BG3 Let's discuss the ending of BG3 (massive spoiler, obviously)

[Silver]

...
For my part, I see the lore and the ruleset edition (or even the ruleset) as completely different things. Same with the graphics engine and whether it's TB or RTwP. It's not related to the story.

Not that any of those things are related to BG3's ending.

Different rulesets are just different ways to play your character. There are some lore differences between 2nd and 5th edition D&D. Infravision and the way it works comes to mind, as well as story beats around the Drow. But yeah the overall story is unchanged except perhaps inadvertantly. The changes are mostly cosmetic with lots of the races not looking like they stereotypically have looked which has to be explained by lore but which isn't making things not very realistic or immersive to me.

edit: Not that it changes the ending in anyway.

 

[Morrandir]

Do you really need to see something like that though? Personally, I'd rather discover it on my own.

I'd like to have some kind of visualization of the area where the plot happens, especially if geographical features are somewhat relevant to the plot.
If this visualization is presented without doing anything, it would already be fine. It would of course be better if we could somehow discover it in-game. However it's debatable if it makes sense in BG3 because Tav as a local (if he isn't Drow or Githyanki) should know the area anyway.

In BG3 the geographical features are relevant as I've tried to point out before. Tav is said that for various reasons it's difficult to get to the city or to to Moonrise towers. But I'd like to see why I have to travel through a mountain pass or the Underdark. I also would have liked to see why I need to cross the Shadowcursed Lands in the first place. Why don't we just go around and approach the Moonrise Towers from the south? Can't we just take a ship or raft along the river Chiontar and skip all the problems?

 

[Vaelith]

In BG3 the geographical features are relevant as I've tried to point out before. Tav is said that for various reasons it's difficult to get to the city or to to Moonrise towers. But I'd like to see why I have to travel through a mountain pass or the Underdark. I also would have liked to see why I need to cross the Shadowcursed Lands in the first place. Why don't we just go around and approach the Moonrise Towers from the south? Can't we just take a ship or raft along the river Chiontar and skip all the problems?

I understand having a map helps to situate yourself, and they could have included one in the game, it wouldn't have taken them any effort, as there are hundreds of Faerun maps floating around with a Google search. From the information you get in the game, you begin the adventure somewhere between Elturel and Baldur's Gate, across the river Chiontar, the precise location you can more or less guesstimate.

That aside, wondering why you have to go that way is a little pointless. The reason you have to go that way is simple: because the plot says you have to go that way. The main character is funneled down an exciting path where things will happen, instead of a three-thousand-mile detour around the forest that will get you to the same place safely. LotR is the master of that, but so is every other story found in games, movies or shows, really, it's standard practice to force the "heroes" down a path where exciting action will take place, because that's the point of telling the story. You are given a sense of urgency "The tadpole could take over anytime!" or "the ring needs to be destroyed asap!" to hurry the player to take action so there's actually a story to be told without wondering why didn't we just wait around for a traveling elven mage to teleport us to the city straight away and be done with it.

 

[Redglyph]

Also, the city isn't immediately the destination. They start with other pointers, when they think there are other potential solutions. Then the plot thickens and it appears they'll head to the city. At that point, they also have to visit other places that aren't along the Chiotar.

I'd also argue that, even if Tav was a local (is he? I thought he was a Baldurian), he surely never visited the goblin camp, the Underdark, or many of the other places that he probably doesn't even know. His knowledge of the environment is probably close to what you see in the game, except in Baldur's Gate, so showing an overall map wouldn't be correct, and it would at best spoil a part of the plot.

According to that logic, it's strange to have the fog of war in Baldur's Gate, though. That would probably be overthinking it.

 

[Morrandir]

From the information you get in the game, you begin the adventure somewhere between Elturel and Baldur's Gate, across the river Chiontar,

Ok, I somehow missed this. I'll (hopefully) pay more attention on my next playthrough (which most likely will be a Cleric of Bane).

That aside, wondering why you have to go that way is a little pointless. The reason you have to go that way is simple: because the plot says you have to go that way.

