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I'm sure a gamepad works fine, but have you tried playing it with keyboard only controls (no mouse) ? It works great. I have the direction keys mapped to W A S D, and Spacebar as my confirm button. Tab is exit, 1 and 2 are left and right, C is camp, R is map and F is info. It works really well.
However, if you'd like to donate a gamepad to me to try it with one, I would be more than happy to accept.
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Check out the latest episode. It was a live stream that I did today. Tune in to my channel for more live streams!!!
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elminage gothic is amazing!!
THANK YOU.
seriously.
THANKS A MILLION for espousing the virtues of elminage gothic! i read the review while browsing the site as usual, and by pure happenstance the game was like 99% discounted online so i… i just got it. the only other wizardry i've played iw Wiz 8, and it's probably my all-time favorite RPG; but i'm not actually a dungeon-crawl player at all. i used to think "blobbers" were like wizardry 8 LOL and every time i found one it would be stupid and bad, like legend of grimrock, with its horribly atrocious tango-of-death real-time combat or something like Paper Sorcerer which is a Wiz4-clone.
at the time i just wasn't ready to process games like these; the mazes, the difficulty, the everything etc etc. when i fired up paper sorcerer i gave it up after 1 hour because it was nothing like Wiz 8.
thanks to the elminage gothic review here (the fucking codex hasn't reviewed it GRR; yes, i'm a long-time codexer) and your let's plays on Youtube and your general appreciation of the game/genre and ability to communicate the type of game that it is i now can honestly say i am officially a wiz-clone type of blobber FANATIC. i'm absolutely obsessed with elminage at the moment (currently slogging my way through the Uzik Hall mansion dungeon), and i decided to give Paper Sorcerer a second try and am LOVING it. i used to think "these type of games" would be soooooo much better if they just did things like Wiz 8, which doesn't feature old-school mazes/dungeons/tile-based exploration. i did not realize that Wiz 8 is something unique, special, and absolutely nothing like the vast majority of dungeon-crawlers out there.
thanks to elminage i finally understand WHY these games are FUN; i have realized that it is actually the MAZES THEMSELVES that are the game, and nothing else. the game is only as good as the tools it gives you to breath through the crevices of the dungeons!
igdra church was my first ever experience with such things as spinners, teleporters, and darkened areas (it was great!), and it was that dungeon that made me fully appreciate this type of genre, and how important the design has to be. so far elminage hasn't disappointed me. in fact, it's actually Paper Sorcerer, which i thought would be more old-school that i'm finding rather easy to get through.
my latest findings are about the mark of ruin ex-skill, check this out:
"
- mark of ruin appears to increase your attack power PROPORTIONALLY to your level and your attributes. i leveled up the 'Newt fighter up to lv. 12 and he keeps hitting harder and harder with every level. he was dealing approx. 40-60 dmg with each of his two weapons; i have him dual-wielding a longsword and a short-sword. i can only imagine how crazy the damage can get with good gear and good enchantments. shit is craaaazy good.
- it also affects his Breath attack (shit was doing ridiculous damage!) therefore i assume it must also affect other direct-damage spells/abilities as well.
- the amount of HP lost at the end of every turn seems to be static; it's always 8-21 or so hit-points lost, and the amount hasn't changed since lv. 1 up to lv. 12. I outfitted him with as much AC (defense) as possible to see if that affected the amount of HP lost but it does not. the amount lost is the same regardless of how much AC the character has.
- healing works perfectly. i healed him with spells, and i enchanted his armor with +8 hp regen, and absolutely everything worked fine. description is wrong (wee!).
i think this is probably the best skill in the game now, in terms of choosing a skill to boost attack power. it's like magic essence but it covers melee attacks and abilities (and i assume spells, must try) and the increased damage is SUBSTANTIAL. this shit ain't no joke. i haven't even tested his DPS with a two-handed weapon, as i've only had him swinging those crappy swords; and he was doing 40-60 dmg per each sword swing at lv. 12…
yeah the HP loss is a pain but if you put mark of ruin on a high HP class like the fighter, with a high VIT race… like the 'Newt, or a dwarf, and craft HP regen on his gear you basically eliminate the downside of the EX-skill while benefitting from what i estimate to be a 40%-50% increase in melee damage output, and a VERY noticeable increase in his Breath damage. and yes, i know the breath is related to the amount of HP the 'Newt has, i took that into account. the increase in the breath damage is even bigger than in the melee attacks.
so yeah, mark of ruin people… it's stupid OP. ""
THANK YOU.
seriously.
