Hindukönig;20188 said:
In real Mysticism, Avatars do really exist, although they are extremely rare. This is a point no-one sees, because everyone believes that this cannot happen to be.
RPGs that are/were overestimated
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In real Mysticism, Avatars do really exist, although they are extremely rare. This is a point no-one sees, because everyone believes that this cannot happen to be.
Hi all (long time reader first time posting)!
Morrowind & Oblivion top my list - these aren't BAD games but are hardly the "go anywhere, do anything" games they are often hyped as. And in Oblivion's case, all the acclaim received was undeserved. Aside from the exceptional graphics, the game is far from impressive. Actually what is very impressive is how "noobie" or casual friendly this game is - hardcore RPGers were left out in the cold.
Baldur's Gate - Very good game when released but I'm baffled at fans who choose it over BG2 as one of the greatest RPGs of all time. The sequel was a quantum leap in terms of story, visuals, interface, quests, options.
KOTOR - Being a Star Wars fan, I enjoyed the story and characters. As an RPG fan I was dissappointed. Combat was fun but too easy, the quest was extremely linear (yes, you can visit the "planets" in any order you desired but once there it was all linear), and the game world was underwhelming - these were PLANETS you visited but each adventure took place in very small, confined areas. The sequel brought a few improvements but with it also, more of the same and with less polish.
Gold Box Games - Highly regarded...but mostly a case of viewing the past with nostalgiavision. People complain about Icewind Dale being nothing but a hack & slash fest but that's exactly what the gold box games were - without the pretty graphics, rivetting orchestral score or more hours of gameplay.
FF8 - This was one of the most overrated games of all time. It's dull, tedious, boring and overlong. FF7 had a greater sense of adventure and a better story and FF9 had a better cast, game mechanics and was just a joy to play. I've replayed most RPGs I've enjoyed at least once to "relive the magic" - this is one that I've tried to replay several times to try to "find the magic" and it's just not there.
Morrowind & Oblivion top my list - these aren't BAD games but are hardly the "go anywhere, do anything" games they are often hyped as. And in Oblivion's case, all the acclaim received was undeserved. Aside from the exceptional graphics, the game is far from impressive. Actually what is very impressive is how "noobie" or casual friendly this game is - hardcore RPGers were left out in the cold.
Baldur's Gate - Very good game when released but I'm baffled at fans who choose it over BG2 as one of the greatest RPGs of all time. The sequel was a quantum leap in terms of story, visuals, interface, quests, options.
KOTOR - Being a Star Wars fan, I enjoyed the story and characters. As an RPG fan I was dissappointed. Combat was fun but too easy, the quest was extremely linear (yes, you can visit the "planets" in any order you desired but once there it was all linear), and the game world was underwhelming - these were PLANETS you visited but each adventure took place in very small, confined areas. The sequel brought a few improvements but with it also, more of the same and with less polish.
Gold Box Games - Highly regarded...but mostly a case of viewing the past with nostalgiavision. People complain about Icewind Dale being nothing but a hack & slash fest but that's exactly what the gold box games were - without the pretty graphics, rivetting orchestral score or more hours of gameplay.
FF8 - This was one of the most overrated games of all time. It's dull, tedious, boring and overlong. FF7 had a greater sense of adventure and a better story and FF9 had a better cast, game mechanics and was just a joy to play. I've replayed most RPGs I've enjoyed at least once to "relive the magic" - this is one that I've tried to replay several times to try to "find the magic" and it's just not there.
Dhruin
SasqWatch
Some good comments, Relayer - I agree with most of your points - but let me field the one about Baldur's Gate.
There's every chance I might write in some forum thread that BG was better than BG2. The real truth is that BG2 is indeed a better game on most levels but there are a few key things about BG that I liked and I can tend to get sentimental about.
First, there's the simple fact that BG marked the first major/new D&D title in many years an immediately reminded me of all those late night PnP sessions from my youth (this is a rose-tinted glasses thing - it wasn't that good but at the time, I was hooked).
The story wasn't hugely exciting but the whole motivation for BG2 failed for me...I hated Imoen and was quite happy to have her kidnapped - good riddance. Chasing after her because the story required it was frustrating.
Chapter 2 was simply excellent but I missed the random wilderness areas in BG. Yes, from a pacing point of view it was an improvement, but wandering empty forests felt like I was adventuring whereas as BG2 was so carefully paced and orchestrated it felt less "realistic" and more "gamey".
These are all minor things but all in all, I felt a better connection to BG despite its failings and the improvements in BG2.
