@aub
I think it's more likely that I'm the same as always, as are you
As in, I tend to use my brain first - and you use your heart first.
Probably...
*concedes*
Skyrim - The Remedy For An Overly-Connected Age
- Thread starter Couchpotato
- Start date
Probably...
*concedes*
From my limited experience in SWTOR (20-30h) and NWN Online(20-30h), it is anything but optional.
Even D&D Online only let you do stuff yourself for a short while, after that doing solo content becomes too hard.
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Ripper
Зичу Вам успіхів
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Wow. That comment is stunningly smug and condescending. There should be an option on here to throw a virtual drink in his face.
This is a fine example of why people like to retreat to Tamriel after a bit of online interaction!
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Well, Dart is a smug, condescending sort of guy. 
Though I can't deny there's a little bit of truth in what he says. I'm INFP...and the "F" is for "feeling". My partner has a "T" in that spot, for thinking. I am an intuitive person, and I tend to feel before I think...^.^;;
Still, Ripper, you do have a point.
Though I can't deny there's a little bit of truth in what he says. I'm INFP...and the "F" is for "feeling". My partner has a "T" in that spot, for thinking. I am an intuitive person, and I tend to feel before I think...^.^;;
Still, Ripper, you do have a point.
D
DArtagnan
Guest
While I can't easily demonstrate that I'm not really the condescending type, I'm often confused with such a person.
My experience is that it's a very comfortable conclusion to arrive at - and much more so than arriving at the conclusion that you're simply out of rational support for your arguments.
So, I don't blame people for thinking I'm arrogant/condescending. In fact, I find it somewhat entertaining
The latter being a reasonable sign that I'm a bit smug, which I probably have to admit.
Alternatively, I could be sad that people fail to stand a deeper look inside themselves, but I prefer the lighter approach.
My experience is that it's a very comfortable conclusion to arrive at - and much more so than arriving at the conclusion that you're simply out of rational support for your arguments.
So, I don't blame people for thinking I'm arrogant/condescending. In fact, I find it somewhat entertaining
The latter being a reasonable sign that I'm a bit smug, which I probably have to admit.
Alternatively, I could be sad that people fail to stand a deeper look inside themselves, but I prefer the lighter approach.
zahratustra
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DArt is a smug, condescending sort of guy. Or can be confused with one (which is all the same in the end) but he is right about this:
"Also, a HUGE part of Skyrim's success is directly related to the modding community - as well as the modding community of the past TES games".
I have "played" Morrowind for a very long time but most of this time I have spend making mods and playing mods made by others. I bet that the majority of those who still play Skyrim do that for exactly the same reason.
And let's not forget about surprisingly big and active screenshot crowd which doesn't play the game but uses it as an inexpensive equivalent of Poser
"Also, a HUGE part of Skyrim's success is directly related to the modding community - as well as the modding community of the past TES games".
I have "played" Morrowind for a very long time but most of this time I have spend making mods and playing mods made by others. I bet that the majority of those who still play Skyrim do that for exactly the same reason.
And let's not forget about surprisingly big and active screenshot crowd which doesn't play the game but uses it as an inexpensive equivalent of Poser
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Not really.
The article is mainly about sold copies, so... After seeing how much copies goat simulator made I'm not really in the mood to talk about sells.
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Are you saying that Skyrim needs more goats?
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Ripper
Зичу Вам успіхів
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Priceless. :lol:
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The two words the universe would use to describe Dart, and he doesn't see it. Amusing. I guess I'm not grumpy and never whine about the things I don't like
Outside of that, I pretty much agree with Dart though. Skyrim isn't popular because it is single-player. It is popular because it it the best sandbox game ever made. Why is it the best? Again, Dart is right. Modding. Nobody would be playing Skyrim today if the vanilla experience is all there was. Skyrim lives forever because of the Skyrim Nexus and the Steam Workshop. There is a certain user that rhymes with boxer, that forces himself to play/bash Skyrim with no mods. However, that wasn't the developers intent. Even they intended, from the very beginning of development, that everyone who could mod would mod
Many of the other points are also valid. Skyrim is a great dress-up game, just ask Wolfgrimdark or the nude body modders. There is probably more clothing in Skyrim than in Walmart, and it all fits mumble, mumble, neck seam....mumble.
You can have cosplay with companions, another rare treat that is due to modding.
If the author would have titled his article Modding Skyrim - the Key to game longevity, Dart would have still found something wrong with it, but it would at least be accurate
Outside of that, I pretty much agree with Dart though. Skyrim isn't popular because it is single-player. It is popular because it it the best sandbox game ever made. Why is it the best? Again, Dart is right. Modding. Nobody would be playing Skyrim today if the vanilla experience is all there was. Skyrim lives forever because of the Skyrim Nexus and the Steam Workshop. There is a certain user that rhymes with boxer, that forces himself to play/bash Skyrim with no mods. However, that wasn't the developers intent. Even they intended, from the very beginning of development, that everyone who could mod would mod
Many of the other points are also valid. Skyrim is a great dress-up game, just ask Wolfgrimdark or the nude body modders. There is probably more clothing in Skyrim than in Walmart, and it all fits
mumble, mumble, neck seam....mumble.You can have cosplay with companions, another rare treat that is due to modding.
