Risen - Steam Runs Out of Keys After Sale

[DArtagnan]

I like PB a lot more than I despise Steam, so:

Good news.

 

[KayAU]

dude, seriously…
are you gonna give out years of your work and life vision so that anyone can use it without any effort to avoid paying you?

That's not what I said at all. I would be a strong proponent of DRM...if it had actually worked. Unfortunately, I think the situation today is that anyone can use your software without any significant effort to avoid paying you. It's not good, but that's how it is. Therefore, I think the publishers' priority should be to ensure that paying customers can use the software with at least the same ease and convenience as the pirates.


@Dwagginz

Certainly not nearly on the same level, I agree. Normally, activation keys provide minimal inconvenience. As we see here, they can create some problems, but it doesn't happen frequently.

Kay

 

[Dwagginz]

@Dwagginz
Certainly not nearly on the same level, I agree. Normally, activation keys provide minimal inconvenience. As we see here, they can create some problems, but it doesn't happen frequently.

Indeed. I don't think Steam are to blame as such, but I don't think their lack of notification really does them any favours.

It happens a few times during the Steam sales, so it's hardly anything new for Steam, but I also think that publishers should send a large bundle of codes over before a sale happens (If they don't already) to alleviate this problem or to reduce it happening completely.

 

[toltec7]

That's not what I said at all. I would be a strong proponent of DRM…if it had actually worked. Unfortunately, I think the situation today is that anyone can use your software without any significant effort to avoid paying you. It's not good, but that's how it is. Therefore, I think the publishers' priority should be to ensure that paying customers can use the software with at least the same ease and convenience as the pirates.

Kay

maybe it doesn't work as it should but the downfalls of using pirated software (complications with updating, trojans and lack of multiplayer segment) is turning people into eventually buying the original once they have the means to do so.
giving everything without any protection at all would destroy the gaming industry.

 

[booboo]

maybe it doesn't work as it should but the downfalls of using pirated software (complications with updating, trojans and lack of multiplayer segment) is turning people into eventually buying the original once they have the means to do so.
giving everything without any protection at all would destroy the gaming industry.

…and yet if you listen to the industry, they are hemoraging money to pirates, so clearly *lot* of people can and so still do pirate games (and are able to deal with these issues). I have issues with buying a game and not being able to play it because some remotely controlled aspect - over which I have no control, even though I paid for a fully functioning piece of sofware - is not functioning correctly. This is even less defensible when you buy a DVD in a store and you can't play it until its phoned home or it requires (god forbid) a *alwaways on* connection. or that you must install a 3rd party client (Read: steam) to play it.

 

[toltec7]

…and yet if you listen to the industry, they are hemoraging money to pirates, so clearly *lot* of people can and so still do pirate games (and are able to deal with these issues). I have issues with buying a game and not being able to play it because some remotely controlled aspect - over which I have no control, even though I paid for a fully functioning piece of sofware - is not functioning correctly. This is even less defensible when you buy a DVD in a store and you can't play it until its phoned home or it requires (god forbid) a *alwaways on* connection. or that you must install a 3rd party client (Read: steam) to play it.

yes, they are dealing with the issues cause they don't wanna pay. they're thieves and they wouldn't pay regardless of anything. and there would be even more of those if was made even easier for them.
that's how the society works. honest citizen has to have inconveniences in his life cause of crooks.
when i go to the bank i get stuck in between the protection doors for 10 secs. It sucks but it's there for a reason and the people who put it there concluded it's worth their while and their investment.

do I like DRM? no.
If I ever produce a game though, I'll put the toughest motherfucker out there. You'll still play it, but you'll have to make an effort and finally you'll be bored one day if you're normal. If not, well....

 

[Maylander]

Actually, pirated versions are often easier to deal with than the retail copy. At that point, DRM has failed completely in my opinion.

Example: If you play the pirated version of Dragon Age, all DLCs will be installed and registered locally, so there's no need to hassle with an account, nor will your DLC items suddenly be unavailable if your internet connection is down.

