Siege of Dragonspear - Review @ RPS

[JDR13]

Case in point, there were quite a few transgender people who criticized the heavy-handed writing. According to the logic above, those were transgender anti-trans bigots?

Not that I'm doubting you, but I haven't seen or heard anything like that. Can you link to something that backs up that claim?

Edit: In principle, this whole discussion about those two small text snippets is a big smokescreen that diverts from more profound criticisms of the writing.

I wholeheartedly agree that far too much attention is being focused on Misnc and Mizhena, but that's the fault of those who are choosing to blow the situation out of proportion. As far as the writing in general is concerned, I haven't seen anyone outside of the aforementioned group claiming that it's "bad".

 

[Silver]

Feedback from a transgender person
http://steamcommunity.com/app/228280/discussions/0/371918937272938521/

 

[Turjan]

Not that I'm doubting you, but I haven't seen or heard anything like that. Can you link to something that backs up that claim?

Sure. This here explains it best I think (the link by Silver is more about the instrumentalization than the writing):
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/50420/my-thoughts-on-mizhena-as-a-transgender-person-myself

Statements like this one from transgender persons made Beamdog reconsider their portrayal of Mizhena, which means they will rewrite the scene.

I wholeheartedly agree that far too much attention is being focused on Misnc and Mizhena, but that's the fault of those who are choosing to blow the situation out of proportion. As far as the writing in general is concerned, I haven't seen anyone outside of the aforementioned group claiming that it's "bad".

I linked the Gamestar review further up in this thread, which gave the game 58/100 (68/100 if the serious bugs get fixed) mostly because of the bad writing. The score is unrelated to the trans person or the Minsc statement (the author elsewhere dismissed them as unimportant margin notes). His detailed reasoning, although with lots of spoilers, can be found in the forums.

 

[Morrandir]

After browsing the last three pages, I think there is quite a bit of misunderstanding going on. I personally still don't get where all the turmoil is about, but I also have never been able to care that much about any game, even if it is named Baldur's Gate.
Perhaps taking a step back for a day or so, might be good for some, I personally find that things people have written often look different after a day

Yep... this discussion in some places is led with so much passion that you might think that the ones who "loose" have to change their sexuality or gender.

 

[Wenzil]

Yep… this discussion in some places is led with so much passion that you might think that the ones who "loose" have to change their sexuality or gender.

If you find a belt in the street, think before putting it on...

 

[Maylander]

I just completed it, and barely even noticed the whole issue. You really need to explore of dialgoues of Mizhena to get to whole discussion, and that particular character is just a random NPC - hardly someone that gets shoved in the face of the player. It's not even an important character, so the fuss is absurd.

 

[Wenzil]

I just completed it, and barely even noticed the whole issue. You really need to explore of dialgoues of Mizhena to get to whole discussion, and that particular character is just a random NPC - hardly someone that gets shoved in the face of the player. It's not even an important character, so the fuss is absurd.

What are your overall impressions of the game?

 

[HiddenX]

What are your overall impressions of the game?

-> look here

 

[Wenzil]

-> look here

Argh! Spoilers!!

 

[forgottenlor]

I just completed it, and barely even noticed the whole issue. You really need to explore of dialgoues of Mizhena to get to whole discussion, and that particular character is just a random NPC - hardly someone that gets shoved in the face of the player. It's not even an important character, so the fuss is absurd.

I agree with you. If the author hadn't done the interview, people would be focusing on the game for what it is.

 

[JDR13]

Sure. This here explains it best I think (the link by Silver is more about the instrumentalization than the writing):
https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/50420/my-thoughts-on-mizhena-as-a-transgender-person-myself

Statements like this one from transgender persons made Beamdog reconsider their portrayal of Mizhena, which means they will rewrite the scene.

She only seems to be annoyed that they didn't do more with the character (which is understandable). I was expecting more though when you said "quite a few" transgender people.

I linked the Gamestar review further up in this thread, which gave the game 58/100 (68/100 if the serious bugs get fixed) mostly because of the bad writing. The score is unrelated to the trans person or the Minsc statement (the author elsewhere dismissed them as unimportant margin notes). His detailed reasoning, although with lots of spoilers, can be found in the forums.

I can't read most of that article because I'm not fluent in German, but it seems like the majority of reviews are significantly more positive than that one. In fact, that's the lowest critic review I've seen.

 

[Archangel]

Yea that review seems to be written by someone who hates EE anyways.

 

[Turjan]

She only seems to be annoyed that they didn't do more with the character (which is understandable). I was expecting more though when you said "quite a few" transgender people.

She thinks it's unrealistic and forced how it's done, and nobody would ever react that way. Also, first comment is another trans person, who casts the treatment as "being used as a political football." You can just read the thread further, and the OP basically says that Beamdog is promoting transphobia with how they handled this. You can't really get much stronger with your statement.