If the author would have titled his article Modding Skyrim - the Key to game longevity, Dart would have still found something wrong with it, but it would at least be accurate
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Ripper
Зичу Вам успіхів
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Yes, I agree with that part - I think the modding aspect of Skyrim is the key to its success. It's a giant fantasy doll house, and there's an element of The Sims appeal in there, which seems to be a massive draw. I'm surprised, actually, that more studios haven't cottoned on to that element, and emphasised modding to the same degree.
Having said all that, after a long day of dealing with other people's difficulties, the fact that Skyrim can be my own private single-player world is extremely appealing too.
Having said all that, after a long day of dealing with other people's difficulties, the fact that Skyrim can be my own private single-player world is extremely appealing too.
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No. I'm saying the article is aimed to phenomenon of Flappy Bird.
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D
DArtagnan
Guest
The two words the universe would use to describe Dart, and he doesn't see it. Amusing. I guess I'm not grumpy and never whine about the things I don't like
Outside of that, I pretty much agree with Dart though. Skyrim isn't popular because it is single-player. It is popular because it it the best sandbox game ever made. Why is it the best? Again, Dart is right. Modding. Nobody would be playing Skyrim today if the vanilla experience is all there was. Skyrim lives forever because of the Skyrim Nexus and the Steam Workshop. There is a certain user that rhymes with boxer, that forces himself to play/bash Skyrim with no mods. However, that wasn't the developers intent. Even they intended, from the very beginning of development, that everyone who could mod would mod
Many of the other points are also valid. Skyrim is a great dress-up game, just ask Wolfgrimdark or the nude body modders. There is probably more clothing in Skyrim than in Walmart, and it all fits
You can have cosplay with companions, another rare treat that is due to modding.
If the author would have titled his article Modding Skyrim - the Key to game longevity, Dart would have still found something wrong with it, but it would at least be accurate
Behind all that text, I detect a tingle of love for DArt
zahratustra
SasqWatch
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Yeah, kind of no brainer isn't it?
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Drithius
Magic & Loss
Skyrim is a complete joke without mods and it hasn't been forgotten today simply because of that malleability. To put Bethesda on a pedestal for their braindead writing and static worlds is just depressing.
And why hasn't anyone done better? Because it takes a long damn time/money to develop an engine + art assets to support a giant map and not croak, whereas Bethesda has been slowly recycling and tweaking their junk for the past 13 years. Well congratulations to them on finally putting out a game that is "pretty" enough to overcome the lack of any gameworld reactivity, horrible writing, and forgettable quest design.
And why hasn't anyone done better? Because it takes a long damn time/money to develop an engine + art assets to support a giant map and not croak, whereas Bethesda has been slowly recycling and tweaking their junk for the past 13 years. Well congratulations to them on finally putting out a game that is "pretty" enough to overcome the lack of any gameworld reactivity, horrible writing, and forgettable quest design.
I am a little surprise how well it sells. I forget which game came out when DKS was released - i think it was dragon age or witcher 2 - but I remeber reading some negative reviews and then picking it on a sale; hated the first 30 minutes and then loved the rest.
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Skyrim was sort of the opposite (well nto exactly). I loved the first couple hours but the longer I played the less I liked it - the reason is sort of like this - when I first start you have this huge expanse of a world and you find an overlook and you can see it spawning forever; but the longer you play the more mundane the quest becomes/item hunt/character building. The story is ok I guess ( relative to DKS) but it is horribly disappointing when you make a major decision and nothing else in the world reacts to it. It is like 5 second of oh wow and then you walk up to someone in town and it is like nothing happened. DKS was very different. Witcher 2 was also pretty good - i won't comment on dragon age (because it is party base).
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But you know there is a bit of marketing here - you have to play DKS a bit to get into the flow (or I did) while skyrim is very accessible at the start - it just falls apart later after you are already vested in it.
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DA:I vs Skyrim (ignoring that DA:I is party base); I never felt a need to complain about Skyrim user interface - it was all very natural - witcher 2 I saw a few compromises for console but it wasn't too bad (skyrim 9 witcher 2 7) but with DA:I I kept asking myself why did they do this - it is so damn annoying why not do that to the interface (little petty stuff - run/walk toggle - can't zoom out far enough with tactle camera - only 8 skill slot - and so on and so on). A bunch of petty stuff that just makes it annoying.
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That's why I think skyrim sells so well - it is easy to access and it looks very nice (DKS does not ahve the same polish in visuals but I think it was a more rewarding game). Not sure why no one mentions witcher 2 - maybe the story is too something or other for the skyrims crowd.
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Skyrim was sort of the opposite (well nto exactly). I loved the first couple hours but the longer I played the less I liked it - the reason is sort of like this - when I first start you have this huge expanse of a world and you find an overlook and you can see it spawning forever; but the longer you play the more mundane the quest becomes/item hunt/character building. The story is ok I guess ( relative to DKS) but it is horribly disappointing when you make a major decision and nothing else in the world reacts to it. It is like 5 second of oh wow and then you walk up to someone in town and it is like nothing happened. DKS was very different. Witcher 2 was also pretty good - i won't comment on dragon age (because it is party base).