THANKS A MILLION for espousing the virtues of elminage gothic! i read the review while browsing the site as usual, and by pure happenstance the game was like 99% discounted online so i… i just got it. the only other wizardry i've played iw Wiz 8, and it's probably my all-time favorite RPG; but i'm not actually a dungeon-crawl player at all. i used to think "blobbers" were like wizardry 8 LOL and every time i found one it would be stupid and bad, like legend of grimrock, with its horribly atrocious tango-of-death real-time combat or something like Paper Sorcerer which is a Wiz4-clone.
at the time i just wasn't ready to process games like these; the mazes, the difficulty, the everything etc etc. when i fired up paper sorcerer i gave it up after 1 hour because it was nothing like Wiz 8.
thanks to the elminage gothic review here (the fucking codex hasn't reviewed it GRR; yes, i'm a long-time codexer) and your let's plays on Youtube and your general appreciation of the game/genre and ability to communicate the type of game that it is i now can honestly say i am officially a wiz-clone type of blobber FANATIC. i'm absolutely obsessed with elminage at the moment (currently slogging my way through the Uzik Hall mansion dungeon), and i decided to give Paper Sorcerer a second try and am LOVING it. i used to think "these type of games" would be soooooo much better if they just did things like Wiz 8, which doesn't feature old-school mazes/dungeons/tile-based exploration. i did not realize that Wiz 8 is something unique, special, and absolutely nothing like the vast majority of dungeon-crawlers out there.
thanks to elminage i finally understand WHY these games are FUN; i have realized that it is actually the MAZES THEMSELVES that are the game, and nothing else. the game is only as good as the tools it gives you to breath through the crevices of the dungeons!
igdra church was my first ever experience with such things as spinners, teleporters, and darkened areas (it was great!), and it was that dungeon that made me fully appreciate this type of genre, and how important the design has to be. so far elminage hasn't disappointed me. in fact, it's actually Paper Sorcerer, which i thought would be more old-school that i'm finding rather easy to get through.
my latest findings are about the mark of ruin ex-skill, check this out:
"
- mark of ruin appears to increase your attack power PROPORTIONALLY to your level and your attributes. i leveled up the 'Newt fighter up to lv. 12 and he keeps hitting harder and harder with every level. he was dealing approx. 40-60 dmg with each of his two weapons; i have him dual-wielding a longsword and a short-sword. i can only imagine how crazy the damage can get with good gear and good enchantments. shit is craaaazy good.
- it also affects his Breath attack (shit was doing ridiculous damage!) therefore i assume it must also affect other direct-damage spells/abilities as well.
- the amount of HP lost at the end of every turn seems to be static; it's always 8-21 or so hit-points lost, and the amount hasn't changed since lv. 1 up to lv. 12. I outfitted him with as much AC (defense) as possible to see if that affected the amount of HP lost but it does not. the amount lost is the same regardless of how much AC the character has.
- healing works perfectly. i healed him with spells, and i enchanted his armor with +8 hp regen, and absolutely everything worked fine. description is wrong (wee!).
i think this is probably the best skill in the game now, in terms of choosing a skill to boost attack power. it's like magic essence but it covers melee attacks and abilities (and i assume spells, must try) and the increased damage is SUBSTANTIAL. this shit ain't no joke. i haven't even tested his DPS with a two-handed weapon, as i've only had him swinging those crappy swords; and he was doing 40-60 dmg per each sword swing at lv. 12…
yeah the HP loss is a pain but if you put mark of ruin on a high HP class like the fighter, with a high VIT race… like the 'Newt, or a dwarf, and craft HP regen on his gear you basically eliminate the downside of the EX-skill while benefitting from what i estimate to be a 40%-50% increase in melee damage output, and a VERY noticeable increase in his Breath damage. and yes, i know the breath is related to the amount of HP the 'Newt has, i took that into account. the increase in the breath damage is even bigger than in the melee attacks.
so yeah, mark of ruin people… it's stupid OP.
