach it's target audience and get reviewed by the reviewers. You can say that back then there were no capitalists, meaning someone with capital to invest. Almost every bureau was an indie developer, so all it took was people with enough cash to get around for awhile and a vision.

It's when it's no longer enough to do so, when games cost too much to produce, that you are forced to get a publisher, and that's where the creativity dies. The publisher do not invest in visions, new ideas or creativity, they invest in what seems to give them their money back. That means that they usually invest in what have been tried, and that's where capitalism start to become just like a planned economy market, where there are only a couple of wares on the shelfs. When capitalists try to establish the "average gamer" and get developers to build games in effort to make money out of the "average gamer", innovation and diversity simply dies.

The key thing is that you don't have to buy the games, you don't have to support their efforts and the games they make. If you don't like the games they make and don't like their tactics then just don't buy those games, don't support those publishers. At the same time though don't pirate the games either, because like I just said not only is it illegal copyright infringement, it's also just a stupid waste of time to play games you don't like.

If you do like them then come to terms with that and pay up.

So how exactly is one less person buying products going to get me the products I like? I do not see your logic.

I don't even know what this means. CRPGs are either still around and worth playing (and supporting) or they are not.

That's just the facts man, there is no room for debate there. If you like playing Dragon Age, Two Worlds, The Elder Scrolls, Risen or whatever other games then put something IN and support them, then get something OUT, the gameplay.

I bought Dragon Age. Actually I bought almost every tactical partybased RPG the last 5 years. Which is uhm... Dragon Age? Now how exactly did that change the direction of the market?

If you don't like those games then find other ones, be it Dead State or Avernum or whatever else.

A game that havn't been released and an indiegame. Do I have point out that your logic is going in circles now?

Put something IN to those indie devs and get something OUT. If you don't even like those then the hobby is already dead for you I guess, because no one is making anything you want to play.

I support indie devs who actually manage to create complete games. Spiderweb software have been around for ages. I havn't seen the big publishers getting inspired by him yet though. I thought we were talking about big publishers.

Wherever you stand the point is you either want to play something or you don't and if you do you should chip in for the opportunity, or else you are just a leech.

Lost me completely now.
 
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Example:

A "friend of mine" tried the demo for Gothic and loved it. However, he could not find the game in-store in Belgium. So he pirated the game and played through most of it. He loved the game so much, he bought it online then and played the game again.

When Gothic II, the expansion and GIII came out, they were all instant buys for him. He still hasn't bought Risen though.


Ah…so it was ok for him to pirate it because he couldn't find it "in-store", even though it was available for purchase online. ;)

I understand what you're trying to say though, at least he did buy the game eventually. If only everyone did that…
 
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Ah…so it was ok for him to pirate it because he couldn't find it "in-store", even though it was available for purchase online. ;)

I do not think it was widely common for people to buy games online 2002.
 
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Thought you agreed that try-before-you-buy is sort of ok.

Some of the rationalizations I've seen seemed to go beyond that.

Like I said, I don't have a problem with trying before you buy, but we all know there are too many people who never end up buying.

I'm done replying on that topic though. If anyone wants to start talking about Crysis 2 again…well…:)
 
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It's when it's no longer enough to do so, when games cost too much to produce, that you are forced to get a publisher, and that's where the creativity dies.

I agree to that.

Money is like a curse for creativity.



As a side-note : The "try before you buy" concept was what made Shareware big, originally, and some of its irms, like ID, for example.

Duke Nukum (that's the very first name !) and Commander Keen were originally Shareware titles. Commander Keen 6 is commercial, and that's why it isn't sold anymore.
 
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