Risen 2 - PC Version Released

[Kostas]

The contrast between the image the reviews provided and those who were familiar with PB's style did is unlike anything I've seen.

 

[Couchpotato]

Will someone please, those who play this game, explain to me why some reviews gave such low scores to this game? Did they play this game at all?
I never expected to have so much fun with a game that got massacred by some reviewers.

Different tastes in games. If you played any of PB games you know what to expect. They all follow the same formula. It's sad but PB games are not Bioware or Bethesda.

So to summarize PB games are enjoyable but always lack something to make them stand out and shine. Till they do nothing will change.

 

[DArtagnan]

Will someone please, those who play this game, explain to me why some reviews gave such low scores to this game? Did they play this game at all?
I never expected to have so much fun with a game that got massacred by some reviewers.

It doesn't give a good first impression (vital for mainstream audience) - and it's not showered in AAA production levels. The animations are somewhat clumsy, and it's full of visual quirks.

It's rather frustrating at first, because they've opted for real challenge. They expect the player to WANT to invest in the game, to get better. Obviously, that's not desirable if you're used to being guided and hand-held through an "experience" - like is the norm for most mainstream titles.

Even "experienced" reviewers have been conditioned by the norm, and I'm not surprised they'd bash the game for being frustrating and somewhat clunky.

I do think it's surprising that so few mainstream reviews manage to dig deeper and realise what the game is trying to do - and it seems the level of ignorance regarding the combat system is total.

But, unless the game changes significantly from this point (14 hours in) - it's one of the best games I've ever played - and the best GOTY candidate for me at this point.

Also, I tweaked the config files so that the LOD issues are rather minimal - and I think the game is VERY good looking. Mostly in terms of the lighting engine - and it has the most beautiful weather effects in my experience. The use of 5.1 audio is also really superb, with strong ambient sounds. It's truly a masterpiece of "piratey" atmosphere.

It's Secret of the Monkey Island come to life

 

[JonNik]

I must admit I am a bit pleasantly surprised by your enthusiasm

Cannot really comment due to not having actually started to play but the bit about animal AI above sounds pretty much like any PB game to date (except perhaps G3) and certainly better that what I have seen from my limited time with it :
i.e just clicking mindlessly to kill claw monkeys that did an inane one step forth one step back, or stood there growling at my companion while I killed them (it took several hits)... Good to know that it gets better...

How does the illusion of an open world holds up in regards to the small islands ?

 

[vurt]

Which weathers does it have, only rain?

 

[DArtagnan]

How does the illusion of an open world holds up in regards to the small islands ?

Well, I haven't gotten my own ship yet, so I can't really say how that changes things.

But as for the sensation of being non-linear and open, I think it's very strong. I spent more than 10 hours on the first island, which was surprising to me. I did everything in the order I wanted to - and there are LOTS of quests that can be solved in multiple ways.

A fantastic addition is how they've included Intimidate and Silver Tongue talents. These are used very often, and they matter quite a bit. You really have to invest in these talents to make use of them, and I'd say they're a part of roughly 50% of all dialogues. So, some rather significant C&C here.

Also, there are locks and challenges that you won't be able to overcome on your first visit - so there are many reasons to go back.

As a nice detail, every merchant has their own individual "buy back" section - which means that you can always travel back and get what you thought you wouldn't need. I've sold several things that has turned out to be useful, so I have an extra reason to go back

As a refreshing change, having enough gold is EVERYTHING in this game. You really appreciate the loot you find, which is very fitting given the setting

I was worried that the islands were too small - but I find that's not at all the case. It should be noted, however, that I'm an obsessive explorer. I LOVE the worlds of PB - and as such, I feel that everything needs to be seen. Very much unlike the TES games (including Fallout 3 and Skyrim) - where I generally tire of exploring way before the end.

I'm on the second island (not including the small tutorial island) - and it looks significantly bigger than the second island, so I expect at least another 10 hours worth of content here.

Also, I've just encountered my first "big" choice - in terms of going with one of the factions. I actually expected not to have to make such a choice, given all the complaints about no factions in various reviews. So, while you might not get to join one in true Gothic style - it certainly feels like you're doing it in this case.

But remember that all this is just my opinion of the game at a relatively early stage. Things can change - and I don't really know how much of the game there is. If you include the two quest DLCs - I can see this having 45-50 hours worth of rich and varied content.

 

[DArtagnan]

Which weathers does it have, only rain?

So far, I've seen rain and thunder. But the lighting engine - an evolution of the already beautiful Risen lighting engine - is superb.