Role-Player
Sentinel
Story urgency was severely lacking in Baldur's Gate 2. You only had two possible motivations for following the main story arc, Imoen and Irenicus. Players who never cared about Imoen didn't had any reason to save her - this was especially true of players who did not play the prequel and thus, were never clued in on any particular connection to Imoen or relevance she may have had. Irenicus didn't provide for any good motivation either: there's never any real sense of the torture he may have inflicted to the PC (in fact, considering all other NPCs you meet in his dungeon, the PC is *by far* the less harmed one) and because of this revenge doesn't necessarily factor much into the PC's motivations. The only other motivation to get to Irenicus was to learn more about the power he mentioned, and this would only suit very specific types of alignment.
In Baldur's Gate 1 there was definitely more urgency, and one that impacted gameplay in several ways. For instance, there are two groups of characters that will demand you consult authorities in Nashkel concerning the iron plague, each with their own time limit. There are several enemy characters or parties which will cross paths with you in what was a clear attempt to stop you on your tracks - a far cry from BG2's stance where nothing ever happens in the gameworld that urges you to go after Irenicus. Also, many of the weapons you find throughout the gameworld will eventually break or crumble before you can find the source of the plague, which was also another great tie into the story and motivation to discover more of it.
The Plot of BG 2 worked for me like a charm, because I cared much for the NPCs in Part 1 and to rescue Imoen and avenge Dynaheir and Khalid were great Goals for me. Irenicus was one of the best Villains ever 
But then there was Throne of Bhaal ... the beginning of Biowares slow degeneration.
But then there was Throne of Bhaal ... the beginning of Biowares slow degeneration.
ToddMcF2002
SasqWatch
I loved BG1 until I got to the city proper. Once I got there I was so frustrated with the quest structure I started hating it. Then I got poisoned. Anyone remember that? I slogged through the conclusion and deleted the game FOREVER. That being said I loved the first half of the game and I'll never forget fighting in those colorful woods for the first time.
Zaleukos
Bum
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To me the city in BG1 is a perfect illustration of the crappiness of the isometric perspective. Having doors that cant be seen because they are on the northern side of buildings is more than just borderline retarded.
Btw, I played through BG again a few months ago and finally realized that the back side of the map that came with the game has a map of the city. Boy I felt dumb for having missed that... It surely sped up the city portion of the game.
Btw, I played through BG again a few months ago and finally realized that the back side of the map that came with the game has a map of the city. Boy I felt dumb for having missed that... It surely sped up the city portion of the game.
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magerette
Hedgewitch
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Those are pretty much my only memories of BG1, too--I enjoyed the woods, the random encounters, the character creation, but once I got to the city I got so frustrated with the AI pathfinding and the ungodly load times that I never wanted to finish it. I sometimes wonder if they got the name for the Infinity engine from the infinity of time it took to load a map.
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What's that ? I've never heard that name before ...
Dhruin
SasqWatch
As Corwin alluded, it's worth remembering that BG was originally conceived as a (non-D&D) fantasy RTS called Battleground Infinity...you can see a lot of design decisions flowing from that when you look back.
Yes, I liked the woods more than the city - that's why I said my preference for BG over BG2 is at least somewhat coloured by nostalgia.
Yes, I liked the woods more than the city - that's why I said my preference for BG over BG2 is at least somewhat coloured by nostalgia.
I love the BG series as a whole, playing through the whole thing with a single character is simply amazing: Start out making a character in BG1, go through the whole game + add-on content, then import him to BG2 and go through that + ToB. Many, many hours of solid gaming!
Yes, the ability to import characters is one of my personal favourite features !
I just loved it when I played the Realms of Arcania Trilogy !
I just loved it when I played the Realms of Arcania Trilogy !
aries100
SasqWatch
And the award goes to
--- wait for it ---
(you've guessed it, haven't you)
Oblivion.
Seldom have I seen a game much more hyped than this game. Sadly, all the hype turned out the air, fluff, and more air, and certain not the icing of the cake, it was the cake!
No games deserves a 98% or a 94% --- and no game is actually that good that it
deserves 90+ ratings from all over the (major) gaming sites. Personally, I think Oblivion is good game, but I don't happen to think that its the bestest game evar nor that it is an rpg. [It is more of an action/adventure/exploring game with some rpg elements thrown in, imo...].
ETA:
As for BG1 and BG2, I have to say that I liked BG1 much better than BG2, simply because of the political elements in the story arc (or narrative).
And that during the game's narrative structure you, or rather your character, dioscovers your true heritage. [Which sort of is a loaned, borrowed or stolen thing from the Greek myths like the Myth of Perseus or Heracles or Jason and the Argonauts].
BG2 is a good game, too, but the only motivation you have for going after the main villain is that he somehow has strayed from a certain race's virtues.
