Fallout 4 - Should Be Game of the Year

[zahratustra]

I'm really curious why Beth decided to skimp on F4 graphics. TW3 had much smaller budget yet CDPR managed to release a very good looking open world game. Could ESO be the cause? And if not ESO then what?

 

[JDR13]

I don't think the budget for TW3 was much smaller than FO4 if it was indeed smaller at all.

 

[Stingray]

The Witcher 3's was supposedly $81M which is about the same as Skyrim's, so it's safe to assume that Fallout 4 had (at least) a little bigger budget than Witcher 3 (unless all that money from Skyrim sales had to be diverted to ESO…)

Still, that money goes a hell of a lot farther in Poland than in Maryland.

 

[Stingray]

From what I could find in a few minutes on Google, it seems the average US game developer gets paid almost double the overall European average, and almost 5X the Polish average.

 

[BoboTheMighty]

Eh, probably they didn't want to push Gamebryo even further. Or laziness, to some extent...why do weapons disappear when holstering them?
Odd considering they've had nothing but time and money on their hands, and announced it when it was practically finished.
Makes you wonder what this would be like with the same amount of time that Obsidian had with NV.

 

[Aubrielle]

From what I could find in a few minutes on Google, it seems the average US game developer gets paid almost double the overall European average, and almost 5X the Polish average.

I wonder why Polish and other European studios can produce games as good as TW3 while American AAA developers produce games that don't look, play or function as well (I trust I don't need to give any examples)? I wonder if stockholders and investors have anything to do with it? When investors are involved, they stick their hands into the mess, they micromanage, and they shove the game out the door half-finished so they can hurry up and reap their profits. Corporatism seems like it's ruining game design in America.

Well…and laziness.

 

[JDR13]

rune_74 is definitely not going to like that comment.

 

[Aubrielle]

rune_74 is definitely not going to like that comment.

Haha…probably not. >.> All I can say is that the games I had in mind were half-baked FPS crap from EA and Ubisoft. Games like Fallout 4 weren't really in the front of my mind...

 

[rune_74]

I wonder why Polish and other European studios can produce games as good as TW3 while American AAA developers produce games that don't look, play or function as well (I trust I don't need to give any examples)? I wonder if stockholders and investors have anything to do with it? When investors are involved, they stick their hands into the mess, they micromanage, and they shove the game out the door half-finished so they can hurry up and reap their profits. Corporatism seems like it's ruining game design in America.

Well…and laziness.

Most European games are average in quality….there are some gems like the gothic series, risen etc….Witcher of course…but on average that isn't the norm. If anything you get a lot of flawed games out of Europe especially eastern Europe. If you wonder why smaller budgets can make decent games that look good it's because they pay a helluva lot less for programmers and artists…

I think you are in denial if you can't see that…the majority of the top games are made in north America at this point…not even Japan is as relevant anymore. I think even European games have topped Japan at this point.

Edit: before JDR jumps all over this saying AH-HAH...I buy and play a lot of euro games...however I don't see them as this huge leap of quality over north America...

 

[Stingray]

I think you are in denial if you can't see that…the majority of the top games are made in north America at this point…

Well, Aubrielle was only talking about AAA games, and if we're talking about RPG's, the only AAA RPG's I can think of even worth talking about that are made in North America are the stuff from Bethesda and Bioware. Neither of which I'm too impressed by in recent years. Obsidian is still around but they haven't even done an AAA RPG in over 5 years…unless you're going to count Stick of Truth.

Granted, I can't name many outside North America either, I guess the real problem is that AAA RPG's are barely even made anymore. I suppose Aubrielle was not talking about just RPGs.

 

[rune_74]

Well, Aubrielle was only talking about AAA games, and if we're talking about RPG's, the only AAA RPG's I can think of even worth talking about that are made in North America are the stuff from Bethesda and Bioware. Neither of which I'm too impressed by in recent years. Obsidian is still around but they haven't even done an AAA RPG in over 5 years…unless you're going to count Stick of Truth.

Granted, I can't name many outside North America either, I guess the real problem is that AAA RPG's are barely even made anymore. I suppose Aubrielle was not talking about just RPGs.

