Being intolerant with neo nazi

[Darth Tagnan]

Here's a thought:

Let's say there's such a thing as a Neo Nazi. I'm not sure exactly what that means, beyond the words meaning "New National Socialist" - right?

Let's say we have a spectrum of Nazism.

Ignoring the rather relevant political aspect of the totalitarian regime thing, let's focus on the race thing - as I assume that's what this is mostly about.

On the one end, we have the "weak" Nazi - the one that thinks maybe genes matter and maybe there's such a thing as racial purity - though he's not exactly certain what that means. He doesn't really know much at all about these things, but his experience with a few hundred people in life has made him question if race is an issue.

On the other end, we have a guy that's fully convinced that race is an issue - and that the "Aryan race" is clearly superior and worthy of life - where as other races are clearly inferior and unworthy of life.

Are these people one and the same? Can we - with absolute certainty - condemn them both equally by moralising and considering ourselves superior enough to have that luxury?

 

[Winterfart]

Spreading and banalizing nazi ideals is illegal in most case in Germany and always dangerous.
I don't get why it's such a hard concept to get for so many of you (sheltered existence is my guess).
Who he is doesn't matter, his action does (again: spreading and banalizing)

Don't give a shit if he's the real deal or not, I won't accept that in a game I support (and have supported for a long time now).
And guess what, Ceres agrees with that.

Anyway, it's over now, you can all return to your apathetic ways.

 

[Darth Tagnan]

Sometimes, emotions take over your brain - and you see enemies everywhere.

I guess you don't have to be a Nazi for such a thing to happen.

 

[Winterfart]

Sometimes, emotions take over your brain - and you see enemies everywhere.

I guess you don't have to be a Nazi for such a thing to happen.

True, and sometimes emotions helps you doing the right thing. Why do you think Hobgob' took action?
Do you really don't care having a nazi sympathizer (because he is, I guess you didn't research him because it's indeniable; On deviant art especially) writting a game you play.
I know I don't, and I repeat: Ceres Studio and German laws agrees with me.

I'm not ashamed of my emotions, I never will and I find it hilarious how internet people are so proud to (pretend to) be emotionless.
They call that "being neutral", but they just don't give a shit about anything.

 

[Darth Tagnan]

True, and sometimes emotions helps you doing the right thing. Why do you think Hobgob' took action?
Do you really don't care having a nazi sympathizer (because he is, I guess you didn't research him because it's indeniable; On deviant art especially) writting a game you play.
I know I don't, and I repeat: Ceres Studio and German laws agrees with me.

I'm not ashamed of my emotions, I never will and I find it hilarious how internet people are so proud to (pretend to) be emotionless.
They call that "being neutral", but they just don't give a shit about anything.

You don't seem to view people as complete or nuanced. You have this excessive labeling thing going on, where people belong in box A (psycho) or box B (agree with you) - and that's not really how I see reality.

I don't "take people away from my existence" because they say something I don't immediately appreciate.

So, I don't think there's much chance of a productive exchange - especially not while your blood is up in this way.

Once you're willing to allow for nuance and accept that maybe I don't agree with you for some other reason than being a psycho Nazi - we can perhaps talk about it.

For now, I suggest we keep it to talk about games

 

[Winterfart]

I don't "take people away from my existence" because they say something I don't immediately appreciate.

@Silver Coin; already posted it multiple time: the paradox of tolerance.
I have nothing to add.

For now, I suggest we keep it to talk about games

I think you're right.

 

[Damian]

They want you to be silenced and you want them to be silenced. Would you be happy if both of you are silenced? Anything less is hypocrisy.

All this really boils down to is "a set of rules for thee that doesnt apply to me".

 

[Grimlorn]

That's true. I dont like SJWs as a catch all term either. And I dont condone violence on anyone.

Except this idea about violence always being wrong is what has led to corruption festering throughout Western society. As people have been allowed to slowly erode free speech, liberty and free thought under a guise of being tolerant, protecting people's feelings and being antifascist. Perhaps if there were a balance at the academic level between left and right ideology along with rigorous debate, it would be different but right now people are becoming more and more radicalized.

Logic and reason are being thrown out the window in favor of feelings and emotions. There's something quite perverse about twisting people's good natures and basic empathy into willingly sacrificing their own freedom and liberties. Truth and justice are on their way out as well.

You can see the violent rhetoric for Nazis in these forums. No one likes Nazis and wants them dead, and more and more people are increasingly being called Nazis to dehumanize them so they can dismiss any opinions or ideas they have and so they can rationalize being violent against them.

I don't see how you can reach these people like antifa who are increasingly becoming more and more violent along with the far leftists who slander anyone right of them as Nazis. The longer it goes on the more lives will be ruined and the deeper we'll sink into an Orwellian society where truth isn't tolerated.

 

[Darth Tagnan]

Anti-violence is hardly what's led to corruption. What a stupid notion.