Yes, I thought that way too. However, on a second thought it really makes sense to have to go to the Moonrise towers. After all the options (Nettie, goblin priestess, crèche,...) failed to remove the tadpole, you earn that they come from Moonrise. So it very much makes sense to go there and look for clues.
After that going to the city also makes sense.

I'd also argue that, even if Tav was a local (is he? I thought he was a Baldurian),

Yes, I mean as a Baldurian. Perhaps my wording was incorrect. I meant that he was "local to the region" if that makes sense?

he surely never visited the goblin camp, the Underdark, or many of the other places that he probably doesn't even know.

Yes, these places should be unknown to him (if he isn't Drow).

His knowledge of the environment is probably close to what you see in the game, except in Baldur's Gate, so showing an overall map wouldn't be correct, and it would at best spoil a part of the plot.

I think he should know the general layout of the region and his rough location, which could be displayed as a map or at least in some dialog like "Ok, I guess I'm about 20 miles upstream from the city. Hm... if I want to got to Moonrise, I would have to take the mountain pass."
Btw. I think Baldurian Tav also should know about the existence of the Shadowcursed lands.

According to that logic, it's strange to have the fog of war in Baldur's Gate, though. That would probably be overthinking it.

Yep! I expected the city to be without FoW.

 

[Vaelith]

Ok, I somehow missed this. I'll (hopefully) pay more attention on my next playthrough (which most likely will be a Cleric of Bane).

You're not told explicitly, the tieflings say they are refugees escaping Elturel, headed for Baldur's Gate, and you see a river and several bridges across (one of them is destroyed in a video sequence), which makes for a rather trivial deduction if you're familiar with that part of Faerun. I think to remember the river Chiontar is mentioned by some NPCs, but in any case, someone who isn't familiar with Faerun wouldn't get it.

I do agree to have a map would have been nice, even if just as part of the loading screens when traveling between areas. After all the work they did in the game where they didn't cut short on any details, it feels like that would have been rather trivial. It's likely they just didn't think it was necessary.

 

[ChaosTheory]

Having just become one of the 15% who finished this (according to Steam), I thought overall it was an outstanding game but the end fight was pretty janky. I didn't mind the epilogue though, I got mostly what I expected.

Not many games will be this good. Not many gaming years will be this good.

 

[bjon045]

Not many game will be this good. Not many gaming years will be this good.

Very true. We are very lucky to have seen another golden age for cRPG's (and gaming in general). I hope Larian gives us a good expansion/large DLC to warrant a return to Baldur's Gate 3.

 

[Pladio]

Edit: Did everyone just side with the Emperor perhaps? If so, nobody has to turn into an Illithid, but the Emperor does explain that an Illithid needs to be present, which still doesn't make any sense.

I had Orpheus turn into one...

Sorry, late to party so reading through comments now.

 

[Couchpotato]

I don't think BG3 could be a sequel to BG2.

Late reply but Dark Urge Origin begs to differ. That is the true campaign and sequel.

 

[Silver]

Late reply but Dark Urge Origin begs to differ. That is the true campaign and sequel.

I was speaking more to overall style than plot but fair point.

 

[Couchpotato]

Oh I know I just did a little selective editing. Though your correct about the different ruleset. I rarely noticed it except the changes to paladins which I didn't like.

Though tabletop vs the game is a different experiance overall.

 

[Vaelith]

It would have been so weird if BG3 used AD&D ruleset in 2023. I would have hated it, personally. Dead archaic systems are good where they are, buried in the past. The logical and natural way to make a DnD-based BG sequel is by using the DnD ruleset that's current at the time of the game's release, just as BG1 and 2 used the DnD rulesets that were current at the time of their release.

 

[Pladio]

That is true, and normally I would agree, but this is a direct sequel within the same form of media. It's like King's Landing getting rearranged between seasons 2 and 3 of the television series.

I think the Iron Throne in House of the Dragon is completely different actually - as an example.