I can't think of one RPG out of Europe that comes close to the witcher 3 at all...I think the witcher 3 is as good as the north American AAA rpg's easily, with parts that are better. It really reminds me of a normal AAA game, and it is to be honest, it isn't a budget title that somehow was made to be awesome. They spent a lot of money to make that.

Aurgyably, my top company recently has been naughty dog for non rpg's....they last released the last of us....simple amazing. I am currently playing through the uncharted collection which is really good...not rpg's but a AAA studio based out of California....

I don't think it matters where the game is made, I think the mighty dollar goes a lot farther in some countries then north America so it is an advantage, but I don't think there is a difference in developer skill between the two.

 

[Aubrielle]

I don't think it matters where the game is made, I think the mighty dollar goes a lot farther in some countries then north America so it is an advantage, but I don't think there is a difference in developer skill between the two.

Developer skill? Certainly not. My (main) argument was that corporatism (investors/stockholders) does a lot to kill game design, passion, art, gameplay, and functionality, and that might be a problem that's worse in America than anywhere else. That developers in other countries are more free to make quality titles without investors messing them up before they even launch.

And that's why some of the best RPG's (in my opinion) in recent years have come from Kickstarter…Pillars, Wasteland 2, Divinity Original Sin, etc. There's no stockholders.

 

[rune_74]

Developer skill? Certainly not. My (main) argument was that corporatism (investors/stockholders) does a lot to kill game design, passion, art, gameplay, and functionality, and that might be a problem that's worse in America than anywhere else. That developers in other countries are more free to make quality titles without investors messing them up before they even launch.

Maybe, but what quality titles are you talking about? The witcher 3 is the only AAA rpg out of there I can think of....

 

[Aubrielle]

Maybe, but what quality titles are you talking about? The witcher 3 is the only AAA rpg out of there I can think of….

I didn't mean any game in particular. I was more talking about the climate.

Though...Legends of Eisenwald (Russian, right?) was definitely what I'd call a quality title.

 

[Archangel]

Underrail is from Serbia, certainly a better game than Fo4.

 

[rune_74]

I didn't mean any game in particular. I was more talking about the climate.

Though…Legends of Eisenwald (Russian, right?) was definitely what I'd call a quality title.

HmmI have this one....haven't put much time into it....what I did though made me think good but flawed? I have to investigate this one more.

As to Underrail being better then fallout 4, well....as a turn based isometric stat driven game it is better at that for sure...for a 3d open world game it is not. Different styles of games, comparing apples to oranges.

What is this fascination with making everything have to compete like that?

 

[Aubrielle]

HmmI have this one….haven't put much time into it….what I did though made me think good but flawed? I have to investigate this one more.

If you played it before launch (as I did originally - early access), yeah, it (obviously) had flaws. But now that it's launched…it really shines. It's amazing. A lot of people have had problems with its low-fantasy combat system but I think if you take it as a whole package and see it as part of Aterdux's vision instead of as a flaw, it's a truly memorable game.

 

[luj1]

Underrail is from Serbia, certainly a better game than Fo4.

Made by one guy in his room…… also Legend of Grimrock I-II….. 4 guys in a basement in Finland….I think I see a pattern there….

 

[luj1]

As to Underrail being better then fallout 4, well….as a turn based isometric stat driven game it is better at that for sure…for a 3d open world game it is not.

Different styles of games, comparing apples to oranges.

Youre the one who is comparing apples to oranges.. Underrail is a better RPG but FO4 is a better 3D game? wtf? Underrail is not 3d. That's like saying Underrail is a better isometric game than Fallout 4. You can have RPG done in 2d, 3d or whatever

 

[Drithius]

Been playing FO4 a lot. It's fun but suffers from Bethesdaness… that feeling that always crops up for me, without fail, with there being no consequences/effects for actions taken in the grand scheme of the game. One more batch of raiders, supermutants, ghouls… they all blur together in the end and you're left feeling pretty uninvolved in the game.

But I'm still having fun for the moment… it's just not very gratifying - as I expected from the outset.