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Hey, aweigh. No problem! I'm glad you are an Elminage convert and that my article/Let's Play helped make that happen, heh.
There's something really special about the game. It could be the fact that, mechanics-wise, it seems like something that could have come out a long time ago (after all, many would say that it is a Wizardry 1-3 clone), yet with gorgeous HD artwork that marks it as a modern game.
I love how the game does not hold your hand one bit. I love the atmosphere and wicked monsters you encounter. I love the survival aspects of going both deeper into a dungeon and also finding your way out. And, like any good RPG, it gives you the freedom to be unique and craft your perfect party of characters, grow with them, see them get stronger and ultimately really gel as a specialized squad. There is plenty of opportunity to use your creativity and you can develop your own strategies. Just a great, great game.
And yes, the mazes absolutely are a huge part of this game. I love them. Some of the maps in the game are so devious, diabolical and genuinely challenging to figure out, that it's almost like a puzzle game aspect to the gameplay. Not to mention how the game hides certain switches from you, hidden doors, etc., it really gets crazy.
Some of the best gameplay I've had was being on the fourth or fifth level of some challenging dungeon, being low on supplies, most of my magic being used up and having to get *really* clever on how to win the next encounter, let alone get out of the dungeon alive, heh. Awesome stuff.
Nice info on the Mark of Ruin as well. There is a TON of info about this game and it's very complex, which is also another reason I love it. Gotta love those combat dice rolls and the stats as well.
Glad you enjoy! Welcome to RPGWatch and I hope you enjoy your stay!
There's something really special about the game. It could be the fact that, mechanics-wise, it seems like something that could have come out a long time ago (after all, many would say that it is a Wizardry 1-3 clone), yet with gorgeous HD artwork that marks it as a modern game.
I love how the game does not hold your hand one bit. I love the atmosphere and wicked monsters you encounter. I love the survival aspects of going both deeper into a dungeon and also finding your way out. And, like any good RPG, it gives you the freedom to be unique and craft your perfect party of characters, grow with them, see them get stronger and ultimately really gel as a specialized squad. There is plenty of opportunity to use your creativity and you can develop your own strategies. Just a great, great game.
And yes, the mazes absolutely are a huge part of this game. I love them. Some of the maps in the game are so devious, diabolical and genuinely challenging to figure out, that it's almost like a puzzle game aspect to the gameplay. Not to mention how the game hides certain switches from you, hidden doors, etc., it really gets crazy.
Some of the best gameplay I've had was being on the fourth or fifth level of some challenging dungeon, being low on supplies, most of my magic being used up and having to get *really* clever on how to win the next encounter, let alone get out of the dungeon alive, heh. Awesome stuff.
Nice info on the Mark of Ruin as well. There is a TON of info about this game and it's very complex, which is also another reason I love it. Gotta love those combat dice rolls and the stats as well.
Glad you enjoy! Welcome to RPGWatch and I hope you enjoy your stay!
i like the game so much i'm gonna start contributing to the wiki; it's so sadly missing a LOT of info. i've never done anything on a wiki before so it's gonna be a first for me, but i've found out a lot of stuff about how the mechanics work in part by reading this form, the rpgcodex thread about the game and the steam discussion forum. even with all that prep though there is a TON of stuff that is still being revealed to me while i play. it's actually a very rewarding experience.
simple stuff like:
- finding out that when you sell off your enchanted gear and buy it back it comes back without the enchantment. it took me a minute but i quickly realized this meant i could sell off a piece of gear i enchanted with a weak ore, buy it back, and re-enchant it again with a better ore i found. i haven't found that piece of information ANYWHERE. it was a happy discovery.