 

[KayAU]

If I ever produce a game though, I'll put the toughest motherfucker out there. You'll still play it, but you'll have to make an effort and finally you'll be bored one day if you're normal. If not, well….

I don't think that will accomplish much besides making the legally purchased copy greatly inferior to the cracked one, and making your company look like as much of a villain as the people cracking games (ref. Ubisoft). The thing is, making the DRM tougher might make the crackers' job more difficult, but they always seem to get past the protection soon enough anyway. For the average pirate, however, the added protection probably won't make a difference in most cases. I'm guessing downloading a game which was difficult to crack takes about the same time and effort as downloading one which was easy to crack.

One really silly side-effect of draconian DRM, is that it to some extent makes cracking games useful, as paying customers may download cracked versions or DRM stripping patches to improve the game experience. A good example of this is NODVD patches. I myself downloaded a NODVD patch for my legally purchased copy of Gothic 3 to avoid the awful DVD-check (this is legal in Norway, BTW). With Tages disabled, the time needed to load saved games was almost cut in half, and I no longer had to listen to my DVD drive spin up and down all the time. I am no software pirate, but thanks to the "super strong" DRM, the DRM stripping patch was useful to me.

Kay

 

[Thrasher]

I hear you. Once I install a game, I look for a NOCD crack. I hate slow startups and having to mess with CD/DVDs.

I have to give kudos to Obsidian for removing the DVD check on the last patch for NWN 2.

 

[Dhruin]

One really silly side-effect of draconic DRM, is that it to some extent makes cracking games useful, as paying customers may download cracked versions or DRM stripping patches to improve the game experience. A good example of this is NODVD patches. I myself downloaded a NODVD patch for my legally purchased copy of Gothic 3 to avoid the awful DVD-check (this is legal in Norway, BTW). With Tages disabled, the time needed to load saved games was almost cut in half, and I no longer had to listen to my DVD drive spin up and down all the time. I am no software pirate, but thanks to the "super strong" DRM, the DRM stripping patch was useful to me.

Kay

A disc-check is draconian?

Personally, I love Steam and online activations -- no disc-check, no bothering with cracks.

 

[Roland]

Got my key and ran the game last night...everything worked great!

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

I assume that Valve (with Steam) doesn't even realize that a part of their customers might be those who don't like disc-based copy protections.

 

[KayAU]

A disc-check is draconian?

Personally, I love Steam and online activations — no disc-check, no bothering with cracks.

Well, in the particular case of Gothic 3, the disc check was quite bad. It wasn't just run once when the game started up, but also one or two times (can't remember) every time you loaded a saved game. This included quick-loads. This had two main effects:
1. It almost doubled the already very long load times.
2. It created a lot of noise as the DVD would keep spinning up to full speed and down to a standstill over and over while playing the game.

As for Steam, I have recently been forced to get it to play Civ 5. I don't hate it, but I don't particularly like it either. I dislike:
1. Needing to run a third party client to play my games.
2. Being at the mercy of Valve.
The one thing I like is the automatic patching. I also like the absence of disc-checks, but you could have this without Steam.

My favorite distribution platform is GOG.com.

Kay

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

I only had problems with drm twice. Once (with the witcher I think) with a poorly printed CD key (where an O could not be distinguished from a 0) and once (I believe with Gothic 2) where it occasionally wouldn't recognize the DVD although it was in the drive. The first problem was easily solved by a look into the forums, the second occurred only intermittently, but I admit I nevertheless "fixed" it by downloading a noCD crack. Never had a problem with steam. I think the whole "inconveniences the honest customer" argument is way overstated. DRM may not be very successful at protecting software from pirates but neither is it a big inconvenience these days. Now in the old days when you had to find word number 20 in paragraph number 2 on page 15 in the manual… THAT was inconvenient. For as long as it will make a difference to the all important initial sales wether a crack comes out on the same day or before release or 2 weeks later, drm is here to stay, and rightly so.