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But you know there is a bit of marketing here - you have to play DKS a bit to get into the flow (or I did) while skyrim is very accessible at the start - it just falls apart later after you are already vested in it.
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DA:I vs Skyrim (ignoring that DA:I is party base); I never felt a need to complain about Skyrim user interface - it was all very natural - witcher 2 I saw a few compromises for console but it wasn't too bad (skyrim 9 witcher 2 7) but with DA:I I kept asking myself why did they do this - it is so damn annoying why not do that to the interface (little petty stuff - run/walk toggle - can't zoom out far enough with tactle camera - only 8 skill slot - and so on and so on). A bunch of petty stuff that just makes it annoying.
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That's why I think skyrim sells so well - it is easy to access and it looks very nice (DKS does not ahve the same polish in visuals but I think it was a more rewarding game). Not sure why no one mentions witcher 2 - maybe the story is too something or other for the skyrims crowd.
I think the Witcher 2 lost a ton of sales by making the protagonist an old, ugly, and scarred freak. That and all of the twitchy combat. It also has an "English is my 2nd or 3rd language" feel to the dialogue and voice overs.
Skyrim really requires role-playing to stay interesting for a long period of time. Those of us who have sunk hundreds or thousands of hours in the game always play a role and basically ignore the main game after a couple playthroughs. I don't disagree with anyone who complains about the writing or the reactiveness of the game. Those are extremely valid concerns. The Dragonborn mod is pretty good and so is Faalskar and a few other large mods. Much more reactive than the main campaign. The Civil War Overhaul helps a great deal in this too. I hope Bethesda fixes the writing and reactiveness of the next game.
Skyrim really requires role-playing to stay interesting for a long period of time. Those of us who have sunk hundreds or thousands of hours in the game always play a role and basically ignore the main game after a couple playthroughs. I don't disagree with anyone who complains about the writing or the reactiveness of the game. Those are extremely valid concerns. The Dragonborn mod is pretty good and so is Faalskar and a few other large mods. Much more reactive than the main campaign. The Civil War Overhaul helps a great deal in this too. I hope Bethesda fixes the writing and reactiveness of the next game.
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GothicGothicness
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Did you know that goat simulator is also full of bugs? Actually the developer thinks it is more fun this way... flying giants and such is the most fun thing that can happen in Skyrim too.
So maybe bugs sell ? this might be why all the major develops create such a buggy experiences ?
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@you
You described Skyrim almost identical as I would. I also loved first 5 hours of it and then got bored pretty fast. After 25h I decided to quit and I deinstalled the game immediately afterwards and was super angry at myself for wasting any time on it.
Why did I play 25h and not quit before? Because I could not admit to myself that this is it, this is all the game offers and I was trying to do one more quest that would show me I was wrong, go to another new area that would prove me wrong. For most of the time I didn't have fun but I was only stubborn.
But I can see the game lasting this long for other if mods are really good. The game had huge problems in almost every part of it, but a really dedicated modding community could fix it all.
But I am not much of a modding person, especially if I need to apply more than one mod. I hated modding BG1 and 2, I spent too much time trying to mod New Vegas with 5-6 mods that made it at least playable (to me). So I don't really play games for their mods and I don't consider excuses like "modding community will fix it" as valid for me.
You described Skyrim almost identical as I would. I also loved first 5 hours of it and then got bored pretty fast. After 25h I decided to quit and I deinstalled the game immediately afterwards and was super angry at myself for wasting any time on it.
Why did I play 25h and not quit before? Because I could not admit to myself that this is it, this is all the game offers and I was trying to do one more quest that would show me I was wrong, go to another new area that would prove me wrong. For most of the time I didn't have fun but I was only stubborn.
But I can see the game lasting this long for other if mods are really good. The game had huge problems in almost every part of it, but a really dedicated modding community could fix it all.
But I am not much of a modding person, especially if I need to apply more than one mod. I hated modding BG1 and 2, I spent too much time trying to mod New Vegas with 5-6 mods that made it at least playable (to me). So I don't really play games for their mods and I don't consider excuses like "modding community will fix it" as valid for me.
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What I walked away with from this article was that the author was saying that perhaps there should be more single player experiences. But I didn't really get the impression that he was stating there should be less multiplayer experiences.
I don't necessarily disagree with your reasoning here, philosophically. But practically speaking, IMHO, ESO is a rather good argument counter to yours. I really disliked online Elder Scrolls with COOxMine37 and L33T87 buzzing around me. I seem to prefer the solitude of Tamriel in a solo game. At the same time, I do enjoy other multiplayer games, even played WoW for a time.
I don't necessarily disagree with your reasoning here, philosophically. But practically speaking, IMHO, ESO is a rather good argument counter to yours. I really disliked online Elder Scrolls with COOxMine37 and L33T87 buzzing around me. I seem to prefer the solitude of Tamriel in a solo game. At the same time, I do enjoy other multiplayer games, even played WoW for a time.