 

[Pladio]

I don't think Larian would like to encourage not using something in the game. Maybe it could have granted an achievement, but they didn't try to make relevant achievements for BG3.

I wonder what happens to the characters who accept to do the hybrid Illithid transformation. Should they be left in that state in the ending (which I suppose is the case now)?

No, when the tadpole left my chars, they became normal again...

 

[Pladio]

So, with a bit more time on my hands.

I played the game as a Warlock who turned Paladin Oathbreaker. My RP was that my patron wanted more and more power and essentially used the tadpole to make me as powerful as possible and in turn himself. So my 'canon' ending is me forcing Orpheus to turn Illithid to win and then take over as the Absolute.

Overall, that ending was almost exactly what I had in mind. I was expecting a tiny bit more knowledge of how that future ended up looking like rather than me just smiling on my crown, but it was in principle exactly what I wanted.

I did look at a few alternate endings. I find the going to Avernus with Karlach an interesting one, which could be its own DLC or even its own game, where you Wyll and Karlach go to defeat Zariel. In terms of tone, it didn't fit my character, but it's a better one in terms of 'real life'.

I tried having Gale explode, which felt too easy and took power out me as the main character.

---

In terms of the end game battle, I actually felt it was too easy. The siege up to the tower was really well done, but the enemies were too easy to beat. Once you summon your allies, you have more people than the enemy. I could have theoretically not done anything and still won. The final, final battle was a bit harder, but mostly because there was a dragon there. The rest of the enemies were useless. I killed the Emperor in two turns and he couldn't do anything.

---

I still think this is probably one of the best games I have ever played even though it has many quirks and things that did annoy me. I hate timed quests, and there were a few of them including Nere in the Underdark and the Iron Throne rescue.

 

[Redglyph]

In terms of the end game battle, I actually felt it was too easy. The siege up to the tower was really well done, but the enemies were too easy to beat. Once you summon your allies, you have more people than the enemy. I could have theoretically not done anything and still won. The final, final battle was a bit harder, but mostly because there was a dragon there. The rest of the enemies were useless. I killed the Emperor in two turns and he couldn't do anything.

I had the impression both parts of the end battle simply required to have enough transport abilities like Dimension Door, Misty Step, and Shadow Step, as for the Iron Throne. Otherwise, you're in for a long and difficult fight.

 

[Pladio]

I had the impression both parts of the end battle simply required to have enough transport abilities like Dimension Door, Misty Step, and Shadow Step, as for the Iron Throne. Otherwise, you're in for a long and difficult fight.

You can basically skip both battles using some tricks, but they're easy fights.
The final battle, you could simply run to the end with dashes and use dome of invulnerability or whatever it's called and you're done.

The big siege battle, you can probably sneak past if you want by simply going invisible for 10 turns.

Unlike the Iron Throne, they're not times.

 

[Vaelith]

I did the final ascent on my original playthrough without summoning anyone, and it was already easy enough on Tactical. By the time you get there, your party is obscenely overpowered. The difficulty of that section isn't really above the things you fought shortly before, so I imagine that was more related to the plot and the feeling of having your allies by your side than the challenge itself. They likely went soft on the encounters to not penalize people who didn't manage to get any allies because of their choices in a way that it would make the game nearly impossible to finish.

 

[Redglyph]

You can basically skip both battles using some tricks, but they're easy fights.
The final battle, you could simply run to the end with dashes and use dome of invulnerability or whatever it's called and you're done.

The big siege battle, you can probably sneak past if you want by simply going invisible for 10 turns.

Unlike the Iron Throne, they're not times.

Spoiler

The dragon was OK-ish, but the other enemies were destroying my party very quickly, even with an ally - maybe I chose the wrong one. After a while, it looked desperate enough and I just restarted the fight and rushed to the portal, so it was timed for me. I put the caster (here, the Emperor) comfortably in a Globe of Invulnerability, with as many others as possible, and that was it.

The next part was very easy, just by transporting everyone from platforms destroyed by the brain and giving it a few good kicks.