Skyrim - Now Supports Paid Mods

I think this is good in theory, giving ambitious small teams more opportunities to do great big mods that we rarely see nowadays, but giving the developers only 25% and dealing with the legal mess makes me pessimistic.
 
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I'm beginning to see this as a cash grab as well. Zenimax must have lost millions betting on ESO being the "next big thing" and this is a desperate attempt to generate revenue until Bethesda can release another game. Hopefully litigation against Valve and Bethesda will force them to drop this idea. The problem with that is it takes someone with deep pockets to go to court against the big boys.

Do we have any corporate lawyers around? I'd love to get Desslock's take on this.

Well, I'm not necessarily all that suspicious. For-profit companies will often leap at the possibility of opening new revenue streams. If you want to be rewarded at your place of work, coming up with an entirely new class of income is a great way to do it. You make an incisive and clever connection, but there's so many motivations already that I don't think you can pare it down to just one cause.
 
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"In light of recent events surrounding the ability for users to sell their mods on the Steam Workshop the TESRenewal team would like to clarify that we will never charge our community any money in order to enjoy our mod.
Thank you and have a great weekend" :thumbsup:
https://www.facebook.com/TESV.Skywind?fref=nf
 
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Another great mod will remain free: Enderal

Link to English forum with Lord Dagon's announcement:
http://sureai.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=136&t=7057

I even posted there, giving him many thanks for the good news. If you have a spare time, (let's say: after playing your paid-modded Skyrim :) ), please do the same. These few words showing gratefulness and kindness towards modders surely mean A LOT to them.
:)
 
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Good source for how some modders (including SKSE creators) are responding with links to their statements:

https://np.reddit.com/r/skyrimmods/comments/33puev/official_sw_monetization_discussion_thread_pt_2/

One or two of them do mention that the Nexus is listed as a "service provider" meaning it' one of the five pre-approved 3rd parties that can get a cut of the revenue at the modder' discretion.

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/about/?appid=72850#ServiceProviders

Also, from schlangster (of the SkyUI team) on the Nexus:

Well… currently, the plan is the following:
- Upload new version for minimum $1 (pay-what-you-want) on SW.
- Keep old version for free as it is on both Nexus and SW.
- Service provider split would go to Nexus to support the site even if I can't host the free version there.
- Any changes to core infrastructure like MCM flows back to the free version as well, so I won't try to force you to upgrade or pull any other stupid stunt like that.

Some more background:
Two years ago after released what was supposed to be the final SkyUI version 4.1, because I no longer had that much time to put into it and I felt it was time to move on. Then, couple of weeks back, I was invited to take part in the test group and prepare something for the launch. That prompted me to start working on a SkyUI update, because the crafting menus were still left to do and I know there's demand for them. It's the kind of task that requires someone with a decent technical background to work on annoying stuff full-time for a couple of weeks - something neither me nor anyone else was willing to do up to this point. But: Doing it for the potential of money was fine, so there we go.

I didn't make the launch date, because I'm also a contributor for SKSE, so I knew that it was going up on Steam and I wanted to wait for that. At this point, I still assumed the major hurdle would've been making everything work with a few clicks. I don't particularly regret missing it, considering the immense shitstorm. Didn't really see that coming. I saw it similar to an app store where nobody freaks out when you upload a paid app. Either people buy it or they don't.

So these are the facts. Currently, I'm still waiting anyway. I'll return the donations from today once I figured out how that works, so no need to feel tricked there. And I suppose now we are at the point where you will explain to me why I should mod and what modding is all about.

Link
 
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I almost never download even free mods to games, and if they cost then my frequency of this will be even less (i.e. probably zero).
 
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I also did read the Brumbek's announcement on SMIM's Nexus page, where he says he won't charge for his SMIM mod.
Now, I know he is an active member around here (at least, I saw someone here using the nick 'Brumbek'):
Brumbek, thank you for your excellent mod, and thank you for keeping it free of charge. SMIM is a must-have mod, a great work indeed !

Additionally, to all other members here who are modders as well, who chose to maintain your hard work, your passionate hobby free of charge: THANK YOU !! Thank you for your good work and for your support !!

One of the few good things arisen from this intense pay-or-not-to-pay-for-mods discussion is: we always forget to say "thank you"; now this simple expression of gratefulness has regained your meaning and importance.

:)
 
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Thank you henriquejr for the links, and a big thank you to all modders who decided to keep your mods free. I made a new post on the front-page for anyone interested.
 
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This is pretty fucked up…

Chesko Reddit post (first mod pulled from Workshop)
The experiment has failed: My exit from the curated Workshop (self.skyrimmods)
submitted 10 hours ago * by [deleted]

Hello everyone,

I would like to address the current situation regarding Arissa, and Art of the Catch, an animated fishing mod scripted by myself and animated by Aqqh.