 

[toltec7]

I don't think that will accomplish much besides making the legally purchased copy greatly inferior to the cracked one, and making your company look like as much of a villain as the people cracking games (ref. Ubisoft). The thing is, making the DRM tougher might make the crackers' job more difficult, but they always seem to get past the protection soon enough anyway. For the average pirate, however, the added protection probably won't make a difference in most cases. I'm guessing downloading a game which was difficult to crack takes about the same time and effort as downloading one which was easy to crack.

One really silly side-effect of draconian DRM, is that it to some extent makes cracking games useful, as paying customers may download cracked versions or DRM stripping patches to improve the game experience. A good example of this is NODVD patches. I myself downloaded a NODVD patch for my legally purchased copy of Gothic 3 to avoid the awful DVD-check (this is legal in Norway, BTW). With Tages disabled, the time needed to load saved games was almost cut in half, and I no longer had to listen to my DVD drive spin up and down all the time. I am no software pirate, but thanks to the "super strong" DRM, the DRM stripping patch was useful to me.

Kay

I couldn't play Witcher before I cracked it. lol
Which is interesting considering how CDProjekt-GOG is all about no DRM.
I wonder if Witcher 2 will have it? You bet your ass it will (though they say it won't be anything special.)

No matter how you spin it, putting no protection at all on a new product is silly and even the biggest proponents of it seem to realize that.

DRM will not turn people away from purchasing.
How many people that buy games know what DRM is? I don't care about paying customer downloading a nodvd crack.
The point is you have to make it harder for someone out there or you'll just be serving it on plate for them and going bankrupt.

 

[Dwagginz]

I couldn't play Witcher before I cracked it. lol
Which is interesting considering how CDProjekt-GOG is all about no DRM.
I wonder if Witcher 2 will have it? You bet your ass it will (though they say it won't be anything special.)

CDProjekt are anti-DRM (Hence GOG), but they only publish within Poland. To get their product out into the wider world, they have to make a compromise as the publishers want to put DRM on the game.

 

[toltec7]

CDProjekt are anti-DRM (Hence GOG), but they only publish within Poland. To get their product out into the wider world, they have to make a compromise as the publishers want to put DRM on the game.

they're sucking up to a targeted demographics of hardcore gamers. it's just marketing. "What can we do to compete with Steam? Let's go with no-DRM"

Fact is that nobody cares about protecting cheap old games that don't sell in retail stores or on majority of online stores and don't bring in any money anymore. So they'll easily hand it over to GOG to maybe make a few bucks.

 

[Dwagginz]

they're sucking up to a targeted demographics of hardcore gamers. it's just marketing. "What can we do to compete with Steam? Let's go with no-DRM"

Fact is that nobody cares about protecting cheap old games that don't sell in retail stores or on majority of online stores and don't bring in any money anymore. So they'll easily hand it over to GOG to maybe make a few bucks.

Gog isn't competing with Steam. Most of Gog's catalogue isn't on Steam, and the stuff that is will rarely be more expensive on Gog (Fallout, The Longest Journey, 1C's games and a few others are on Steam, too, but most isn't).

 

[skavenhorde]

they're sucking up to a targeted demographics of hardcore gamers. it's just marketing. "What can we do to compete with Steam? Let's go with no-DRM"

I could give a rat's ass why they are doing it. I just care that:

1) They let me download the whole game and play it offline whenever I want.
2) They fix it so I can play it on today's computers.
3) They offer it up DRM free.

Steam doesn't do #1 or #3.

#3 isn't really a deal breaker for me. If there was some sort of activation for the first time playing it I wouldn't mind. They've been doing that with indies since Vogel first released Exile. You could play the demo up until a point, but then had to register it to unlock the rest of the game. Seems easy and simple enough for me.

Last time I checked the only real competition with Steam was Impulse, GamersGate and Direct2Drive and they weren't doing as well as Steam. Sorta like small companies taking on the corporate giant. GoG is more like a specialty boutique than a true competitor.

 

[Dwagginz]

Steam doesn't do #1 or #3.

Offline Mode.