Mobs in UK

[JDR13]

People are shot around the world by police without riots ensuring every time. Indeed, there has been the (rare) few cases of police shootings in the UK over the last few years, however the vast majority of them haven't caused riots. Likewise, we've had several riots in the world and the UK that didn't have any temporal connection to a police shooting, so no, I'd say the root cause wasn't a guy getting shot by police.

Did you actually think I was implying that there's a riot every time someone gets shot by a cop?

 

[GothicGothicness]

I read an article recently where they interviewed young people in different countries in Europe. I have to say I was surprised, even a lot of youths with education didn't have that much hope about their future. A lot of them had double jobs and could hardly get enough to pay the rent.

Germany and Netherlands appeared better off. Anyway with this little hope about the future there is no wounder there is so much frustration going on. Especially in a society where the image was created that money equals success and happiness, some of the youths actually said they were extremely unhappy because they couldn't afford the latest top brand jogging shoes and that was a good reason for plundering the store and breaking stuff. I mean come on give them a month on the horn of Africa, and they'll be so so so happy they can have bread for breakfast.

 

[kalniel]

Did you actually think I was implying that there's a riot every time someone gets shot by a cop?

You seemed to be implying a causal relationship.

 

[blatantninja]

I read an article recently where they interviewed young people in different countries in Europe. I have to say I was surprised, even a lot of youths with education didn't have that much hope about their future. A lot of them had double jobs and could hardly get enough to pay the rent.

Germany and Netherlands appeared better off. Anyway with this little hope about the future there is no wounder there is so much frustration going on. Especially in a society where the image was created that money equals success and happiness, some of the youths actually said they were extremely unhappy because they couldn't afford the latest top brand jogging shoes and that was a good reason for plundering the store and breaking stuff. I mean come on give them a month on the horn of Africa, and they'll be so so so happy they can have bread for breakfast.

This is a real problem in the developed world as a whole. It comes from both society and government IMO. The more that we feel we have a right to (whether that be from a government handout or societal perception) the more difficult it is to keep people's expectations in check.

I have to like this official's attitude though:

Prime Minister David Cameron put forward on Friday a new way of punishing the looters and vandals who rampaged through many of the country’s cities and towns: kick them and their families out of their government-subsidized homes.

***

Asked whether that would render them homeless, he replied, “They should have thought of that before they started burgling.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/13/world/europe/13britain.html?_r=1&ref=world

 

[GothicGothicness]

and the follow up questions. "What will they do after you kick them out of their homes?"

On the other hand in contrary to popular beliefs, there are quite a lot of people with jobs even web designers day care workers and such a people who participated not all of them with a low salary either… well of course it is relatively low but…. not the only the kind of people to have government subsidized homes.

 

[Ubereil]

I have to like this official's attitude though:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/13/world/europe/13britain.html?_r=1&ref=world

Yeah, making pepole even more desperate is the way to deal with social unrest!

Übereil

 

[dteowner]

End up in prison, effectively having no impact on their drain to society--from one government dole to another.

 

[zakhal]

Some stats:

The numbers, in this respect, are telling. In 2003 and 2004, a whopping 21 percent of children in the UK grew up in households below the poverty line (after housing costs are taken into account, this rises to an incredible 28 percent). One EU study this year found that 17 percent of UK youths qualify as “NEETs” — Not in Employment, Education or Training, “in other words high-school dropouts with no prospects of employment.” The same study found that over 600,000 people under the age of 25 have never had a day of work.

While it would be ridiculous to use such statistics as a justification for the dangerous, irresponsible and anti-social behavior of the rioters, it would be just as foolish to simply ignore this crucial social context and only focus on the “aberrant behavior” of “deviant individuals.” The violence and thievery may be entirely indiscriminate and a-political, but the root causes of it are profoundly political and carry a very clear discriminatory component.