- when i started class-changing a lot i started becoming annoyed at how much the characters were missing their melee attacks, and i didn't understand how the game determined what hits and what misses; why a melee attack will sometimes say that it hits 1 time, 2 times, or even 10 times, even if it's just the same single melee "swing"; i was also confused about which weapons were more accurate and what the hell attacks per turn REALLY meant…
- i also found out while playing with "builds" that your AC not only determines your chance to evade enemy attack but that it also LOWERS DAMAGE received. i'm 100% certain and it is verifiable; however i don't know yet if AC also decreases damage from spells or if that is mostly determined by your resistances/elemental defenses. would love to find out. (the devil dice is no help concerning any of this stuff, btw. i find the devil dice to be mostly a novelty and very limited in the info it presents).
anyway, tl;dr the game is great. would play again. i've received a bunch of recommendations about other japanese dungeon-crawlers similar to elminage, such as generation xth, labyrinth of touhou and a few others. they have to be patched into english tho, as none of those have PC releases in english officially. you also have to do stuff to make them run and i'm too lazy… have you played any other blobbers you'd recommend? newish ones i mean, heh, you don't have to go and list wiz1-7 for example.
oh, another annoying thing that i learned the hard way was that resistances/elemental defenses/affliction defenses/affliction disables/spell-school immunities DON'T FREAKING STACK. that's NOT in the manual, btw, i checked!
i also noticed that a lot of ex-skills affect abilities/spells that don't seem like an obvious connection; there are some good synergies under the hood in Elminage. one example is hand of kindness affecting the amount of healing done by potions AND i also verified that it boosts chance of success of the cleric spells that cause instant-death for demon-types. i'm going to have to look at the game files in order to truly verify but i'm pretty sure this is because those spells are coded as reverse-healing abilities. just another little example of something sorely needed for the wikia. in fact, i'm gonna go edit that thing right now.
EDIT: another discovery: the Spirit Pact ex-skill which boosts damage done by the Elemental spells from the Mage spell school also boost the damage/percentage-of-DPS added to melee weapons which have an elemental attack attribute. i'd have to check the game files to truly verify this but i'm like 95% sure of this; did a lot of testing and the differences in damage output were noticeable and repeatable.
i think this makes Spirit Pact much better than Magic Essence (nullifies resistances) for a Samurai-type (the spell-sword archetype). a bishop/hybrid-caster most definitely benefits more from Magic Essence, as that is essential for landing status afflictions on enemies (they have high resistances, duh); but for straight up nuking spirit pact does more "DPS" than the same elemental spell cast through a resistance-nullification. the samurai example is the prime choice for this because then you can also enchant their melee weaponry with elemental attack attributes and have them benefit there as well.
simple stuff like:
- finding out that when you sell off your enchanted gear and buy it back it comes back without the enchantment. it took me a minute but i quickly realized this meant i could sell off a piece of gear i enchanted with a weak ore, buy it back, and re-enchant it again with a better ore i found. i haven't found that piece of information ANYWHERE. it was a happy discovery.
- when i started class-changing a lot i started becoming annoyed at how much the characters were missing their melee attacks, and i didn't understand how the game determined what hits and what misses; why a melee attack will sometimes say that it hits 1 time, 2 times, or even 10 times, even if it's just the same single melee "swing"; i was also confused about which weapons were more accurate and what the hell attacks per turn REALLY meant…
- i also found out while playing with "builds" that your AC not only determines your chance to evade enemy attack but that it also LOWERS DAMAGE received. i'm 100% certain and it is verifiable; however i don't know yet if AC also decreases damage from spells or if that is mostly determined by your resistances/elemental defenses. would love to find out. (the devil dice is no help concerning any of this stuff, btw. i find the devil dice to be mostly a novelty and very limited in the info it presents).
anyway, tl;dr the game is great. would play again. i've received a bunch of recommendations about other japanese dungeon-crawlers similar to elminage, such as generation xth, labyrinth of touhou and a few others. they have to be patched into english tho, as none of those have PC releases in english officially. you also have to do stuff to make them run and i'm too lazy… have you played any other blobbers you'd recommend? newish ones i mean, heh, you don't have to go and list wiz1-7 for example.
