The war on terror is over officially \o/

[V7]

I could have almost written the last two pages of this thread standing on my head.

What is it with this forum and a) God and B) Gun Control???

Okay--Carry on.

(even though the incident that sparked this conversation has almost absolutely nothing to do with availability of firearms in the US and everything to do with hate, anti-semitism and white supremacy cults, something that unfortunately exists all over the place.)

loonie shoots up museam - there's not a lot to discuss there

As for gun control I really don't care where the US laws are I'm just disputing the claim that guns arn't more lethal than the alternatives.

 

[dteowner]

You're mischaracterizing the position. Today guns probably are more lethal. Take them out of the picture tomorrow and something else every bit as lethal (probably moreso) will quickly fill the void.

Removing the tool does nothing to eliminate the underlying motivations--it just forces someone to develop a new tool.

 

[Squeek]

I hate it whenever I'm forced to develop a new tool (Don't ask me where, but there's a joke in there, somewhere).

Not good enough, dte! Not IMO, anyway. I think it would be all good if we got rid of guns. I say cops and spies can keep 'em, but that's it. Everybody else can just go join the military if they want to play with guns!

 

[Rithrandil]

He doesn't need to justify it though. It's in our constitution.

 

[Corwin]

That doesn't make it RIGHT!!

 

[Rithrandil]

And? The vast majority of people who own guns don't kill anyone. You're arguing that we should ban gun ownership because of the .001% who do. Which would be the exact same as me arguing we should ban religion because of the (much higher percentage) of people who do bad things in its name.

 

[magerette]

loonie shoots up museam - there's not a lot to discuss there

As for gun control I really don't care where the US laws are I'm just disputing the claim that guns arn't more lethal than the alternatives.

I wasn't particularly referring to your comments V7--just that we seem to have had this discussion before. I actually think the idea that propaganda and hate talk are fueling incidents of murder is a bit more interesting than the gun control debate, which we've already explored, but to each his own.

 

[Corwin]

And? The vast majority of people who own guns don't kill anyone. You're arguing that we should ban gun ownership because of the .001% who do. Which would be the exact same as me arguing we should ban religion because of the (much higher percentage) of people who do bad things in its name.

NO!! I just think you need more and better restrictions on just who can own a gun. You must have more gun owners per capita than any other nation on earth and you have the slackest gun control laws. Is it any wonder you have the problems with gun violence you do!!

 

[V7]

You're mischaracterizing the position. Today guns probably are more lethal. Take them out of the picture tomorrow and something else every bit as lethal (probably moreso) will quickly fill the void.

Something's always going to be more lethal tomorrow whether you take guns out of the picture or not, thats just technological progress and I'm personally pretty confidant that the sort of idiots who'd use their guns to kill other people arn't gonig to be the driving force behind new weapons thats the province of organised groups (governments, corporations and political movements usually rather than say your average postal worker) so banning them shouldn't have any effect on the speed at which new weapons are deployed (and I can't see any evidence of it happening in countries with better gun control either - indeed in trems of deployment of new weapon systems the main driver continues to be conflicts - suicide vest: Sri Lanka, car bomb: Israel, IED: Iraq etc.).

 

[Rithrandil]

NO!! I just think you need more and better restrictions on just who can own a gun. You must have more gun owners per capita than any other nation on earth and you have the slackest gun control laws. Is it any wonder you have the problems with gun violence you do!!

And dte and I have both said we want to have more restrictions. But once again, this is not a gun control issue, and turning it into one is stupid.

 

[dteowner]

NO!! I just think you need more and better restrictions on just who can own a gun. You must have more gun owners per capita than any other nation on earth and you have the slackest gun control laws. Is it any wonder you have the problems with gun violence you do!!

So then, let me get this logic straight. You've got a group of people with the mentality necessary to kill someone, which, let us not forget, is illegal. They clearly aren't terribly worried about the rule of law. And your answer is to pass more laws to control them?

 

[Prime Junta]

Uh... guys? As far as I can tell, everybody here agrees that you need more and better restrictions over gun ownership. So what are y'all arguing about?

 

[Rithrandil]

Because this isn't a gun control issue (Squeek said to ban guns altogether, btw). I'm arguing still because I'm pissed that people are trying to turn this into a gun control issue. How about we talk about the more important point, you know, that there are radical xenophobist racial extremist religious terrorists who want to run around and kill others?

 

[Prime Junta]

Okay, carry on then, I guess...

 

[Rithrandil]

Hey, I didn't want this to go to gun control, and I'm not the one who tried to turn a post about a sad event, terrorism, and racism into a thread about "why the us should ban guns". I guess I could smile and nod meekly and pretend I agree that we either should ban guns or that it's a relevant issue to what happened, but then I'd be lying, and if people want to bring that up I'll just say we should ban religion since most white supremacists (well, all, in the US) are also religious fanatics as well.

 

[Corwin]

Sorry, but I see the issue of gun control being an integral part of this incident. If the guy hadn't had easy access to a gun, perhaps that guard would still be alive!!

 

[Squeek]

If the guy hadn't had easy access to a gun, perhaps that guard would still be alive!!

Absolutely. If he had been forced to consider using another weapon, he may never have committed this crime. Guns are far too convenient.

 

[V7]

Perhaps somone can split the thread into War on terror, gun control and museam shoothing threads?

 

[Prime Junta]

We could throw in a "Who's to blame" thread too. Glenn Beck is blaming Obama for making the white folks mad; Arianna Huffington is blaming Glenn Beck, and the KKK is blaming Von Brunn, and pointing out that they're not a hate group, they're a *love* group. Plenty of stuff to talk about, there.

 

[Rithrandil]

I like that idea. Wait, Glenn Beck is blaming Obama? I'm not sure if I want to ask you for a link to that. I think it may snap the final strains of my sanity, like seeing Cthulhu rising out of R'lyeh or something.

Ph'nglui mglw'nafh C'thulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!

Or something.