There is no, irrc, no real info as to why he has done this: It is, iirc, only presented as if he, and only he, is the Evil one, because his morals are wrong.
I also miss the beautifully outdoor areas in BG1 when playing BG2.
--- wait for it ---
(you've guessed it, haven't you)
Oblivion.
Seldom have I seen a game much more hyped than this game. Sadly, all the hype turned out the air, fluff, and more air, and certain not the icing of the cake, it was the cake!
No games deserves a 98% or a 94% --- and no game is actually that good that it
deserves 90+ ratings from all over the (major) gaming sites. Personally, I think Oblivion is good game, but I don't happen to think that its the bestest game evar nor that it is an rpg. [It is more of an action/adventure/exploring game with some rpg elements thrown in, imo...].
ETA:
As for BG1 and BG2, I have to say that I liked BG1 much better than BG2, simply because of the political elements in the story arc (or narrative).
And that during the game's narrative structure you, or rather your character, dioscovers your true heritage. [Which sort of is a loaned, borrowed or stolen thing from the Greek myths like the Myth of Perseus or Heracles or Jason and the Argonauts].
BG2 is a good game, too, but the only motivation you have for going after the main villain is that he somehow has strayed from a certain race's virtues.
There is no, irrc, no real info as to why he has done this: It is, iirc, only presented as if he, and only he, is the Evil one, because his morals are wrong.
I also miss the beautifully outdoor areas in BG1 when playing BG2.
Last edited:
Lucky Day
Daywatch
The Gothic Series is overrated here but fairly rated every else (I know no one in RL who's heard of the series).
Planescape seemed fun but soon got bogged down. Its really the only one of the Infinity games I couldn't finish.
Fallout I. It was good but too short. Its certainly not the second coming that people make of it.
Wasteland. I hated this game when it came out. It was a bad clone of Ultima 3 and there were many of them at the time. Big deal that it was set in the future. It was clunky.
Gold Box Games. I've made repeated comments at how tedious all SSI games were. If it wasn't for the AD&D name slapped on them I don't think these would have sold very well.
Ultima Underworld and Ultima 7. I'm sorry, but these could not even be played on most systems at the time of their release or even some years after. I recall Ultima 6 even requiring a Hard Drive on some systems at a time when they were almost unheard of in home machines.
Wizardry IV. I really loved this game. But Sirotek shouldn't have enlarged the wire frame to a full screen. Even by 1985 standards the game seemed primitive. Fortunately, it makes up for it in real content.
Wizardry 5 and 6. DW Bradley tore out the heart of what made Wizardry real cool: the spell names!
Diablo.
Myst (Just Kidding). like Diablo this game was hated for its success. In particular, hard core gamers hated how it found mainstream audiences. Its largely forgotten that Myst is the killer app that sold "multimedia" (essentially the cd-rom drive and sound card with speakers)..
Dragon's Lair. How rich did you have to be to waste a $1 a game for what is essentially a guessing game.
Final Fantasy.
Zelda.
..But really, who cares what I think.
Planescape seemed fun but soon got bogged down. Its really the only one of the Infinity games I couldn't finish.
Fallout I. It was good but too short. Its certainly not the second coming that people make of it.
Wasteland. I hated this game when it came out. It was a bad clone of Ultima 3 and there were many of them at the time. Big deal that it was set in the future. It was clunky.
Gold Box Games. I've made repeated comments at how tedious all SSI games were. If it wasn't for the AD&D name slapped on them I don't think these would have sold very well.
Ultima Underworld and Ultima 7. I'm sorry, but these could not even be played on most systems at the time of their release or even some years after. I recall Ultima 6 even requiring a Hard Drive on some systems at a time when they were almost unheard of in home machines.
Wizardry IV. I really loved this game. But Sirotek shouldn't have enlarged the wire frame to a full screen. Even by 1985 standards the game seemed primitive. Fortunately, it makes up for it in real content.
Wizardry 5 and 6. DW Bradley tore out the heart of what made Wizardry real cool: the spell names!
Diablo.
Myst (Just Kidding). like Diablo this game was hated for its success. In particular, hard core gamers hated how it found mainstream audiences. Its largely forgotten that Myst is the killer app that sold "multimedia" (essentially the cd-rom drive and sound card with speakers)..
Dragon's Lair. How rich did you have to be to waste a $1 a game for what is essentially a guessing game.
Final Fantasy.
Zelda.
..But really, who cares what I think.
To be most cynical, maybe it's because it's a German game ? I mean, I once read in an article a quote saying that "no-one expected a (good) game from Germany".
In fact, Germany was hardly ever present internationally, until Gothic and later Far Cry. And Spellforce also.
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