oh, another annoying thing that i learned the hard way was that resistances/elemental defenses/affliction defenses/affliction disables/spell-school immunities DON'T FREAKING STACK. that's NOT in the manual, btw, i checked!
i also noticed that a lot of ex-skills affect abilities/spells that don't seem like an obvious connection; there are some good synergies under the hood in Elminage. one example is hand of kindness affecting the amount of healing done by potions AND i also verified that it boosts chance of success of the cleric spells that cause instant-death for demon-types. i'm going to have to look at the game files in order to truly verify but i'm pretty sure this is because those spells are coded as reverse-healing abilities. just another little example of something sorely needed for the wikia. in fact, i'm gonna go edit that thing right now.
EDIT: another discovery: the Spirit Pact ex-skill which boosts damage done by the Elemental spells from the Mage spell school also boost the damage/percentage-of-DPS added to melee weapons which have an elemental attack attribute. i'd have to check the game files to truly verify this but i'm like 95% sure of this; did a lot of testing and the differences in damage output were noticeable and repeatable.
i think this makes Spirit Pact much better than Magic Essence (nullifies resistances) for a Samurai-type (the spell-sword archetype). a bishop/hybrid-caster most definitely benefits more from Magic Essence, as that is essential for landing status afflictions on enemies (they have high resistances, duh); but for straight up nuking spirit pact does more "DPS" than the same elemental spell cast through a resistance-nullification. the samurai example is the prime choice for this because then you can also enchant their melee weaponry with elemental attack attributes and have them benefit there as well.
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The info about selling an enchanted item and re-buying it is great! Very good to know and will help a lot, so thanks! You can also sell an item like an Air Seed to the shop and then re-buy it, and it will give you 10 minutes of air rather than a lower number of minutes when you crafted it.
The number of times a single attack hits is based on the Attack Rate of the weapon. An item like the Thief's mace - Stampy Stamp - has an Attack Rate of 5, so most times when the attack hits, it's going to do more than one hit and do extra damage. So, a weapon with a lower damage value can actually do much more damage based on its Attack Rate.
Side note, but there is an Alchemist spell that is a monster of a spell. It increases your party's Attack Rate and it's stackable, so if you want to dispatch a lot of high HP monsters, just cast that spell a few times and all your attacks will be hitting several times and doing big time damage.
You should provide us all with more info on similar games, since I'm not aware of *too* many games that are similar, at least not on PC. I have played Class of Heroes on PSP, and it's really a nice and challenging "blobber" style dungeon-crawler, where the characters are actually created students from a battle university, and the tutorial in the game is different classes you take, etc. It plays on the whole student thing and really is quite cool, but I have to play more to get a better feel for it. I am intrigued by it, for sure.
Another game on PSP is Unchained Blades. This is a more story-heavy dungeon-crawler and feels a bit like a first-person JRPG. Of course, there is endless depth and tactical choices to make, including a huge sphere grid for developing your characters, recruitment of monsters to join your party, towns and a world map, etc. Pretty cool. Again, haven't played *too* much of it yet, but it seems promising.
When it comes to blobbers like Elminage Gothic, I prefer more of a dungeon-crawl/gameplay extravaganza rather than a story-heavy game. You can also try a game for DS called Etrian Odyssey, which supposedly is a very challenging and "hardcore" dungeon-crawler, similar to the Elminage series. Elminage also has Elminage Original on the PSP, and that of course is very similar to Elminage Gothic and will be worth playing.
Great tip on the Spirit Pact as well. A Samurai with that skill would be deadly if it works as you say it does. Also, don't overlook Summoning in the game. It is worthwhile to grind to summon certain monsters. I summoned a Frost Giant in my playthrough and he is quite deadly. I love how they add a 7th slot to the party for the summon and you can get *really* creative with your Summons. For example, you can summon something simple like an Emperor Bird that does all sorts of tricky status ailments on your foes, or go for raw power like a Giant character, or even go for a beheading, ninja-type character like a Red Hood. The possibilities are endless and Summoning is really a game within the game itself. Fun stuff.