Anyway, Beamdog found the message clear enough that they decided that they have to do something about this.

 

[Pessimeister]

I just completed it,

Yeah, I'm not going near your thread until I've finished the game thanks.

I'm trying to play my Fallen Archer who has recently completed BG: EE.
So far, my impressions of Siege of Dragonspear are generally mixed.

Pros:

- Familiar setting is reasonably well maintained, some interestingly imagined locations in Baldur's Gate after the death of Sarevok, even if you're very limited in what you can visit.
- Some nice short dungeon crawls with more of an Icewind Dale feel; particularly when it comes to the size of mobs and some of the creatures used. Compelling atmosphere at times, especially in the Dwarven mine/Undead Repository.
- David Warner's charismatic inflections! (Easily the best voice work here for me so far)
- Solid encounter design (for where I'm up to…I won't spoil any creatures.)
- To be honest I like the sedate pacing; seems to take me awhile to level and feels reminiscent of mid level AD&D.

Cons:

- Very short on variety of characters for party configurations; this is especially telling and annoying if you're trying to play an evil character as I am. If you've transferred over straight from BG:EE, you'll get to use your party for a short period in the "starter dungeon" only for most of them to wander off in different directions. I had to play the first section with only 4 characters after Minsc/Dynaheir cracked it when I appointed Viconia (who is more like her BG2 self than the BG1 incarnation.)
- Tacky treatment and "upgrade" of Safana and Skie, who is more like Alora and her combined. (I'll go into more detail later…)
- Writing sometimes doesn't quite feel like "Forgotten Realms" and contains many modern hip-speak moments in its misguided attempts to be funny. (This ideally should be more natural) Apart from Dorn, I'm not a big fan of the EE npcs.
- Too many cut scenes and overuse of dream images for story-telling similar to BG2.

That'll do for now. I might add some more to Maylander's thread when I'm finished.

Edit:
My current party for those curious:
Voghiln (In tank role! A somewhat paradoxically ill-fitting Skald)
Viconia (Cleric)
Corwin (Archer)
PC Cassandra (Fallen Archer)
Safana (Rogue)
Edwin (Wizard)

 

[JDR13]

Fallen Archer

Was that class available in character creation or did you have to start as an Archer and do something to change your alignment?

Anyway, Beamdog found the message clear enough that they decided that they have to do something about this.

Where have you seen that? Afaik, Beamdog isn't planning any changes in regard to that character. In the statement they issued, Trent Oster said they're going to remove Minsc's reference to the GamerGate debacle. He didn't say anything about Mizhena.

 

[greywolf00]

This thing is seriously overblown. That one conversation with Mizhena everyone points to happens near the start of the game. I haven't seen anything else like it in the 7 hours since. If you're avoiding the game solely for that, you're really missing out.

New enemies, harder combat, some good banter, story is thus far interesting.

My only gripes to this point are bugs related to looting and reputation forcing people to leave the party annoyingly often.

 

[Pessimeister]

Was that class available in character creation or did you have to start as an Archer and do something to change your alignment?

Yep, I started as a Ranger (archer specialist) then as the Enhanced Edition progressed, found Cass enjoying the company of the more evil characters. By the end of the game, I'd hit the despised reputation and so became fallen.

To be honest, there probably aren't any benefits to this from a role-playing or power-gaming perspective, but I quite like the concept - perhaps there's a redemption quest of sorts in BG2? I haven't looked that far ahead yet.

 

[Drithius]

What exactly determines your reputation? Is it as trivial as stealing stuff from cupboards or is there more to it than that?

 

[JDR13]

My only gripes to this point are bugs related to looting and reputation forcing people to leave the party annoyingly often.

Party members leaving because of reputation has always been one of my few complaints about the series. I hated having to perform some evil acts just to knock my rep down a few points so I could keep Viconia in BG1. I wish they would have implemented another way to keep characters that don't match your general alignment.

To be honest, there probably aren't any benefits to this from a role-playing or power-gaming perspective, but I quite like the concept - perhaps there's a redemption quest of sorts in BG2? I haven't looked that far ahead yet.

If there's a way to redeem your character, I'm guessing it's tied to the Ranger stronghold quest.

 

[JDR13]

What exactly determines your reputation? Is it as trivial as stealing stuff from cupboards or is there more to it than that?

Iirc, stealing something doesn't affect your reputation unless you choose to fight the guards when you get caught. (I might be wrong about that.) Your rep will also drop by a lesser degree if you attempt to bribe them.

Killing non-hostile npcs in view of others will drop your rep considerably. I seem to remember that getting caught pickpocketing will also drop your rep.