The day/night cycle is really, REALLY well done. It's literally like stepping into another world when waking up at night. The ambient sounds are great for this as well.

 

[Deleted User]

Dartagnan is making the game sound great. I hope it retains some of that when the console version is released for us non-PC gamers .

 

[vurt]

So far, I've seen rain and thunder. But the lighting engine - an evolution of the already beautiful Risen lighting engine - is superb.

The day/night cycle is really, REALLY well done. It's literally like stepping into another world when waking up at night. The ambient sounds are great for this as well.

Good to hear. Will definitely buy if they care to fix the morphing vegetation and other various bugs..

I agree with you that PB's games are really interesting and fun to explore, their biggest strength imo, Bethesda could learn a few things from them when it comes to world design.

 

[DArtagnan]

Good to hear. Will definitely buy if they care to fix the morphing vegetation and other various bugs..

I agree with you that PB's games are really interesting and fun to explore, their biggest strength imo, Bethesda could learn a few things from them when it comes to world design.

I'm not sure the morphing thing will be fixed. My "instinct" tells me it's just a very odd choice that's part of the visual engine.

The good news is that you don't notice it after a few hours. I was incredibly turned off by it in the beta, and I was ready to not play it for the full release. But after I decided to "let it go" - I literally don't notice it at all now. I'm not even sure it's present at the second island.

My tweaks could be a part of that though, and I've set the numbers rather high.

I agree that Bethesda can learn from PB, but I don't think Bethesda should necessarily emulate PB. They're going for a much more open experience - that's more about total player flexibility in all ways. I don't see them creating a world that can compare to PB - and I don't think PB can create a TES style world either.

What I DO think Bethesda (and many others) can learn from PB - is the approach to mechanics and balance. PB seems to understand how to balance an open world with just the right difficulty curve. Obviously, it's easier to do on a smaller scale - which PB deals with - but still.

I know lots of mainstreamers would hate that - but they could make it optional.

But oh well, can't have it all.

Also, I like the low-key 100% plausible approach to a fantasy story/world of PB 1000x more than the sickening melodrama of Bioware (where all the tough bad guys have trouble talking to women and need soothing advice from Shepherd) and the over-the-top spectacle of Bethesda stuff.

 

[JonNik]

But remember that all this is just my opinion of the game at a relatively early stage. Things can change - and I don't really know how much of the game there is. If you include the two quest DLCs - I can see this having 45-50 hours worth of rich and varied content.

If that is so it is certainly acceptable. No where near the 30-35 hours claimed by people saying that they got through most of the content.

Also very much liking the silver tongue talents but those are among the bits I already had seen from the beta that made me say that there were a lot of nice ideas in the character system… Its depth I am concerned about…

All in all this is starting to sound better that I could have hopped for…

Good. I hope I will have wrapped up my Arx replay by the end of this weekend and I get to enjoy it myself

 

[txa1265]

The contrast between the image the reviews provided and those who were familiar with PB's style did is unlike anything I've seen.

I think DArtagnan stated it best when talking about the rather clunky and uninviting opening act. I don't think any reasonable person would deny that Risen 2 makes a crappy first impression - even compared to the original Risen!

The performance is worse for the same looking visuals at the start (until you get into INI file tweaking, which for me says the developers have failed to optimize the game to a reasonable level), having to whack your first enemies ~20 times is annoying rather than challenging, and the removal of the Q and E to steer around reeks of consolitis.

There are MANY *valid* reasons why the game would make a crappy first impression ... while some games have a 'learning curve', Risen 2 has a 'liking curve' - if you like it from the start you might just be an apologist, but if you fail to like it after a few hours you have lost your ability to appreciate what a great game can offer.

And that is my problem with the reviews - they read like the people played for a few hours, got annoyed and ripped the game a new one. Reviewers are supposed to persevere past the initial quirks and play to the end.

 

[Alistair]

I agree, though the same is true of us - we've all reached the Sword Coast and are having a great time. For all we know, the game peters out like, ooooh, Risen. I think good reviews would take a couple of weeks and I don't know how many reviewers have done that yet…

Thanks for the combat suggestions Dartagnan - do you find you're able to avoid charges with normal movement? In the absence of a dodge move, the normal movement seemed too clunky to me for maneuvers like this.

 

[JDR13]

we've all reached the Sword Coast and are having a great time. For all we know, the game peters out like, ooooh, Risen.

I'm quite a bit further than that, and it's not showing any signs of a late-game letdown for me.