It now lives in modding history as the first paid mod to be removed due to a copyright dispute. Recent articles on Kotaku and Destructiod have positioned me as a content thief. Of course, the truth is more complex than that.

I will now reveal some information about some internal discussions that have occurred at Valve in the month leading up to this announcement, more than you've heard anywhere else.

I'll start with the human factor. Imagine you wake up one morning, and sitting in your inbox is an email directly from Valve, with a Bethesda staff member cc'd. And they want YOU, yes, you, to participate in a new and exciting program. Well, shit. What am I supposed to say? These kinds of opportunities happen once in a lifetime. It was a very persuasive and attractive situation.
We were given about a month and a half to prepare our content. As anyone here knows, large DLC-sized mods don't happen in a month and a half. During this time, we were required to not speak to anyone about this program. And when a company like Valve or Bethesda tells you not to do something, you tend to listen.

I knew this would cause backlash, trust me. But I also knew that, with the right support and infrastructure in place, there was an opportunity to take modding to "the next level", where there are more things like Falskaar in the world because the incentive was there to do it. The boundary between "what I'm willing to do as a hobby" and "what I'm willing to do if someone paid me to do it" shifts, and more quality content gets produced. That to me sounded great for everyone. Hobbyists will continue to be hobbyists, while those that excel can create some truly magnificent work. In the case of Arissa, there are material costs associated with producing that mod (studio time, sound editing, and so on). To be able to support Arissa professionally also sounded great.

Things internally stayed rather positive and exciting until some of us discovered that "25% Revenue Share" meant 25% to the modder, not to Valve / Bethesda. This sparked a long internal discussion. My key argument to Bethesda (putting my own head on the chopping block at the time) was that this model incentivizes small, cheap to produce items (time-wise) than it does the large, full-scale mods that this system has the opportunity of championing. It does not reward the best and the biggest. But at the heart of it, the argument came down to this: How much would you pay for front-page Steam coverage? How much would you pay to use someone else's successful IP (with nearly no restrictions) for a commercial purpose? I know indie developers that would sell their houses for such an opportunity. And 25%, when someone else is doing the marketing, PR, brand building, sales, and so on, and all I have to do is "make stuff", is actually pretty attractive. Is it fair? No. But it was an experiment I was willing to at least try.

Of course, the modding community is a complex, tangled web of interdependencies and contributions. There were a lot of questions surrounding the use of tools and contributed assets, like FNIS, SKSE, SkyUI, and so on. The answer we were given is:
[Valve] Officer Mar 25 @ 4:47pm
Usual caveat: I am not a lawyer, so this does not constitute legal advice. If you are unsure, you should contact a lawyer. That said, I spoke with our lawyer and having mod A depend on mod B is fine—it doesn't matter if mod A is for sale and mod B is free, or if mod A is free or mod B is for sale.

Art of the Catch required the download of a separate animation package, which was available for free, and contained an FNIS behavior file. Art of the Catch will function without this download, but any layman can of course see that a major component of it's enjoyment required FNIS.

After a discussion with Fore, I made the decision to pull Art of the Catch down myself. (It was not removed by a staff member) Fore and I have talked since and we are OK.
I have also requested that the pages for Art of the Catch and Arissa be completely taken down. Valve's stance is that they "cannot" completely remove an item from the Workshop if it is for sale, only allow it to be marked as unpurchaseable. I feel like I have been left to twist in the wind by Valve and Bethesda.

In light of all of the above, and with the complete lack of moderation control over the hundreds of spam and attack messages I have received on Steam and off, I am making the decision to leave the curated Workshop behind. I will be refunding all PayPal donations that have occurred today and yesterday.
I am also considering removing my content from the Nexus. Why? The problem is that Robin et al, for perfectly good political reasons, have positioned themselves as essentially the champions of free mods and that they would never implement a for-pay system. However, The Nexus is a listed Service Provider on the curated Workshop, and they are profiting from Workshop sales. They are saying one thing, while simultaneously taking their cut. I'm not sure I'm comfortable supporting that any longer. I may just host my mods on my own site for anyone who is interested.

What I need to happen, right now, is for modding to return to its place in my life where it's a fun side hobby, instead of taking over my life. That starts now. Or just give it up entirely; I have other things I could spend my energy on.

Real-time update - I was just contacted by Valve's lawyer. He stated that they will not remove the content unless "legally compelled to do so", and that they will make the file visible only to currently paid users. I am beside myself with anger right now as they try to tell me what I can do with my own content. The copyright situation with Art of the Catch is shades of grey, but in Arissa 2.0's case, it's black and white; that's 100% mine and Griefmyst's work, and I should be able to dictate its distribution if I so choose. Unbelievable.
 
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