The number of times a single attack hits is based on the Attack Rate of the weapon. An item like the Thief's mace - Stampy Stamp - has an Attack Rate of 5, so most times when the attack hits, it's going to do more than one hit and do extra damage. So, a weapon with a lower damage value can actually do much more damage based on its Attack Rate.
Side note, but there is an Alchemist spell that is a monster of a spell. It increases your party's Attack Rate and it's stackable, so if you want to dispatch a lot of high HP monsters, just cast that spell a few times and all your attacks will be hitting several times and doing big time damage.
You should provide us all with more info on similar games, since I'm not aware of *too* many games that are similar, at least not on PC. I have played Class of Heroes on PSP, and it's really a nice and challenging "blobber" style dungeon-crawler, where the characters are actually created students from a battle university, and the tutorial in the game is different classes you take, etc. It plays on the whole student thing and really is quite cool, but I have to play more to get a better feel for it. I am intrigued by it, for sure.
Another game on PSP is Unchained Blades. This is a more story-heavy dungeon-crawler and feels a bit like a first-person JRPG. Of course, there is endless depth and tactical choices to make, including a huge sphere grid for developing your characters, recruitment of monsters to join your party, towns and a world map, etc. Pretty cool. Again, haven't played *too* much of it yet, but it seems promising.
When it comes to blobbers like Elminage Gothic, I prefer more of a dungeon-crawl/gameplay extravaganza rather than a story-heavy game. You can also try a game for DS called Etrian Odyssey, which supposedly is a very challenging and "hardcore" dungeon-crawler, similar to the Elminage series. Elminage also has Elminage Original on the PSP, and that of course is very similar to Elminage Gothic and will be worth playing.
Great tip on the Spirit Pact as well. A Samurai with that skill would be deadly if it works as you say it does. Also, don't overlook Summoning in the game. It is worthwhile to grind to summon certain monsters. I summoned a Frost Giant in my playthrough and he is quite deadly. I love how they add a 7th slot to the party for the summon and you can get *really* creative with your Summons. For example, you can summon something simple like an Emperor Bird that does all sorts of tricky status ailments on your foes, or go for raw power like a Giant character, or even go for a beheading, ninja-type character like a Red Hood. The possibilities are endless and Summoning is really a game within the game itself. Fun stuff.
It's old, but is relevant and was never answered. Elminage Gothic is more a refined Wiz5 clone than a Wiz3 clone, it also has some elements of the later Wiz games (like advanced classes not just being better in every way) and some unique elements.
The life gains work the same as they always worked in the series. Characters gain hit dice, when you gain a level every hit dice is regenerated. If the result is equal or less than your current life + 1 you gain 1 life, if higher you gain the difference.
Which means if you have 1d10 HD and 3 life at level 1, level 2 will most likely result in a large gain since 2d10 is almost certainly higher than 4.
Elminage Gothic deviates from the formula in that instead of class being what determines HD size, Con/Vit determines bonus, and race just slightly modifies Con/Vit race is actually the PRIMARY factor, eclipsing even class (very obvious when your Dragonnewt casters have significantly higher life than your Halfling thieves and the same life as your Dwarven melees).
If you want exact numbers I don't have them, but this is very observable and supported by the wiki.
The life gains work the same as they always worked in the series. Characters gain hit dice, when you gain a level every hit dice is regenerated. If the result is equal or less than your current life + 1 you gain 1 life, if higher you gain the difference.
Which means if you have 1d10 HD and 3 life at level 1, level 2 will most likely result in a large gain since 2d10 is almost certainly higher than 4.
Elminage Gothic deviates from the formula in that instead of class being what determines HD size, Con/Vit determines bonus, and race just slightly modifies Con/Vit race is actually the PRIMARY factor, eclipsing even class (very obvious when your Dragonnewt casters have significantly higher life than your Halfling thieves and the same life as your Dwarven melees).
If you want exact numbers I don't have them, but this is very observable and supported by the wiki.
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