Corruption is an inherent part of any system governed by human beings - and it has nothing to do with anti-violence.

The only difference today, from the past, is that every human being has been given a voice - should he or she choose to use it.

Given how ignorant and flawed we are - it's not exactly a surprise that ignorance gets confused with truth - when we're all spreading misinformation so freely.

 

[Grimlorn]

Anti-violence is hardly what's led to corruption. What a stupid notion.

Corruption is an inherent part of any system governed by human beings - and it has nothing to do with anti-violence.

The only difference today, from the past, is that every human being has been given a voice - should he or she choose to use it.

Given how ignorant and flawed we are - it's not exactly a surprise that ignorance gets confused with truth - when we're all spreading misinformation so freely.

Yes and the threat of violence is suppose to keep people in check. Always saying violence is wrong and to never be condoned while a group of people slowly erode truth and freedom while instituting more control over what we say and think. How far are we going to plunge into an Orwellian society before people say enough?

PS I didn't mean corruption only comes from anti-violence. It is inherent in human nature. Just in this example I see rational people use this argument that violence is always wrong no matter what. I disagree with this notion. Violence is the only way to remove the corrupt from power and pressure them into not taking away your basic freedoms and liberties.

I just don't see tens of millions of people protesting in a meaningful way to stop corruption. Most are too busy living their lives and won't risk losing their jobs or driving the economy into a depression. You also couldn't get them to a consensus about anything as most wouldn't have any good ideas or know how to fix things. It would end up like OWS.

 

[Darth Tagnan]

Well, to each his own.

Personally, I look at these things case-by-case. I think it's relatively obvious that violence can be a necessary evil - given a sufficiently unfortunate set of circumstances, but it's not something I like to make into a principle. Certainly not enough to preach in support of violence upon people I disagree with.

Then again, I disagree with most people about a lot of things - so it would be a very violent way of life if I had to deal with them in that way.

 

[Darth Tagnan]

I just don't see tens of millions of people protesting in a meaningful way to stop corruption. Most are too busy living their lives and won't risk losing their jobs or driving the economy into a depression. You also couldn't get them to a consensus about anything as most wouldn't have any good ideas or know how to fix things. It would end up like OWS.

You can't stop human nature. Killing a lot of people who disagree with your world view won't magically stop corruption for the future generations.

The only way to circumvent the problem with corruption is to create a system that's not governed by human beings.

 

[Grimlorn]

You can't stop human nature. Killing a lot of people who disagree with your world view won't magically stop corruption for the future generations.

The only way to circumvent the problem with corruption is to create a system that's not governed by human beings.

No it's like a cycle. It always goes this way because people can't help themselves. But I know if SJW/Antifa types take over there would likely be mass purges and millions would die. A war is preferable to that imo. 100 million people died in the 20th century. I don't want to see something like that happen again.

 

[Darth Tagnan]

You sound like you need to take a walk outside and talk to real people instead of living inside a bubble of insanely uninformed prejudice.

 

[lostforever]

You sound like you need to take a walk outside and talk to real people instead of living inside a bubble of insanely uninformed prejudice.

What bubble? I don't want war but don't for minute think that the Antifa and Communist type won't turn on you once they get power....

 

[Damian]

What bubble? I don't want war but don't for minute think that the Antifa and Communist type won't turn on you once they get power….

Antifa are only a problem because the government dont stop their violence, the cops just stand on the sidelines as they hurt people physically with weapons.

 

[Cacheperl]

Real cute diversion tactics right here.

 

[Couchpotato]

Real cute diversion tactics right here.

Maybe but Damian & lostforever have a point Antifa are a menace. Most always show up in riot gear and antagonize, or start violent counter protests. They don't come in peace.

Many defenders of the Antifa cause insist these loosely organized activists are simply anti-fascist, and that fighting fascism is some kind of get-out-of-jail-free card for lawlessness, violence, and intimidation. That’s nonsense. The state has a monopoly on all violence save for self-defense. In a nation of laws, people cannot exempt themselves from the rules because they don’t like someone’s ideas.

Even if fighting fascists were a get-out-of-jail-free card, giving a bunch of adrenalized anarchists unilateral authority to designate fascists strikes me as an incandescently stupid idea. Antifa’s understanding of what qualifies as fascist includes conservative campus speakers, defenders of free speech, and even plain old Republicans.

And yet, college administrators, local politicians, and police departments, particularly in places like Berkeley, have given Antifa protesters a kind of benefit of the doubt. And so have some in the media who think there’s something romantically heroic about direct action and, in the Trump era, resistance.

But yeah that's not the reason for this thread.

 

[Cacheperl]

I'm no fan of ANTIFA either. (Although I dont think they are organized well enough to be actually dangerous for society as a whole. They are not very efficient in fighting fascism for the very same reason. But yeah, I'd prefer to have protests where they are not involved.)

 

[Damian]

I am just saying I would have no problem with Antifa if the Government does its job.