A society where an hour’s bus ride from Kensington to Newham takes you across a six year reduction in male life expectancy – from 78.5 years to 72.4 – is a profoundly sick society. The gap is actually bigger than the one between the US and Nicaragua, with the latter being the second poorest country in Latin America. London, in other words, may be the most expensive city in the world, but it literally contains a developing country within its city boundaries.

http://wlcentral.org/node/2127

 

[DArtagnan]

Oh, the wonders of the class-based mentality.

How many times must these things happen, before we start dividing resources equally?

 

[hishadow]

I have to like this official's attitude though

It's funny you should mention David Cameron. When he was confronted with the charges brought against the News of the World friend he had employed in goverment, he said he believed in giving people a second chance.

 

[JemyM]

A comment I wrote on youtube to someone who claimed that there is no excuse to behave the way the rioters have behaved;

A riot is not caused by a single individual and cannot be explained by individual err (then it would happen everywhere all the time). If you wish to address a riot you need to understand that there is an excuse viable to each rioter, which requires you to understand their perspective. Punishing them keeps up the law as a social restraint, but the law didn't stop this riot, nor does it stop future riots. Only way to do so is to understand their excuse and why it's viable to them.

Faced with problems like this, "there is no excuse" may actually be a thought-terminating cliché that blocks empirical and enlightened insight. Cursing "wrong deeds" may even make it more thought-terminating. It's like a catastrophe, keeping your heads cool and focusing on understanding the nature of the issue is the way to keep alive and to deal with the problem, where as getting ones emotions boiled up and blame people is almost suicidal.

 

[blatantninja]

Oh, the wonders of the class-based mentality.

How many times must these things happen, before we start dividing resources equally?

Hopefully that will never happen. Equal division of resources would be a disaster given that most people are complete idiots.

 

[blatantninja]

It's funny you should mention David Cameron. When he was confronted with the charges brought against the News of the World friend he had employed in goverment, he said he believed in giving people a second chance.

Didn't know that, but that's funny. Gotta love politicians.

 

[dteowner]

So then, you want to impose rtional thought and order on a situation which is, by definition, chaotic and irrational. Doesn't really sound productive, does it? Do you actually think that each rioter sat there and thought to themselves, "All things considered, I'd rather have tea with the Queen, but for *this* particular issue, I shall burn it all to the ground, steal whatever catches my fancy, and maybe kill a person or two."

They call it mob mentality for a reason. You get a small group of people with a gripe (it was reported over here that the very first spasm was over the police killing some young gangbanger, like JDR mentioned earlier, and everything went to shit from there) and the herd starts to gather and follow. The herd doesn't know what caused the movement, and very likely doesn't care. If you interviewed all the rioters, I doubt you'd get more than 1 in 10 that would attempt to justify their actions.

 

[JemyM]

So then, you

Were you commenting me?

 

[dteowner]

Were you commenting me?

Yep. bn wiggled into the middle when I wasn't looking.

 

[JemyM]

Yep. bn wiggled into the middle when I wasn't looking.

Ok, it's like 10pm and I am a tired trainwreck, but Id like to point out that when I speak about studying irrational people I mean study behavior and roots of behavior. I do not assume they are rational. Also, irrational behavior isn't neccessary chaotic, people can be quite predictable in behaviors they aren't even aware of.

 

[DArtagnan]

Hopefully that will never happen. Equal division of resources would be a disaster given that most people are complete idiots.

Why do you think most people are idiots in the first place?

 

[JDR13]

You seemed to be implying a causal relationship.

Really? How so?

There was obviously a connection between that particular shooting and the start of those particular riots. Since I didn't mention any other incidents, I don't see how my statement could be interpreted as "there's a riot every time a cop shoots someone". Nevermind that such an implication would be ridiculous to begin with.

 

[Thrasher]

A causal relationship is probably right. But I doubt the shooting is not the whole cause. It was probably just a trigger for pre-existing underying unrest, worry, lack of hope, anger, etc… The bucket was full and about ready to spill over a moment's notice.

The same thing is VERY likely to happen in the US and elsewhere as people become more desperate. So glad the wack jobs in the House are living up to their campaign promises to create jobs.

It could find a revolution on its hands if it doesn't act.