RPGWatch - Game of the Year 2022 and Most Promising RPG 2023 Vote

[Couchpotato]

I've almost finished Pentiment now and I'm kind of glad I didn't vote for it. While it is a good game the CRPG elements are minimal, it is basically a Virtual Novel with some adventure game elements.

Well Pentiment does have some RPG elements but it is most certainly is not a role playing game. Even Josh Saywer the games director clarified that when it was announced.

Pentiment plays much more like Night in the Woods, Oxenfree, or Mutazione with light RPG elements and a branching narrative. I have huge respect for what Disco Elysium accomplished, but I don't want people to think that Pentiment will play all that similarly.

Once again it's the media calling it an RPG when most sites have no clue anymore.

 

[Redglyph]

Technically, Pentiment is an RPG since it has the necessary ingredients (story, exploration, character). The character doesn't have increasing attributes because it's a small game but there are some choices. So I don't see what else they'd call it except getting creative with something like "historical detective story with RPG elements".

 

[Couchpotato]

Well then I guess modern Tomb Raider and every other game with RPG elements is an RPG then. Really the problem is the genre has been watered down it's facing a identity crisis.

Doesn't help when most games now have quote RPG elements.

Pentiment was a niche game that he wanted to make. This is not a role playing game he even admitted that in interviews. You make some choices but in the end it's not a RPG.

It's a narrative adventure game, interactive visual novel, whatever you want to call it.

If that's an RPG then Telltale games are RPG's.

 

[Redglyph]

It's a narrative adventure game, interactive visual novel, whatever you want to call it.

Have you played it? Because that doesn't feel like an interactive visual novel at all. It's somewhat niche and small, yes, but it gave me the impression of roleplaying a character much more than when I tried Dark Soul and spent more time hack & slashing bosses (and dying) than anything else - and from what I saw of Elden Ring videos, it looked pretty much the same. Yet it's called an RPG and nobody seems to question that, maybe because of the combat.

To me, an adventure game is an RPG stripped of character choices, where you have to solve mysteries to progress. There's a bit of that, but the character attributes and C&C place it in another category IMO.

 

[bjon045]

Have you played it? Because that doesn't feel like an interactive visual novel at all. It's somewhat niche and small, yes, but it gave me the impression of roleplaying a character much more than when I tried Dark Soul and spent more time hack & slashing bosses (and dying) than anything else - and from what I saw of Elden Ring videos, it looked pretty much the same. Yet it's called an RPG and nobody seems to question that, maybe because of the combat.

I played it and feels exactly like a Virtual novel. Yes, you can walk around a bit before triggering the next sequence but quite a few modern VN's that I have played also allow you to do that. But I do agree with you re: Elden Ring. It is what I term an Action RPG and quite far on the spectrum towards Action. I also place Gothic/Risen/Elex in the same category but they have slightly less focus on the action/twitch skills. None of these are what I would of historically classified as a cRPG but these days the label is much looser for sure - all of them do have some cRPG elements without a doubt.

Anyway, I think we are getting a little bit off-track on the topic. I wasn't suggesting it had no place whatsoever on the list but for me personally it was too light on the cRPG elements for me to place it highly on the RPG list for 2022.

 

[HiddenX]

It's really easy: if someone thinks that a game is not RPGish enough, simply don't vote for it.

 

[lackblogger]

I'm still somewhat miffed how so many people haven't even tried Black Geyser yet, that's a game where definitions definitely aren't an issue & it's in a format that most people would have at least tried had it been made by a 'favourite' developer and classed as a 'flawed gem' (cough, Obsidian, Troika, Bioware, Radon Labs, Owlcat etc). It's not like we're awash with Infinity Engine clones to the point where we can't fit one in once a year. It's not even a gargantuan time stealer.

Checking out this month's negative reviews, it's still getting positive negatives, people choosing negative because they can't vote average:

1. "Again, it's not a BAD game, but not very good." - This reviewer didn't find anything memorable in 8.5 hours of playtime. Well, I found plenty memorable, but then I guess memorability is subjective. Memorable stuff can also be bad stuff as well, so they didn't remember anything really bad it seems.

2. "3/5 not bad nor good." - This reviewer was disappointed by the lack of Shakespearian levels of quality writing. Lol. Ironically, their review read like gibberish, of course.

