RPGWatch Feature: Arcania Review

Yeah, the Witcher is a pretty good comparison to Arcania actually. If you liked the gameplay of the witcher (being able to slice and dice groups of enemies but with smaller number of enemies then usual action RPGs ala Diablo) you're probably going to like Arcania.
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
162
Yeah, the Witcher is a pretty good comparison to Arcania actually. If you liked the gameplay of the witcher (being able to slice and dice groups of enemies but with smaller number of enemies then usual action RPGs ala Diablo) you're probably going to like Arcania.

I'm sorry, but I think that's a *terrible* comparison. Those games are completely different in style and atmosphere.

I consider The Witcher one of the top 10 crpgs I've played, but I think Arcania is very mediocre.
 
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
39,625
Location
Florida, US
Arcania is now released in US so I am off to the stores to pick it up
Strange,"we are releasing, we aren't releasing" Crazy!
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
1,397
Location
USA-Michigan
Dez said:
This is just something I will never understand because learning to play a new game is what keeps my going. In addition to that, Solving puzzles, exploring open new worlds, making choises that have meaningfull consequences, getting beated by monsters and returning later when I'm become more powerfull, trying different character builds, learning the game rules…

I agree completely. At the age of 12 I bought a book "100 different card games". I learned and played nearly all of them together with some school friends. This was a great experience. We learned old card games, new ones, some with alternate rule-sets, card games from other parts of the world …
We still play some of these games when my old friends meet again. One is called
"Spades" popular in the U.S.A., but mostly unknown in Germany. It's easy to learn, but hard to master - recommended.

***

@Wulf
Sorry, I don't plan to play Arcania - and I can't make a CRPG-Meter without playing the game a least once.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
20,262
Location
Germany
I'm reading a lot about Arcania here and at WoG.
The CRPG-Meter score of Arcania is probably between 2 and 3 = CRPG light.
I suspect it is very close to 2.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
20,262
Location
Germany
You start off nicely, but then you have to end up with the same old bullshit. Calling people stupid, because they enjoy a casual CRPG like Arcania.

Now, I'm as "hardcore" as they come - but I enjoyed the Arcania demo, and I intend to buy Arcania when it's down in price. I know I'll enjoy it, even though it won't be a particularly good match for my preferences.

You apparently live in a world of black and white, where a game is either good or bad. Some games are simply average or "decent" - and while Arcania doesn't excel in any one area - it certainly doesn't downright suck in all of them. Combat is entertaining, exploration is limited but rewarding, and it's a pretty game to look at. The skills are somewhat interesting, even if there isn't nearly enough variation.

Maybe that's not enough for you, but why do you insist on putting people down because they get some entertainment out of it?


I hate F3 I think its a very bad game that raped Fallout series, still I acknowledge few good things about it and although I dislike it I understand why many people enjoy it and I even recommend it to people asking me for a recommendation of a newer RPG. I preordered New Vegas because I think it will be a decent game, not a great one but decent one, and I played and enjoyed many new games like Mass Effect 2 that were bashed for not being very good RPGs.

I understand why people like Oblivion, F3, Diablo, Fable, Dungeon Siege, NWN, Mass Effect or most other RPGs but I just cant understand anyone liking Arcania.
I havent seen anything in that game worth playing, the combat is something beyond bad, dialogs and voice acting a joke, world design choices (stealing without consequence, no lockpicking, invisible barriers, water allergy, no sandbox) moronic.
When someone says that they enjoy game despite all flaws but like it because they dont need any effort to win I see it as a huge decline of gaming.
 
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
21
@DArtagnan

Some of us "old grumpy crpg-veterans" slightly overreact, because we think Arcania is another missed opportunity to make a classic game. Maybe it's the last coffin nail in the Gothic franchise.
My fear is, that the market will be flooded by light crpgs and I'm ending playing just Indies or writing games of my own ;)
I simply can't support these kind of games; Fable, Sacred 2, Diablo 1, Dungeon Siege 1 bored me to death. If other people can get fun out of this - okay - but I'll always state my opinion here.

Yeah, and I sympathise.

I think the difference is that I accepted that long ago, and I accepted that since we enthusiast gamers are in the tiny minority - we have to give up control of the market.

Sad, yeah, but it's so painfully obvious and inevitable - that I just can't see the point in combating the opposite direction.

But I'm not as pessimistic as I used to be, because I know that casual gamers are becoming less casual by the minute. The hobby of gaming is spreading, and it's becoming accepted as something worthwhile - whether in terms of playing or creating.