I've been playing pretty much non-stop since I got it, but I'm really taking my time with it and being extra thorough. I don't want it to end.

Best PB game since Gothic 2+NotR imo.

 

[DArtagnan]

I agree, though the same is true of us - we've all reached the Sword Coast and are having a great time. For all we know, the game peters out like, ooooh, Risen. I think good reviews would take a couple of weeks and I don't know how many reviewers have done that yet…

Thanks for the combat suggestions Dartagnan - do you find you're able to avoid charges with normal movement? In the absence of a dodge move, the normal movement seemed too clunky to me for maneuvers like this.

I'm playing on hard, so I can't say how it might be on other difficulty levels.

I'd say if you make use of the "sprint" button, you can avoid most attacks - but it does get much harder with multiple opponents. You can't avoid the odd camera angle resulting in accidental death - here and there, but I find that everything gets more comfortable as you learn to get a handle on things. Kinda like Demon's Souls and Dark Souls.

Especially because you can't "exploit" the AI as easily as other PB games. I've yet to find a way to "separate" beasties from packs - for instance.

That said, I rarely go out of my way to exploit the AI. There's always a way in these games, and I'm sure that's true for Risen 2 as well. I'd much rather play the game as it was intended, and any exploits I find will be accidental.

But, so far, I think the balance is perfect for the "first act" of a challenging game.

I prefer games that start out as a struggle to learn and overcome harsh conditions, and I think the "third and last act" is perfect if you get to feel like a real bad ass - just as long as it's because you've developed your character in a smart way. The "middle act" should be a combination of challenge and push-overs - as you learn patterns/timing and you upgrade your gear and abilities.

 

[DArtagnan]

I'm quite a bit further than that, and it's not showing any signs of a late-game letdown for me.

I've been playing pretty much non-stop since I got it, but I'm really taking my time with it and being extra thorough. I don't want it to end.

Best PB game since Gothic 2+NotR imo.

May I ask how many hours you've played and how much you have left (estimate)?

Also, do you have all DLC?

 

[Melvil]

I've also been running around The Sword Coast thinking to myself, "best PB game yet?" Just learned as much Voodoo as I can, with a high Cunning/Toughness character with enough Sword skill to get by...and it works. The off hand cooldown attack also adds a new dimension to the combat that hasn't been there before, slightly more strategic, and as Dtarg said, each monster has a specific method that must be learned. Crocodiles have been very tough so far, but you let them charge, dodge and then you can stay behind them and kill them one power attack at a time. This is realistic, crocs don't turn well, but they are fast as hell straight on.

 

[txa1265]

I prefer games that start out as a struggle to learn and overcome harsh conditions, and I think the "third and last act" is perfect if you get to feel like a real bad ass - just as long as it's because you've developed your character in a smart way. The "middle act" should be a combination of challenge and push-overs - as you learn patterns/timing and you upgrade your gear and abilities.

Totally agree - I remember the first time I picked up Gothic 2 (my first PB game), I played less than 30 minutes and put it away for a month. I was so used to being able to handle anything I met in any game that I ignored the 'don't stray from the path' warnings and died in multiple frustrating ways ... and blamed the combat system rather than appreciating the challenge.

 

[Alistair]

One thing I am liking is the way maps work... at some points you seem not to have one, so you have to acquire one in-game, really paying attention to your navigation, getting horribly lost (and dealing with the areas, beasts, quests you run into because of this). Then you acquire one and can at least try and navigate from A to B, and once you've been everywhere you get the fast travel options between key points. I think that works very well. I wish there were more and less accurate maps drawn by different people in different styles too...

 

[JDR13]

May I ask how many hours you've played and how much you have left (estimate)?

Also, do you have all DLC?

My latest save game is around 30 hours, but my actual play time is significantly more. I'm guessing I'm about 2/3 done perhaps. I could easily have been finished by now if I wanted, but I've replayed certain sections.

I only have the Treasue Island DLC. The Air Temple isn't yet available over here.

One thing I am liking is the way maps work… at some points you seem not to have one, so you have to acquire one in-game, really paying attention to your navigation, getting horribly lost (and dealing with the areas, beasts, quests you run into because of this). Then you acquire one and can at least try and navigate from A to B, and once you've been everywhere you get the fast travel options between key points. I think that works very well. I wish there were more and less accurate maps drawn by different people in different styles too…

If you explore a certain amount of an island, the map will automatically appear in your inventory at some point. At least it's happened to me several times. I think it might actually be a bug.