3. "It was an ok game but not what I was expecting. I do not regret playing it." - This reviewer couldn't bare the loading times. Fair enough, but plenty of RPGWatch GotYs have very poor loading times, it's not, by itself, a reason to deny something recognition in this regard.

I'm not trying to champion the game for GotY, I wouldn't expect it to win even if lots of people had played it, but I wouldn't deny it a top 3 place, and I think it'd be insane if it was outside the top 5.

It's not like it's some obscure indy with 'interesting' systems and graphics that is specifically designed to be niche, it's pretty much the kind of game everyone usually plays here, even if it's not the ultimate perfection of the Kickstarter era.

You know, it's like people who played Gothic probably played and found some enjoyment in Risen. People who played and enjoyed Fallout probably found some enjoyment in ATOM. And yet people who played and enjoyed Infinity Engine games and Pillars of Eternity wont even try Black Geyser? Are not even interested to try?

Weird. Unusual.

Anyway, just my rant-like 2 cents in reaction to the idea that such games as God of War have the chance to rank higher in the RPG of the year award.

 

[Stingray]

I voted Black Geyser #3, even though I haven't played it yet I only played one 2022 game so far (KOTC2), so my other two choices were just based on preferred style of game / mechanics.

Anyway, BG is in my still in my backlog, probably coming up soon. If they hadn't announced an upcoming DLC, I probably would have already started it.

 

[Redglyph]

I played it and feels exactly like a Virtual novel. Yes, you can walk around a bit before triggering the next sequence but quite a few modern VN's that I have played also allow you to do that.

It's a little off-topic but it's always interesting to see what people accept as an RPG and the closely related gneres. The description of visual novel I found is "combine a textual narrative with static or animated illustrations and a varying degree of interactivity", so like an adventure game with even less freedom and no real "challenge" to meet, more like a passive experience. But Pentiment lets you walk anywhere in the 2D game world all the time (within day/night constraints), interact a little with it and talk with the NPCs to solve problems like in any RPG.

Maybe modern visual novels blur the line with RPGs, I'm not playing that genre often. I suppose Pentiment feels like that compared to other RPGs because of the 2D graphics and the lack of combat, but it seems to me that it's more involved, goal-oriented and there's more freedom than a novel or even an adventure game.

I see there's no "RPG" tag in Steam, however, and on a graph I'd expect it to be sitting close to the border or at the intersection with adventure games and so on.

 

[wolfgrimdark]

Based on what I have seen Pentiment seems borderline with a choose your own path narrative game. It's also clear there is no concrete definition anymore. I have my own idea of what an RPG is and that is the only definition I will ever use. When I read a review or read up on some game I determine how close it is to my own idea of an RPG. On the other hand I don't limit myself to just RPG either although what I might say is not an RPG to myself others might say is one. As Couch pointed out its been watered down by the industry.

 

[purpleblob]

I voted Black Geyser #3, even though I haven't played it yet

Why would you vote for a game you haven't even played...?

 

[Stingray]

Why would you vote for a game you haven't even played...?

lackblogger explained it in a different thread: https://rpgwatch.com/forum/threads/rpgwatch-goty-2022-pre-selection.54450/#post-1061704370

But in my words, I know the type of games I'm interested in playing, plus I've watched videos and read reviews of them. No reason not to vote for them just because I haven't had a chance to play them yet. I think it's silly that someone would impose such a requirement upon himself. Now, if RPGWatch's voting was explicitly asking you to only rate games you've played (as the Codex voting does), then of course I'd honor that.

By the way, I don't expect Black Geyser to be spectacular either. 2022 was just really bad.

 

[purpleblob]

But in my words, I know the type of games I'm interested in playing, plus I've watched videos and read reviews of them. No reason not to vote for them just because I haven't had a chance to play them yet. I think it's silly that someone would impose such a requirement upon himself. Now, if RPGWatch's voting was explicitly asking you to only rate games you've played (as the Codex voting does), then of course I'd honor that.

But expectation can be different to real experience. For example, I thought I won't enjoy Disco Elysium and Wildermyth but I did. On the other hand, there are some games I thought I'd enjoy but I didn't.

Its your call, of course, but I just think its weird to vote for something you haven't actually experienced.

 

[lackblogger]

But expectation can be different to real experience. For example, I thought I won't enjoy Disco Elysium and Wildermyth but I did. On the other hand, there are some games I thought I'd enjoy but I didn't.