That means that the masses will slowly evolve and start demanding more and more, and we're already seeing that today. Look towards Bioshock and something like Deus Ex 3. Those games seem to take the casual approach slightly further than what we've seen before. Do they match the games of old, like System Shock and the first Deus Ex? No, but they're closer to that - than the genre was when the casuals first sat down in the seat of dominance.

It'll only get better, if at a slow pace.

Arcania is a casual Gothic, and it's not that good. But I find it to be pleasant enough, and it does have some cool things about it. I can spend my time hating what it's not, but I knew it could never approach Gothic - based on the previews.

In fact, I think it's EXACTLY at the same level that I've been expecting, and as such - it manages to meet my expectations so that I can enjoy it.

Lament it all you want, but for your own sake - don't make the mistake of putting down people because they happen to have other interests they're passionate about.

If Arcania doesn't do well, it means casual gamers have already evolved beyond that simplistic formula. If it DOES do well, then it's still a step towards a real Gothic in the minds of the casuals. That means it might actually HELP the success of Risen 2 - just to name an example.

It might be a small step in a fast evolution towards enthusiast gaming for a lot of people :)
 
@DArtagnan,
…I think the difference is that I accepted that long ago, and I accepted that since we enthusiast gamers are in the tiny minority - we have to give up control of the market.

Maybe we are a minority (though amazon.de for example shows more and more people are getting bored by lukewarm crpgs), but sites like WoG, RPGWatch, GameBanshee, No Mutants Allowed and last but not least the Codex are opinion leaders.
Many people all over the internet have trust in our analysis and spread our opinions and discussions. This is all I want, discussions, analysis, having fun - to get better and more entertaining games on the long run.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
20,262
Location
Germany
@DArtagnan,


Maybe we are a minority (though amazon.de for example shows more and more people are getting bored by lukewarm crpgs), but sites like WoG, RPGWatch, GameBanshee, No Mutants Allowed and last but not least the Codex are opinion leaders.
Many people all over the internet have trust in our analysis and spread our opinions and discussions. This is all I want, discussions, analysis, having fun - to get better and more entertaining games on the long run.

Opinion leaders? Are you serious?

An opinion is not something you spread. It's something you form and something you have. Then people agree with it, or they don't. If you "spread" it, then you're dealing with sheep - and sheep are not particularly helpful when wanting to get at the heart of the matter.

Damn, well, I guess I'm just not from around here….

I think I'll go buy and play Arcania :p
 
Opinion leaders? Are you serious?

An opinion is not something you spread. It's something you form and something you have. Then people agree with it, or they don't. If you "spread" it, then you're dealing with sheep - and sheep are not particularly helpful when wanting to get at the heart of the matter.

Damn, well, I guess I'm just not from around here….

I think I'll go buy and play Arcania :p


Good games that form good opinion of them generate word of mouth advertising, players satisfied with the game recommend it to others. Old Fallouts were a B games with relative small budget and little marketing but sold quite well at start and are still selling because of the "word of mouth" advertising generated by fans. There are many games that are long sellers and need good opinion of them to thrive so saying that opinion of games in gaming communities are not important is just ignorant.
 
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Messages
21
Good games that form good opinion of them generate word of mouth advertising, players satisfied with the game recommend it to others. Old Fallouts were a B games with relative small budget and little marketing but sold quite well at start and are still selling because of the "word of mouth" advertising generated by fans. There are many games that are long sellers and need good opinion of them to thrive so saying that opinion of games in gaming communities are not important is just ignorant.

Who said opinions are not important? They ALL are.
 
@DArtagnan
is that concept really new to you ?

Opinion leadership

New?

Nah, lots of people believe their opinions somehow matter more than those of others.

Even if some of them are right, importance is not the same as truth. As in, just because I consider Gothic to be the better game, it doesn't make it true - opinion leader or not.

Whatever you really think the "opinion leaders" are in control of, the point is that they're not really making much of a difference - if you take note of how the industry is forming.

Opinion leaders are pretty insignificant compared to what the masses will buy. So, essentially, the masses are the real leaders - except they don't really lead anything. It's an illusion, and that which will sell - is that which you can convince people to buy. It has little or nothing to do with objective quality.

If our opinions mattered, we wouldn't be seeing too many Arcanias would we? ;)

In any case, just because I personally prefer hardcore games (damn, I hate that term) - it doesn't make my preference superior, and it doesn't entitle me to get what I want from those who make a living out of creating games.

Ideally, I'd want the artist to be free with his art, but that would require less people to support greed as the motivator. Essentially, it will never happen as long as money is the guiding light in the industry.
 