Its your call, of course, but I just think its weird to vote for something you haven't actually experienced.

It's more an issue when people vote negatively for something they haven't played yet, and since The RPGCodex puts a value on negative voting in their polls, they instil an atmosphere that it's immoral to vote for something you haven't played. And they need to do this because the prevailing culture there is to shit on things.

RPGWatch is different because we're only interested in assessing which games made people happy. We don't care if 50 people loathed Dragon Age 2, if 10 people really liked it then it charts.

And let's say, for argument's sake, Dragon Age 2 came out on 1st December. We all know and are accepting of the fact that this site has a number of absolutely rabid Dragon Age fans. They could release a 3 hour game of a bunch of NPCs nattering to each other and then you kill a dragon & it would get votes at the end of the year.

So 1 month isn't a very long time for the rabid fans to all have played it. One or two of them could well be just too busy over December to even watch one episode of Jar Jar Binxs the Musical, a Disney+ exclusive serialisation, let alone a 3 hour Dragon Age game.

But it's still blindingly obvious that they will be playing it relatively soon and will have voted for it if they'd had the time. So, because this site caters to everyone, from casuals to pro-gamers, it stands to reason that leeway is acceptable for people to vote in advance of what they plan to play and very likely enjoy.

Whatever point in time you schedule for a vote, there will always be people who are nearly ready to play something but not quite there yet, and as such any too-strict method of evaluation will disenfranchise someone from the process.

Since our vote is about what made us happy this year, then, for sure, the happiness of hope and expectation of a game that was released this year has indeed provided someone with happiness, vote-worthy happiness.

Sure, if in the unlikely event of them finding that they regret the vote down the line somewhere, that's certainly a thing, but it still doesn't eliminate the objective fact that the game provided them with a lot of happiness in its year of release.

As someone who at one stage left this site and preferred to post on the codex for a while, this is all probably a mindset that would indeed seem a bit alien to you, but I hope this horribly long post of dreadful mansplainin' at least allows you to solve the "I don't understand why" aspect of your confusion, regardless if it changes any minds or enables you to approach the two sites differently.

 

[Farflame]

Technically, Pentiment is an RPG since it has the necessary ingredients (story, exploration, character).

So its adventure game.


Regarding the vote: dont forget one of the best games of 2022: Expeditions Rome

 

[Redglyph]

So its adventure game.

Only if you decide to ignore what I just wrote about it.

We don't have the RPG tool anymore here, but these were the criteria, with combat as a 4th optional feature, if I remember correctly.

 

[Couchpotato]

Only if you decide to ignore what I just wrote about it.

We don't have the RPG tool anymore here, but these were the criteria, with combat as a 4th optional feature, if I remember correctly.

Yeah the RPG tool was killed in the server migration due to scripting if I recall. As for Steam like you mentioned above the RPG tag has essentially become a casualty of marketing.

The same with developers saying my game is inspired by add whatever RPG but isn't.

 

[gamhuin]

Like every year you can vote for the RPGWatch Game of the Year 2022 and the Most Promising RPG of 2023:

For both categories you can select the first, second and third place. The famous <none> game can be selected, too.

Vote here!

(until 7. January 2023)

More information.

Did the poll close early? Says, "Sorry, but this contents has finished and is closed now."

 

[Redglyph]

Yeah the RPG tool was killed in the server migration due to scripting if I recall. As for Steam like you mentioned above the RPG tag has essentially become a casualty of marketing.

The same with developers saying my game is inspired by add whatever RPG but isn't.

Yeah, RIP the tool

Aren't those tags mostly "voted" by users on Steam? I think the developer or publisher gives a few tags then the most added ones are shown, but I'm not sure if they're shown there or only when looking at the details by clicking on the "+". Anyway, they're probably as scattered as the opinions here.

 

[greywolf00]

Forbidden West was definitely GOTY for me, but since that didn't release on PC it's slim pickings for me. Elex is the first PB series I can't get into, and I still can't keep from getting bored with FromSoftware games. The Last Oricru would be my #3, but it wasn't on the list. Persona 5 suffers from the PC release being so far behind the console version I played.

1 Symphony of War: The Nephilim Saga
2 Persona 5 Royal
3 Gordian Quest


1 Last Epoch
2 Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader
3 Eiyuden Chronicle: Hundred Heroes