Nah, lots of people believe their opinions somehow matter more than those of others.

That's a negative view of the concept. I'm a opinion leader in crpgs, because I know a lot of the game mechanics, game concepts and simply because a played a lot of them in the last 30 years. Many friends, acquaintances and colleges trust my recommendations in crpg games.
On the other hand I have friends, that would never play a game that is recommended by me, because they know exactly my rpg-values and they don't agree with them (They are not sheeps).

I'm a happy opinion-follower when it comes to buying cars for example. I don't have enough knowlege about this topic and I know some experts that I can trust completely.

P.S.:
Sometimes our voices have influence in the industry - Gothic 2.5 - Night of the Raven was made harder than Gothic 2 vanilla by PB, because the fans wanted it.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
20,262
Location
Germany
That's a negative view of the concept. I'm a opinion leader in crpgs, because I know a lot of the game mechanics, game concepts and simply because a played a lot of them in the last 30 years. Many friends, acquaintances and colleges trust my recommendations in crpg games.
On the other hand I have friends, that would never play a game that is recommended by me, because they know exactly my rpg-values and they don't agree with them (They are not sheeps).

I'm a happy opinion-follower when it comes to buying cars for example. I don't have enough knowlege about this topic and I know some experts that I can trust completely.

P.S.:
Sometimes our voices have influence in the industry - Gothic 2.5 - Night of the Raven was made harder than Gothic 2 vanilla by PB, because the fans wanted it.

A negative view?

No, I simply don't agree with it.

You're equating cars with games, which is a mistake. Even so, I bet you can get 10 car experts to furiously disagree about what car is the best one, for a specific price. They'd be furious, because they're just as silly as the gamer who thinks he knows what game is the better one. Juvenile attitudes that stick to adults like glue.

Games are about fun - and no matter what you tell yourself, you can't measure fun in terms of function and feature lists.

If a casual gamer gets more enjoyment out of Arcania than Gothic, then Arcania is "better" to him.

It's really that simple, and I don't see how anyone could miss something that obvious.

Besides, I'm pretty sure I don't agree with everyone else who is an enthusiast RPG "expert". I tend to prefer non-linear open world games like Gothic, and others prefer more tightly structured games like The Witcher or something similar. Neither of us are right, we just have different preferences.

We don't lead anything, except our own personal opinions. I truly find the concept of knowing what makes an objectively fun game laughable and supremely naive. If that was true, then we'd have a recipe for great games that all could follow - and everyone would have fun. That's about as ignorant as you can get.

It REALLY is completely and utterly subjective, and nothing will ever be objectively more fun - unless every single gamer agrees with it.

The thing is that casual gamers don't want to invest as much as the enthusiasts, because it's not their passion or hobby. It shouldn't be, should it? We can't claim the right to "own" the industry - because we're not adding to it more than the casual gamer.

About the only person who I would consider "more important" is the artist himself, because he's the one creating - and as such he should be in charge. The sad thing is, that the artist isn't in charge. The money is in charge.
 
@DArtagnan
You're are twisting words like a rubber band.

You're equating cars with games, which is a mistake.

I don't equate cars with games. This was just an example where I'm an opinion follower. I know experts/friends that have much expertise about cars, I tell them my preferences and they tell me what cars are suitable for me and which I better avoid.

This is a concept of decision-making I use very often:

a) find someone who shares your taste about class of objects (books, music, games, cars, …) with a lot of knowledge about that specific class

b) discuss a new object of this class with him

c) follow his recommendation and buy it (or not!)

We don't lead anything, except our own personal opinions. I truly find the concept of knowing what makes an objectively fun game laughable and supremely naive. If that was true, then we'd have a recipe for great games that all could follow - and everyone would have fun. That's about as ignorant as you can get.

It REALLY is completely and utterly subjective, and nothing will ever be objectively more fun - unless every single gamer agrees with it.

With the CRPG-Meter (example Drakensang) we can measure the crpg-ingredients of a given crpg. It is subjective, but it tells the reader against what principles it is measuring. I think this is very fair.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
20,262
Location
Germany
Well, am I the only one that see's a REAL problem with this? I personally never found any of the gothic games to be all that great to be honest, but to dilute the mix even more is just a really bad sign of the way things have been going.

I mean I still play Demise so I am in the minority for sure.. But I do enjoy diabloesk games, but turning a franchise from one into another is just bad IMHO.

And you guys on here calling yourselves classic RPG'ers? Cmon, we are few and far between.. Excited for fallout new vegas?

sheesh.
 
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
73
Back
Top Bottom